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New terrestrial arthropods
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Topic Started: Jul 27 2017, 07:24 PM (899 Views)
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HangingThief
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Jul 29 2017, 01:19 PM
Post #16
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- kusanagi
- Jul 29 2017, 11:18 AM
My thoughts for stage 1 were of terrestrial spiders that went partially herbivorous by sucking plant juices. The example of sucking bugs was stage 2 should a move to raptorialism be requested. Now of sourse plants are sessile so predatory shieldbugs went overnight from herbivores to raptorials. But my understanding is most pycogonids are like most nudibranchs dietary specialists which is why they are difficult in aquaria. Then it would be easier to jump to macroalgae, and then to plants, and then whatever is ingesting the same kind of plants (happened at least 2ce in insects). Again, shield bugs and other predatory hemipterans went from herbivorous to carnivorous, not the other way around. That's a lot easier than going from completely carnivorous to feeding on plant matter with little nutrition. Spiders that feed on plant matter don't suck sap, they feed on growths called beltian bodies found on certain acacias that are intended as food for ants that protect the tree from herbivores. The beltian bodies are high in fat and protein and easy to digest.
I still don't understand why you think going from feeding on cnidarians to feeding on macroalgae is easier than going from cnidarians to mollusks or other animals. Also, I'm guessing that marine macroalgae to terrestrial plants is a much bigger jump than marine invertebrates to terrestrial invertebrates.
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Hey.
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kusanagi
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Jul 29 2017, 01:26 PM
Post #17
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Scorpions including the opiliones share a common ancestor with the other arachnids that was already terrestrial. That LCA looked scorpion/eurypterid type.
Probability of pycogonids or any other arthropod colonising land depends upon ecological, physiological and anatomical constraints. I toyed before with the idea of pycogonids on a warmed Antarctica but I wasnt sure how to get them onto land when they eat only sessile inverts.
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IIGSY
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Jul 29 2017, 01:39 PM
Post #18
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- kusanagi
- Jul 29 2017, 01:26 PM
Scorpions including the opiliones share a common ancestor with the other arachnids that was already terrestrial. That LCA looked scorpion/eurypterid type.
Probability of pycogonids or any other arthropod colonising land depends upon ecological, physiological and anatomical constraints. I toyed before with the idea of pycogonids on a warmed Antarctica but I wasnt sure how to get them onto land when they eat only sessile inverts.
 A terrestrial pycnogonid would have plenty to eat depending on where it lived
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod
ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)
Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.
Quotes "Arthropod respiratory systems aren't really "inefficient", they're just better suited to their body size. It would be quite inefficient for a tiny creature that can easily get all the oxygen it needs through passive diffusion to have a respiratory system that wastes energy on muscles that pump air into sacs. (Hence why lungless salamanders, uniquely miniscule and hyperabundant tetrapods, have ditched their lungs in favor of breathing with their skin and buccal mucous membranes.) But large, active insects already use muscles to pump air in and out of their spiracles, and I don't see why their tracheae couldn't develop pseudo- lungs if other conditions pressured them to grow larger."-HangingTheif
"Considering the lifespans of modern non- insect arthropods (decade-old old millipedes, 50 year old tarantulas, 100+ year old lobsters) I wouldn't be surprised if Arthropleura had a lifespan exceeding that of a large testudine"-HangingTheif
"Humans have a tribal mindset and it's not alien for tribes to war on each other. I mean, look at the atrocities chimpanzee tribes do to each other. Most of people's groupings and big conflicts in history are directly or obliquely manifestations of this tribal mindset."-Sceynyos-yis
"He's the leader of the bunch You know his Coconut Gun is finally back to fire in spurts. His Coconut Gun Can make you smile If he shoots ya it's firing in spurts. His Coconut Gun Is bigger, faster, stronger too! He's the gun member of the Coconut Crew! HUH!
C.G.! Coconut Gun! C.G.! Co-Coconut Gun! Shoot yourself with a Coconut Gun! HUH!"-Kamineigh
"RIP, rest in Peytoia."-Little
"In Summary: Piss on Lovecraft's racist grave by making lewds of Cthulhu and Nyarlathotep.
Then eat arby's and embrace the void."-Kamineigh
"Dougal Dixon rule 34."-Sayornis
Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups
In honor of the greatest clade of all time
More pictures
Other cool things
All African countries can fit into Brazil
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IIGSY
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Jul 30 2017, 05:01 PM
Post #19
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Could a cladoceran become terrestrial? They don't appear to have any legs, only antennae.
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod
ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)
Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.
Quotes "Arthropod respiratory systems aren't really "inefficient", they're just better suited to their body size. It would be quite inefficient for a tiny creature that can easily get all the oxygen it needs through passive diffusion to have a respiratory system that wastes energy on muscles that pump air into sacs. (Hence why lungless salamanders, uniquely miniscule and hyperabundant tetrapods, have ditched their lungs in favor of breathing with their skin and buccal mucous membranes.) But large, active insects already use muscles to pump air in and out of their spiracles, and I don't see why their tracheae couldn't develop pseudo- lungs if other conditions pressured them to grow larger."-HangingTheif
"Considering the lifespans of modern non- insect arthropods (decade-old old millipedes, 50 year old tarantulas, 100+ year old lobsters) I wouldn't be surprised if Arthropleura had a lifespan exceeding that of a large testudine"-HangingTheif
"Humans have a tribal mindset and it's not alien for tribes to war on each other. I mean, look at the atrocities chimpanzee tribes do to each other. Most of people's groupings and big conflicts in history are directly or obliquely manifestations of this tribal mindset."-Sceynyos-yis
"He's the leader of the bunch You know his Coconut Gun is finally back to fire in spurts. His Coconut Gun Can make you smile If he shoots ya it's firing in spurts. His Coconut Gun Is bigger, faster, stronger too! He's the gun member of the Coconut Crew! HUH!
C.G.! Coconut Gun! C.G.! Co-Coconut Gun! Shoot yourself with a Coconut Gun! HUH!"-Kamineigh
"RIP, rest in Peytoia."-Little
"In Summary: Piss on Lovecraft's racist grave by making lewds of Cthulhu and Nyarlathotep.
Then eat arby's and embrace the void."-Kamineigh
"Dougal Dixon rule 34."-Sayornis
Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups
In honor of the greatest clade of all time
More pictures
Other cool things
All African countries can fit into Brazil
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kusanagi
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Jul 30 2017, 05:32 PM
Post #20
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Strange things happen in leaf litter. I imagine those second antennae went from swimming appendages to walking legs.
A terrestrial stomatopod would be nicer. They practice brood care too so I could see them digging nurseries for their young and maybe even a kind of eusociality with workers and soldiers and queens. Think how large hymenopteran brains are if you will.
Edited by kusanagi, Jul 30 2017, 05:38 PM.
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IIGSY
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Jul 30 2017, 05:35 PM
Post #21
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- kusanagi
- Jul 30 2017, 05:32 PM
A terrestrial stomatopod would be nicer. They practice brood care too so I could see them digging nurseries for their young and maybe even a kind of eusociality with workers and soldiers and queens. Think how large hymenopteran brains are if you will. Could the crushing claw work on land?
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod
ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)
Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.
Quotes "Arthropod respiratory systems aren't really "inefficient", they're just better suited to their body size. It would be quite inefficient for a tiny creature that can easily get all the oxygen it needs through passive diffusion to have a respiratory system that wastes energy on muscles that pump air into sacs. (Hence why lungless salamanders, uniquely miniscule and hyperabundant tetrapods, have ditched their lungs in favor of breathing with their skin and buccal mucous membranes.) But large, active insects already use muscles to pump air in and out of their spiracles, and I don't see why their tracheae couldn't develop pseudo- lungs if other conditions pressured them to grow larger."-HangingTheif
"Considering the lifespans of modern non- insect arthropods (decade-old old millipedes, 50 year old tarantulas, 100+ year old lobsters) I wouldn't be surprised if Arthropleura had a lifespan exceeding that of a large testudine"-HangingTheif
"Humans have a tribal mindset and it's not alien for tribes to war on each other. I mean, look at the atrocities chimpanzee tribes do to each other. Most of people's groupings and big conflicts in history are directly or obliquely manifestations of this tribal mindset."-Sceynyos-yis
"He's the leader of the bunch You know his Coconut Gun is finally back to fire in spurts. His Coconut Gun Can make you smile If he shoots ya it's firing in spurts. His Coconut Gun Is bigger, faster, stronger too! He's the gun member of the Coconut Crew! HUH!
C.G.! Coconut Gun! C.G.! Co-Coconut Gun! Shoot yourself with a Coconut Gun! HUH!"-Kamineigh
"RIP, rest in Peytoia."-Little
"In Summary: Piss on Lovecraft's racist grave by making lewds of Cthulhu and Nyarlathotep.
Then eat arby's and embrace the void."-Kamineigh
"Dougal Dixon rule 34."-Sayornis
Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups
In honor of the greatest clade of all time
More pictures
Other cool things
All African countries can fit into Brazil
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kusanagi
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Jul 30 2017, 05:39 PM
Post #22
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- Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
- Jul 30 2017, 05:35 PM
- kusanagi
- Jul 30 2017, 05:32 PM
A terrestrial stomatopod would be nicer. They practice brood care too so I could see them digging nurseries for their young and maybe even a kind of eusociality with workers and soldiers and queens. Think how large hymenopteran brains are if you will.
Could the crushing claw work on land? Spearing and bludgeoning ought to. Think of mantids.
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IIGSY
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Jul 30 2017, 05:42 PM
Post #23
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- kusanagi
- Jul 30 2017, 05:39 PM
- Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
- Jul 30 2017, 05:35 PM
- kusanagi
- Jul 30 2017, 05:32 PM
A terrestrial stomatopod would be nicer. They practice brood care too so I could see them digging nurseries for their young and maybe even a kind of eusociality with workers and soldiers and queens. Think how large hymenopteran brains are if you will.
Could the crushing claw work on land?
Spearing and bludgeoning ought to. Think of mantids. The "mantis claw" has evolved many times in arthropods. Pretty cool, isn't it?
But seriously, what about terrestrial cladocera?
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod
ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)
Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.
Quotes "Arthropod respiratory systems aren't really "inefficient", they're just better suited to their body size. It would be quite inefficient for a tiny creature that can easily get all the oxygen it needs through passive diffusion to have a respiratory system that wastes energy on muscles that pump air into sacs. (Hence why lungless salamanders, uniquely miniscule and hyperabundant tetrapods, have ditched their lungs in favor of breathing with their skin and buccal mucous membranes.) But large, active insects already use muscles to pump air in and out of their spiracles, and I don't see why their tracheae couldn't develop pseudo- lungs if other conditions pressured them to grow larger."-HangingTheif
"Considering the lifespans of modern non- insect arthropods (decade-old old millipedes, 50 year old tarantulas, 100+ year old lobsters) I wouldn't be surprised if Arthropleura had a lifespan exceeding that of a large testudine"-HangingTheif
"Humans have a tribal mindset and it's not alien for tribes to war on each other. I mean, look at the atrocities chimpanzee tribes do to each other. Most of people's groupings and big conflicts in history are directly or obliquely manifestations of this tribal mindset."-Sceynyos-yis
"He's the leader of the bunch You know his Coconut Gun is finally back to fire in spurts. His Coconut Gun Can make you smile If he shoots ya it's firing in spurts. His Coconut Gun Is bigger, faster, stronger too! He's the gun member of the Coconut Crew! HUH!
C.G.! Coconut Gun! C.G.! Co-Coconut Gun! Shoot yourself with a Coconut Gun! HUH!"-Kamineigh
"RIP, rest in Peytoia."-Little
"In Summary: Piss on Lovecraft's racist grave by making lewds of Cthulhu and Nyarlathotep.
Then eat arby's and embrace the void."-Kamineigh
"Dougal Dixon rule 34."-Sayornis
Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups
In honor of the greatest clade of all time
More pictures
Other cool things
All African countries can fit into Brazil
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| |
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kusanagi
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Jul 30 2017, 05:47 PM
Post #24
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All I know about terrestrial water fleas is a few species inhabit leaf litter. Sorry if I don't know more about them but I imagine they are constrained on land. They must be functionally bipedal for a start.
Edited by kusanagi, Jul 30 2017, 05:48 PM.
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Talenkauen
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Jul 30 2017, 05:54 PM
Post #25
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Perpetually paranoid iguanodont
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You never elaborated about the supposed "Terrestrial Squat-Lobster". I'd like to know what species it is.
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kusanagi
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Jul 30 2017, 05:59 PM
Post #26
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- Talenkauen Spec
- Jul 30 2017, 05:54 PM
You never elaborated about the supposed "Terrestrial Squat-Lobster". I'd like to know what species it is. I don't remember the species OTOH but the genus is Aegla and I remember trying to source some and noticing some sources listed the genus as terrestrial as well as freshwater. (Amphibious?)
The cladocercans live in freshwater leaf litter as it happens. I thought the idea of terrestrial cladicercans was odd but there can be terrestrial sponges in rainforests, so...
Edited by kusanagi, Jul 30 2017, 06:50 PM.
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IIGSY
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Sep 7 2017, 03:48 PM
Post #27
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A huntsman spider that wastes time on the internet because it has nothing better to do
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- kusanagi
- Jul 30 2017, 05:59 PM
but there can be terrestrial sponges in rainforests, so... Terrestrial sponges?
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod
ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)
Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.
Quotes "Arthropod respiratory systems aren't really "inefficient", they're just better suited to their body size. It would be quite inefficient for a tiny creature that can easily get all the oxygen it needs through passive diffusion to have a respiratory system that wastes energy on muscles that pump air into sacs. (Hence why lungless salamanders, uniquely miniscule and hyperabundant tetrapods, have ditched their lungs in favor of breathing with their skin and buccal mucous membranes.) But large, active insects already use muscles to pump air in and out of their spiracles, and I don't see why their tracheae couldn't develop pseudo- lungs if other conditions pressured them to grow larger."-HangingTheif
"Considering the lifespans of modern non- insect arthropods (decade-old old millipedes, 50 year old tarantulas, 100+ year old lobsters) I wouldn't be surprised if Arthropleura had a lifespan exceeding that of a large testudine"-HangingTheif
"Humans have a tribal mindset and it's not alien for tribes to war on each other. I mean, look at the atrocities chimpanzee tribes do to each other. Most of people's groupings and big conflicts in history are directly or obliquely manifestations of this tribal mindset."-Sceynyos-yis
"He's the leader of the bunch You know his Coconut Gun is finally back to fire in spurts. His Coconut Gun Can make you smile If he shoots ya it's firing in spurts. His Coconut Gun Is bigger, faster, stronger too! He's the gun member of the Coconut Crew! HUH!
C.G.! Coconut Gun! C.G.! Co-Coconut Gun! Shoot yourself with a Coconut Gun! HUH!"-Kamineigh
"RIP, rest in Peytoia."-Little
"In Summary: Piss on Lovecraft's racist grave by making lewds of Cthulhu and Nyarlathotep.
Then eat arby's and embrace the void."-Kamineigh
"Dougal Dixon rule 34."-Sayornis
Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups
In honor of the greatest clade of all time
More pictures
Other cool things
All African countries can fit into Brazil
|
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