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Unexplored topics and ideas
Topic Started: Jun 27 2017, 08:52 AM (2,301 Views)
Inceptis
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Little
Jun 27 2017, 01:55 PM
Quote:
 
-Life on an entirely water world, with highest ground kilometers below water surface.
I had an idea similar to this a few years back, but people pointed out this doesn't really change much of anything for water life. The presence or lack of an unrelated ecosystem isn't going to have sweeping effects on the ocean.
This is essentially what I'm doing with one of the few projects I'm set on doing, Pelagia. However, shallow seas and some islands still exist because the mantle periodically contracts, forcing the plates dozens of miles beneath each other.

Is Serina really the only gas giant moon project? That surprises me, considering how much of a trope it was a few years ago.
This was getting fairly big.
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Sceynyos-yos
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StellarInsect
Jun 27 2017, 02:24 PM
Sceynyos-yis
Jun 27 2017, 01:48 PM
StellarInsect
Jun 27 2017, 12:06 PM
CryperVilla
Jun 27 2017, 12:01 PM
I've never seen a project about only plants existing on a planet. I know some people want to explore this (that includes me) but I don't think I've ever seen it be done. Another thing is life under a world like Europa (I am aware of the COM centered around this idea).
Ilion is a project with only plants existing on a planet, if I remember right.
No it's not. It has had proper mobile species from the beginning. Infact its plants have mobile ancestors and have given rise to mobile species on their own.
That a plant species is proper mobile does not mean it's not a plant in an alien setting.
The mobile descendants are not autotrophic and again, the plant equivalents evolved from animal equivalents in the first place. There have always been animal equivalents.

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Is Serina really the only gas giant moon project? That surprises me, considering how much of a trope it was a few years ago.
I was thinking of The blue moon.
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PortentosaMan
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Sceynyos-yis
Jun 27 2017, 02:55 PM
StellarInsect
Jun 27 2017, 02:24 PM
Sceynyos-yis
Jun 27 2017, 01:48 PM
StellarInsect
Jun 27 2017, 12:06 PM
CryperVilla
Jun 27 2017, 12:01 PM
I've never seen a project about only plants existing on a planet. I know some people want to explore this (that includes me) but I don't think I've ever seen it be done. Another thing is life under a world like Europa (I am aware of the COM centered around this idea).
Ilion is a project with only plants existing on a planet, if I remember right.
No it's not. It has had proper mobile species from the beginning. Infact its plants have mobile ancestors and have given rise to mobile species on their own.
That a plant species is proper mobile does not mean it's not a plant in an alien setting.
The mobile descendants are not autotrophic and again, the plant equivalents evolved from animal equivalents in the first place. There have always been animal equivalents.

Quote:
 
Is Serina really the only gas giant moon project? That surprises me, considering how much of a trope it was a few years ago.
I was thinking of The blue moon.
Yeah. You are right.
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IIGSY
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CaledonianWarrior96
Jun 27 2017, 01:42 PM
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Jun 27 2017, 01:11 PM
CaledonianWarrior96
Jun 27 2017, 11:13 AM
Also more crocodilian projects (I have an idea for a world populated by various extant crocodilian species but I don't know if I should do that yet)
Crocodilians are actually really popular, though most people tend to make them endothermic and terrestrial. We we DO lack is projects where crocodilians stay cold blooded, Why turn them warm blooded when you can EMBRACE their ectothermy? Imagine a lineage of small burrowing crocodiles that slowly atrophies their legs in a similar fashion to snakes and caecilians.

Another idea is hypersaline environments, aquatic or terrestrial.

Oh, and how about this. Life near the end of the universe.
I'm actually in favour of endothermic crocodilians as you can do more with them; cursorial pursuit predators, possibly gazelle-like forms, arboreal insectivores, even flying crocodiles; the possibilities are endless. Yes you can delve into ectothermic crocodilians but I'd like to go down the endo path
Oh boy, you underestimate ectothermy. Arboreal insectivores? Have you heard of geckos? Chameleons? Tree frogs?

And whats wrong with flying ectotherms? Hell, insects are ectotherms.

That's not to mention all the sorts of ambush predators you can make. You can even have barbaturex like herbivores, and best of all....

Croc snakes.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

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opeFool
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Inceptis
Jun 27 2017, 02:38 PM
Is Serina really the only gas giant moon project? That surprises me, considering how much of a trope it was a few years ago.
Zarathrusta is another one (also Avatar, but I don't know if you all count it as one).

EDIT: I checked and yeah Illion had animals that then fused into algae and became red plants, which in turn became animals.
Edited by opeFool, Jun 27 2017, 07:27 PM.
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CaledonianWarrior96
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I haven't forgotten about chameleons and geckos but if you compare them with mammals like squirrels and monkeys the latter are more active and move around more in their environments when compared to the former. Yes there are exceptions to the rule but that's just my thoughts on the matter. I mean imagine that; squirrel crocodiles. Sounds cool to me
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IIGSY
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CaledonianWarrior96
Jun 28 2017, 08:39 AM
I haven't forgotten about chameleons and geckos but if you compare them with mammals like squirrels and monkeys the latter are more active and move around more in their environments when compared to the former. Yes there are exceptions to the rule but that's just my thoughts on the matter. I mean imagine that; squirrel crocodiles. Sounds cool to me
Sheather kind of did that. I guess it's kinda cool. But who needs that when you legless snake-like crocodiles. And how about this.


An ambush predator that lives in super cold water and has antifreeze in it's blood. You don't get much than that. Just imagine all the lethargic monstrosities you can make.



Can tetrapods even have antifreeze blood like antarctic fish?
Edited by IIGSY, Jun 28 2017, 12:03 PM.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

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Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
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Dragonthunders
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Oh boy, you underestimate ectothermy. Arboreal insectivores? Have you heard of geckos? Chameleons? Tree frogs?

I do not think it is due to ectotherms that are not very diverse, but that ectothermic crocodiles do not tend to be so diverse, that is, an arboreal ectothermic croc could be only a dwarf version of a large crocodile that only eats insects, maybe it could undergo some changes that allow them to adapt to a tree life and thus have a remarkable change, but from there, I think it would not go beyond, unless people want to establish the bases of a group of small arboreal dwellers that can be diversified into something different later.

Quote:
 
And whats wrong with flying ectotherms? Hell, insects are ectotherms.

Well hell, insects aren't vertebrates too.
Being centered on vertebrates and only vertebrates, all the main flying groups so far have shown to be all endothermic, this probably because for true flight (at least in vertebrates) it takes a high metabolism to be able to drive it. Unless you can properly explain how the insect flight system could function in a vertebrate body, I do not think they count in any way.

Quote:
 
That's not to mention all the sorts of ambush predators you can make.

That's most they do actually.

Quote:
 
You can even have barbaturex like herbivores

I feel that the potential of herbivorous crocodiles would be far greater than just iguanas like herbivores.
And it also makes me think that you are mixing the point, this that is not interested with ectotermic crocodiles not ectotherms in general.

Quote:
 
and best of all....
Croc snakes.

I feel that this would be unlikely to happen considering that the Arcosaurian morphology is not similar to that of the Lepidosaurs, added to the fact that it would be a little simplistic in design and evolution, take off its legs and that's it? Come on.
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IIGSY
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Dragonthunders
Jun 28 2017, 12:14 PM
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Oh boy, you underestimate ectothermy. Arboreal insectivores? Have you heard of geckos? Chameleons? Tree frogs?

I do not think it is due to ectotherms that are not very diverse, but that ectothermic crocodiles do not tend to be so diverse, that is, an arboreal ectothermic croc could be only a dwarf version of a large crocodile that only eats insects, maybe it could undergo some changes that allow them to adapt to a tree life and thus have a remarkable change, but from there, I think I would not go beyond, unless people want to establish the bases of a group of small arboreal dwellers that can be diversified into something different later.

Quote:
 
And whats wrong with flying ectotherms? Hell, insects are ectotherms.

Well hell, insects aren't vertebrates too.
Being centered on vertebrates and only vertebrates, all the main flying groups so far have shown to be all endothermic, this probably because for true flight (at least in vertebrates) it takes a high metabolism to be able to drive it. Unless you can properly explain how the insect flight system could function in a vertebrate body, I do not think they count in any way.

Quote:
 
That's not to mention all the sorts of ambush predators you can make.

That's most they do actually.

Quote:
 
You can even have barbaturex like herbivores

I feel that the potential of herbivorous crocodiles would be far greater than just iguanas like herbivores.
And it also makes me think that you are mixing the point, this that is not interested with ectotermic crocodiles not ectotherms in general.

Quote:
 
and best of all....
Croc snakes.

I feel that this would be unlikely to happen considering that the Arcosaurian morphology is not similar to that of the Lepidosaurs, added to the fact that it would be a little simplistic in design and evolution, take off its legs and that's it? Come on.
1. Well, they can also adapt to different diets.

2. I can't contest that.

3. True. But you could put so many twists on it. Like instead of water, a species of derived croc could bury itself in sand or leaf litter.

4. I was just giving an example for how crocs don't need to be warm blooded to be large herbivores. Obviously, they'll be more diverse.

5. Well, this happened in both lepidosaurs and lissamphibians, which are unrelated at a close level. I don't think it would be too much of a strech for archosaurs.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
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CaledonianWarrior96
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Can tetrapods even have antifreeze blood like antarctic fish?

Supposively mammoths may have had antifreeze blood but don't hold my word to that
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- Official Project
- Foundation
The Beryoni Galaxy: The Biologically Rich and Politically Complex State of our Galaxy (Habitational Zone)

- Beryoni Critique Thread (formerly: Aliens of Beryoni)
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Jun 28 2017, 12:25 PM
5. Well, this happened in both lepidosaurs and lissamphibians, which are unrelated at a close level. I don't think it would be too much of a strech for archosaurs.
It's not so much an issue of archosaurs being too distantly related to lepidosaurs for it to work, but rather that in their entire evolutionary history, no known archosauromorph, let alone archosaur, has ever exhibited complete loss of external limbs.

It's happened several times independently in both lepidosaurs and lissamphibians to boot, which demonstrates that limb-loss is a pretty easy development in groups where it can readily occur. This leaves the complete absence from it in Archosauromorpha even more perplexing, and is possibly even statistically significant, implying that maybe there's something about archosauromorph physiology that's holding them back from complete limb-loss and adopting serpentine body forms.

The only example I can think of where an archosauromorph completely lost limbs are the moa, and even then they only ever lost their forelimbs, which are very derived from the ancestral condition that crocodiles have. The next closest examples, like abelisaurids and Vancleavea, have reduced limbs, but they remain external and functional nonetheless.

I'd say it's plausible enough for a crocodilian to lose its limbs, but it would probably take quite a long time, a fairly convoluted evolutionary history and some very specific pressures to evolve into a limbless, serpentine form, no doubt quite far removed from the ancestral modern-crocodilian.
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IIGSY
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Jun 28 2017, 01:17 PM
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Jun 28 2017, 12:25 PM
5. Well, this happened in both lepidosaurs and lissamphibians, which are unrelated at a close level. I don't think it would be too much of a strech for archosaurs.
It's not so much an issue of archosaurs being too distantly related to lepidosaurs for it to work, but rather that in their entire evolutionary history, no known archosauromorph, let alone archosaur, has ever exhibited complete loss of external limbs.

It's happened several times independently in both lepidosaurs and lissamphibians to boot, which demonstrates that limb-loss is a pretty easy development in groups where it can readily occur. This leaves the complete absence from it in Archosauromorpha even more perplexing, and is possibly even statistically significant, implying that maybe there's something about archosauromorph physiology that's holding them back from complete limb-loss and adopting serpentine body forms.

The only example I can think of where an archosauromorph completely lost limbs are the moa, and even then they only ever lost their forelimbs, which are very derived from the ancestral condition that crocodiles have. The next closest examples, like abelisaurids and Vancleavea, have reduced limbs, but they remain external and functional nonetheless.

I'd say it's plausible enough for a crocodilian to lose its limbs, but it would probably take quite a long time, a fairly convoluted evolutionary history and some very specific pressures to evolve into a limbless, serpentine form, no doubt quite far removed from the ancestral modern-crocodilian.
So it's gonna take more than just throwing a crocodile into the same situation as a proto-snake or proto-caecilian. What kinda of pressures could make this happen?
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
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Jun 28 2017, 04:16 PM
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There was an earlier thread on this forum similar to this one: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/8030094/1/
A lot of interesting ideas suggested there.
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