Large Mesothermic Birds?

Speculative biology is simultaneously a science and form of art in which one speculates on the possibilities of life and evolution. What could the world look like if dinosaurs had never gone extinct? What could alien lifeforms look like? What kinds of plants and animals might exist in the far future? These questions and more are tackled by speculative biologists, and the Speculative Evolution welcomes all relevant ideas, inquiries, and world-building projects alike. With a member base comprising users from across the world, our community is the largest and longest-running place of gathering for speculative biologists on the web.

While unregistered users are able to browse the forum on a basic level, registering an account provides additional forum access not visible to guests as well as the ability to join in discussions and contribute yourself! Registration is free and instantaneous.

Join our community today!

Pages:
1
2
3

Large Mesothermic Birds?; How big can birds get?
Topic Started: Jul 14 2017, 11:20 AM (1,635 Views)
9Weegee	Jul 14 2017, 11:20 AM Post #1
Newborn Posts: 59 Group: Members Member #2,176 Joined: Jun 23, 2017 Gender: Male	I'm making a spec Evo project called the Lateoic, and the dominant species is birds. I want to make a large type of bird, but I need to know how big flightless birds can get.

Replies:
Fazaner	Jul 14 2017, 05:15 PM Post #16
Шашава птичурина Posts: 413 Group: Members Member #2,016 Joined: Nov 13, 2016 Gender: Male Area of expertise: Future Evolution Nationality: Serbian Favorite Quote: Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein Also known as: As long as I'm not offended, call me whatever you want	Since you got carried out by rexy discussion, let me remind you of original question, mega birds. Just like dragon said birds lack tails for balance, and that resulted in them moving hips forward to balance it. Now there is a deferent solution, change in posture of the animal. Therizinosaurs was a large animals, but unlike their relatives had shorter tails, they compensated it with more upright posture, like in picture i put down there, where center of mass is above hips thus maintaining balance. Of course bird would have to shift themselves even more vertically in order to achieve balance but i don't see it impossible. As for feathers, there are a lot reasons for bird to keep having it, it is a protection from sun rays, in cold environments it can warm animal, important for sexual display of many birds, and i am pretty sure there are more of it. Yes IIGS dragontunders made them here are they. One is displaying my idea, but i wanted to give a actual animal for example first. For the thing about hollow bones and size i realy dont know.
	Projects (they are not dead, just updated realy slowly, feel free to comment): -World after plague After a horrible plague unleashed by man nature slowly recovers. Now 36 million years later we take a look at this weird and wonderful world. -Galaxy on fire. They have left their home to get out of war. They had no idea what awaits them. My Deviant art profile, if you're curious. Before you get offended or butthurt read this -If something i say sounds racists or sexists, I AM NEITHER OF THOSE, it is language or cultural barrier, if you get offended please note me of that so i may correct myself. -English is not my native language, so gramar mistakes are expected, I will only accept your corrections if mistake makes comment unreadable, or if is something important like project post or com. Don't be a grammar-nazi, people dont like that. -I often use a common terms when writing, so yes I know birds are dinosaurs and that whales are cetaceans, no need to correct me i know that. -Sarcasm is something I commonly use in jokes, and before you get butthurt please check is it my sarcastic joke. -My goal is not to offend anyone, unless somebody is seriously getting on my nerves, and in that case all this is off!


9Weegee	Jul 14 2017, 05:28 PM Post #17
Newborn Posts: 59 Group: Members Member #2,176 Joined: Jun 23, 2017 Gender: Male	The scale impression's locations are known. The scales on the back were on the top of the animal, and the neck was found around the center of the neck And yes, my original plan was to move them in a more upright position. Also, keep in mind that the maximum size would be around 45 feet tall, and they have long necks, so yeah Edited by 9Weegee, Jul 14 2017, 05:31 PM.



Gojiratheking106	Jul 14 2017, 05:35 PM Post #18
Newborn Posts: 33 Group: Members Member #2,183 Joined: Jun 30, 2017 Gender: Male Nationality: Spanish	I don't recall the paper mentioning the exact location of the neck impression nor the existence of a back impression. Furthemore, it said that feathers were possible in the back. Anyways: I can see tropical gigabirds becoming scaly, or at least having elephantine skin, maybe with sparse feathers like an elephant or a rhino. However, I'm guessing that, if in the proect climate is like modern day, in northern places they would retain them, like mammoths.



Talenkauen	Jul 14 2017, 05:44 PM Post #19
Perpetually paranoid iguanodont Posts: 615 Group: Members Member #1,645 Joined: Mar 4, 2015 Area of expertise: Alternate Universes Favorite Quote: "Too many people have opinions on things they know nothing about. And the more ignorant they are, the more opinions they have." - Thomas Hildern, Fallout: New Vegas Also known as: The Sea Dumpling	9Weegee Jul 14 2017, 05:28 PM The scale impression's locations are known. The scales on the back were on the top of the animal, and the neck was found around the center of the neck And yes, my original plan was to move them in a more upright position. Also, keep in mind that the maximum size would be around 45 feet tall, and they have long necks, so yeah Those weren't found on the back, they were on the outer part of the illium, part of the upper leg. The legs, face and tail often the first parts of a dinosaur or bird to lose feathers. It doesn't discount at least some form of feathers on the upper back, back of the neck, and on the upper tail. They may have also still had feathers on their arms, at least for some form of display.
	PLEASE NOTE: If I come off as harsh or demanding whilst talking to you, please tell me. I apologize in advance..... UPCOMING PROJECTS: Projects here There are none. I'm not smart enough to make one.


Talenkauen	Jul 14 2017, 05:45 PM Post #20
Perpetually paranoid iguanodont Posts: 615 Group: Members Member #1,645 Joined: Mar 4, 2015 Area of expertise: Alternate Universes Favorite Quote: "Too many people have opinions on things they know nothing about. And the more ignorant they are, the more opinions they have." - Thomas Hildern, Fallout: New Vegas Also known as: The Sea Dumpling
	PLEASE NOTE: If I come off as harsh or demanding whilst talking to you, please tell me. I apologize in advance..... UPCOMING PROJECTS: Projects here There are none. I'm not smart enough to make one.


TAXESbutNano	Jul 14 2017, 05:51 PM Post #21
I'm going back to basics. Posts: 4,340 Group: Members Member #506 Joined: Feb 24, 2011 Gender: Male Nationality: English Favorite Quote: IT'S DJ JAZZY WORM JEFF!!! -JesseCox	I believe the reasoning was that there are scales in all three of the 'integument zones' popularised by Saurian. Assuming the integument zones thing is correct, then the most parsimonious integument of a tyrannosaur with scales on legs, tail, head and body would be to have the whole animal be scaled. I'm personally on the side of the scale impressions being correctly-placed and the integument zones being correct, but there's a lot of room for doubt on either side.



LittleLazyLass	Jul 14 2017, 08:08 PM Post #22
Proud quilt in a bag Posts: 8,639 Group: Global Mods Member #1,463 Joined: Jun 18, 2014 Area of expertise: Alternate Universes Nationality: Sorry, but why do you want to know aboot my nationality, eh? Uh... sorry, that was rude of me. Sorry. Favorite Quote: "you know you're a nerd when you search Wookieepedia for porn" Also known as: You can call me Little; full list of old names found through profile. Gender: Trans Questioning (see link in sig; feminine pronouns)	Quote: First off, the scale impressions are not as small as a "coin". they are larger This is false, they are less than a millimetre, or far smaller than a coin and certainly not visible at a distance. Quote: and the top of the neck The location of the neck integument is not known, it could be the top or bottom. Quote: not only that, but we can also find out that from other tyrannosaurs, with similar patches of scales Is there actually anything properly published on in the literature about these, nevermind properly investigated, instead of undescribed stuff? Andrea Cau has suggested here that the supposed scales might not even be integument and infact just taphonomic artifacts: Quote: That is, the skin imprint at that point shows a bend, suggesting a relative flexibility in the life-jacket, a bend that must have formed when the sediment has stamped against the animal's body. Curiously, the authors report that at the fold level, the skin shows a different coating, contrasting with the greater density of tubercles observed in the other parts (outside the fold) of the skin. This detail is disconcerting: the density and distribution of scuppers is diminished at the level of that fold of the skin. Since it is unlikely that this particular fold of skin (we are in the abdominal area of the animal) was a constant element in the life of that animal but was only a consequence of the general flexibility of the tegument that was accidentally deformed at that point, there are two options alternatives: The bend was casually formed along an area of lesser density of tubercles. Tubercles are not original elements of the skin, but effects of decomposition and subsequent fossilization, partly related to the position and disposition of the skin. The first option seems unlikely. Tubercles are too small and dense to think that they act like a rigid bond that limits the freedom of folding the skin. Moreover, since we are looking at a disarticulated body with bone-bony elements, it is unlikely that fold in fossil is something present in life, persisted in fossil. Therefore, it is suspected that tubercles are a product of post-mortem processes, such as decomposition, dehydration and burial. If this doubt were confirmed, then the tiny irregular and randomly distributed tubercles we observe in the skin of these tyrannosaurids are not to be interpreted as genuine squatting traces, they are not biological structures, but are tafonomic artifacts, conditions linked to processes that, from the death of the 'Animal, they lead to fossil.
	totally not British, b-baka! You like me (Unlike) I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess. Me Forum user Uncanny Gemstar drew what is supposed to be a me. Thanks! Spoiler: click to toggle As they walk in, they're greeted by a small, poorly kept pathway leading to a poorly constructed Japanese-style gate. Behind this, a small field made up of corn, rice, wheat, potatoes, among other plants is contrasted by large piles of books, as well as a few rather out of place looking laptops. Off in the corner, a small woman, with long, striped, and strikingly colorful socks, no shoes, unremarkable denim shorts, a large, fancy black coat, arm warmers, glasses, a tuque, and somewhat unkempt, mid-length blue-and-pink-streaked red hair, is rummaging through a trash bin, located behind a sign saying "employees only". She continues this for a while (walking behind a wall to change her outfit now and then), until one of her visitors coughs. Startled, she looks up, apologizes, and grabs a handful of textbooks and novels before daintily running off to join them. What, you want me to tell you what these mean? Predenterra The (Lost) Lost World The Standing World Read First Clarifications on my sex and gender Sorry if I come off as rude, I don't put much thought into word choice sometimes. I'm also super prone to editing my posts, sometimes multiple times, in the minutes following posting. For the love of god, take my posts from my earlier days on the forum with a grain of salt. I was not particularly knowledgeable or mature back then. Some of them are so cringe-worthy I can't even bring myself to look at them. Words Maybe Great Words Words To Spec By It would have to be something extremely alien, pushing the limits of our imagination. But those are always my favorite kinds of life. ~~The Words of The Xenologist Words To Live By Ignorance is never insulting if you're willing to learn, we're all ignorant about most things. ~~The Words of Lamna Words I Live By Yeah, and even if you don't agree with creationists on that concept, that doesn't mean they can't be decent people. I have friends who are creationist (possibly even young earth) that I get along with fine in general life. I don't think they're right of course, but that doesn't make them intellectual degenerates. ~~The Words of forbidden3 Member Quotes jman123 Ass-breathing fish-lizards? Sounds like a punk rock band Sheather "Holy fucking shit a toilet paper roll! Our favorite thing!" Urufumarukai Tyrannosaurus aquastronka Kamineigh Myo, if you don't stop reading the YouTube comments... Lamna Are you saying what I think you're saying? Sheather bathes in cum? Cephylus And last night I dreamed I was blowing up a Kindergarten with a grenade launcher for no particular reason... revin Oh, and of course more people get killed by selfies than by sharks. Of course. Parasky SHEEEEAAAAATTTTTTHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! whachamacalit2 The smell of rotting flesh really kills my appetite, surprising, but the visual appearance of corpses makes me hungry. Is that weird? Ebervalius I mean, let us say I'm a genderfluid blurflux demi-romantic woman who is sexually attracted to men, but only if they are Melanesian and have a voice like that of Nicholas Cage. Okay, so what? trex841 When I first saw that picture, I thought you were dissecting a condom. Mr Mysterio All hail Robo-Stalin. Peashyjah Seems like everything in this project is now dead. Stealth Rock Seagulls are pretty much trees, right? Watcher We all must finish chapters of our lives to go on to the next. Sometime this means leaving behind versions of ourselves that don't want to die. Yiqi15 For April fool's, we had to make an orgasm that resembled a human foot. Flisch im the black market CaledonianWarrior96 He was a skater birb, she said tweet you later birb Most People at Some Point Quotes Some dude called plucas1 from Youtube comments Funny, isn't it, that our world needs Clark Kent a lot more than Superman. Xenoblade Chronicles Even though he is our creator, that does not afford him the right to take our lives on a whim. But that is the thinking of a homs. He is a god. Such morals cannot apply to gods. So you think we should just shut up and die?! If that is the fate decided by a god. You are mistaken if you think we will simply accept such a fate and wait to die. We'll never stop fighting. Not till the end. To Zanza, the outcome is the same. Thus your logic is flawed. Hades - Kid Icarus Uprising When freaky aliens give you lemons, make freaky alien lemonade. Kid Icarus Uprising But Souls are delicious. They're like bacon - they taste good on anything. But if you eat them, you completely remove them from existence! They can't move on or... or be reincarnated! Huh. I never really gave it much thought. Besides, what do you mean by reincarnation anyway? You know, being reborn as someone or something else. Which means different body, different memories, different experiences, yes? So isn't being reborn as "something else" the same as being "removed from existence"? I... I... eating souls isn't right! That depends on your definition of "right". All living things survive by eating other living things. So what? You're a god. You should be above all that! Gods are above living things, which doesn't necessarily mean we care about them. Some Dude on BBC Two You are being shagged... by a flightless parrot. Stuff http://imgur.com/gallery/Tshu9


9Weegee	Jul 14 2017, 11:54 PM Post #23
Newborn Posts: 59 Group: Members Member #2,176 Joined: Jun 23, 2017 Gender: Male	I hope this helps. and dont give me the "But those are in areas that were known to be scaly", Ive seen many god damn depictions with feathers in the scaled areas. http://reptilis.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Tyrannosaur_skin_impressions-lite.jpg oh and don't forget that this chart has been approved by many professionals out there. Edited by 9Weegee, Jul 14 2017, 11:55 PM.



Talenkauen	Jul 15 2017, 12:16 AM Post #24
Perpetually paranoid iguanodont Posts: 615 Group: Members Member #1,645 Joined: Mar 4, 2015 Area of expertise: Alternate Universes Favorite Quote: "Too many people have opinions on things they know nothing about. And the more ignorant they are, the more opinions they have." - Thomas Hildern, Fallout: New Vegas Also known as: The Sea Dumpling	.... Hmm.....It looks legit... At least, we'd better hope it's legit... For your sake. So according to this, T.rex is at least 95% scaly? Basically elephant levels of integument. If that's the case, then what was up with Nanuqsaurus? How would it be able to survive in the arctic, if we can infer that it was mostly scaly?
	PLEASE NOTE: If I come off as harsh or demanding whilst talking to you, please tell me. I apologize in advance..... UPCOMING PROJECTS: Projects here There are none. I'm not smart enough to make one.


Gojiratheking106	Jul 15 2017, 04:25 AM Post #25
Newborn Posts: 33 Group: Members Member #2,183 Joined: Jun 30, 2017 Gender: Male Nationality: Spanish	I can't find the Tarbosaurus skin impression. The best I found is one that was too damaged to be placed in a position. For all we know it could be from the leg. The Tyrannosaurid skin from the chest and belly seem too close to the back, but I may be wrong. It also doesn't have the scaleless throat pouch from Tarbosaurus, but maybe it still hasn't been described? Idk.



Fazaner	Jul 15 2017, 05:50 AM Post #26
Шашава птичурина Posts: 413 Group: Members Member #2,016 Joined: Nov 13, 2016 Gender: Male Area of expertise: Future Evolution Nationality: Serbian Favorite Quote: Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein Also known as: As long as I'm not offended, call me whatever you want	9Weegee Jul 14 2017, 11:54 PM I hope this helps. and dont give me the "But those are in areas that were known to be scaly", Ive seen many god damn depictions with feathers in the scaled areas. http://reptilis.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Tyrannosaur_skin_impressions-lite.jpg oh and don't forget that this chart has been approved by many professionals out there. Those are samples from 5 deferent species that lived in deferent environments, and they chose not to include the yutyrannus from china, and if they did it would have feathers all over. It's like looking if lions had mane, by looking on fur of tigers, leopards, jaguars and pumas. You can conclude that lion didn't have mane, I hope this explain this.
	Projects (they are not dead, just updated realy slowly, feel free to comment): -World after plague After a horrible plague unleashed by man nature slowly recovers. Now 36 million years later we take a look at this weird and wonderful world. -Galaxy on fire. They have left their home to get out of war. They had no idea what awaits them. My Deviant art profile, if you're curious. Before you get offended or butthurt read this -If something i say sounds racists or sexists, I AM NEITHER OF THOSE, it is language or cultural barrier, if you get offended please note me of that so i may correct myself. -English is not my native language, so gramar mistakes are expected, I will only accept your corrections if mistake makes comment unreadable, or if is something important like project post or com. Don't be a grammar-nazi, people dont like that. -I often use a common terms when writing, so yes I know birds are dinosaurs and that whales are cetaceans, no need to correct me i know that. -Sarcasm is something I commonly use in jokes, and before you get butthurt please check is it my sarcastic joke. -My goal is not to offend anyone, unless somebody is seriously getting on my nerves, and in that case all this is off!


Gojiratheking106	Jul 15 2017, 05:58 AM Post #27
Newborn Posts: 33 Group: Members Member #2,183 Joined: Jun 30, 2017 Gender: Male Nationality: Spanish	I also think icluding Tarbosaurus may be a bad idea. Let's remember it lived in a desert (I think?), T.rex lived in a place with an average of 11 degrees celsius. The environmental differences can affect the feathers.



9Weegee	Jul 15 2017, 07:55 AM Post #28
Newborn Posts: 59 Group: Members Member #2,176 Joined: Jun 23, 2017 Gender: Male	Nanuquasaurus probably hibernated/used less energy like we found in one t rex specimen, but probably on a lower blood tempurature. It could've also migrated during the winter, like what might be true about Pachyrihnosaurus remember, tyrannosaurs had lower blood tempuratures in the winter, and higher blood tempuratures in the summer



Gojiratheking106	Jul 15 2017, 08:03 AM Post #29
Newborn Posts: 33 Group: Members Member #2,183 Joined: Jun 30, 2017 Gender: Male Nationality: Spanish	That seems a bit too complicated when it could be feathered because, y'know, it's its ancestral condition.



9Weegee	Jul 15 2017, 08:30 AM Post #30
Newborn Posts: 59 Group: Members Member #2,176 Joined: Jun 23, 2017 Gender: Male	Also yutyrannus is not a tyrannosaur, its a very large proceratosaur. Hell creek and the Nemegt formation were pretty similar in climate. (The nemegt formation is what tarbo is from.) Think of hell creek like the Louisiana bayous, and the nemegt is a wetland similar to Tanzania. The two medicine and other formations in Canada don't really have any cold areas. Remember that the Cretaceous was warmer than today.



1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)

Our users say it best: "A great way to make a forums for free and it is very reliable as well. Thank you Zetaboards." Learn More · Register for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Evolutionary Continuum · Next Topic »

Pages:
1
2
3