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What is a tetrapod?
Topic Started: Jun 13 2017, 07:27 PM (1,745 Views)
IIGSY
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Mitosis
Jun 17 2017, 12:39 PM
Next to temporal fenestra, there are loads of other skeletal features that ally a fossil with Amniotes or more accurately with either Synapsids or Sauropsids. I don't know each and every one of these features, but I know that many of these are scientifically agreed upon, since there is a whole clade of Parareptilia, animals which have no temporal fenestrae, yet, are Amniotes, and even more accurately are allied more closely to Sauropsids than to Synapsids, for example the mysterious aquatic Mesosaurus, which appears to be the most basal Sauropsid, yet, has a skull configuration more similar to that of Synapsids.
It would be funny if we discovered a third lineage of amniotes that is neither synapsid nor sauropsid.
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Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

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Tartarus
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Mitosis
Jun 17 2017, 12:39 PM
since there is a whole clade of Parareptilia
Since when was Parareptilia an actual clade? Aren't parareptiles just a wastebasket taxon used for dumping all the reptiles that don't fit into any of the known reptile groups?
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LittleLazyLass
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The group has been maintained as a probably roughly valid group containing pareiasaurs, procolophonids, and friends.
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Mitosis
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Would eliminating both "Tetrapodomorpha" and "Tetrapoda" and introducing "Amphibia" for anything more closely related to Homo Sapiens than to Lungfish work?

I mean, it seems contradictory at first because Amniotes don't have "two kinds of life" which is the definition of the word "Amphibia", but if we look at it from an evolutionary standpoint we are peramorphic amphibians with extra embryonic membranes, for whom the pedomorphic tadpole stage degraded to a point that it doesn't show up as a fully functional lifeform during embryonic development.
Edited by Mitosis, Jun 18 2017, 02:03 AM.
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IIGSY
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Mitosis
Jun 18 2017, 02:02 AM
Would eliminating both "Tetrapodomorpha" and "Tetrapoda" and introducing "Amphibia" for anything more closely related to Homo Sapiens than to Lungfish work?

I mean, it seems contradictory at first because Amniotes don't have "two kinds of life" which is the definition of the word "Amphibia", but if we look at it from an evolutionary standpoint we are peramorphic amphibians with extra embryonic membranes, for whom the pedomorphic tadpole stage degraded to a point that it doesn't show up as a fully functional lifeform during embryonic development.
I don't that's a good idea. "Everything closer to homo sapiens than lungfish" would include kenichthys, eusthenepteron, rhizodonts, and a bunch of other regular fish. I still think a node based tetrapoda is the best way to go. Here the best way to do it
Tetrapodamorpha (every thing closer to tetrapods than lungfish
-Tetrapoda (stuff with four, recognizable feet)
--Eutetrapoda (crown tetrapods)

To give an existing analogy

Avemetatsaralia (everything closer to birds than crocodiles)
--Avialae (birdy things)
---Aves (crown birds)
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

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Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


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LittleLazyLass
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I suppose for now Tetrapoda sensu lato would be the traditional "it has four legs" version of Tetrapoda.
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I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess.
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Rodlox
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Jun 18 2017, 03:53 AM
Mitosis
Jun 18 2017, 02:02 AM
Would eliminating both "Tetrapodomorpha" and "Tetrapoda" and introducing "Amphibia" for anything more closely related to Homo Sapiens than to Lungfish work?

I mean, it seems contradictory at first because Amniotes don't have "two kinds of life" which is the definition of the word "Amphibia", but if we look at it from an evolutionary standpoint we are peramorphic amphibians with extra embryonic membranes, for whom the pedomorphic tadpole stage degraded to a point that it doesn't show up as a fully functional lifeform during embryonic development.
I don't that's a good idea. "Everything closer to homo sapiens than lungfish" would include kenichthys, eusthenepteron, rhizodonts, and a bunch of other regular fish.
except that's the point - either we include various lobe-fins, or we exclude critters with legs and toes.
(not sure what you mean by "regular"...you kept saying there's no such thing)
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IIGSY
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Rodlox
Jun 18 2017, 12:53 PM
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Jun 18 2017, 03:53 AM
Mitosis
Jun 18 2017, 02:02 AM
Would eliminating both "Tetrapodomorpha" and "Tetrapoda" and introducing "Amphibia" for anything more closely related to Homo Sapiens than to Lungfish work?

I mean, it seems contradictory at first because Amniotes don't have "two kinds of life" which is the definition of the word "Amphibia", but if we look at it from an evolutionary standpoint we are peramorphic amphibians with extra embryonic membranes, for whom the pedomorphic tadpole stage degraded to a point that it doesn't show up as a fully functional lifeform during embryonic development.
I don't that's a good idea. "Everything closer to homo sapiens than lungfish" would include kenichthys, eusthenepteron, rhizodonts, and a bunch of other regular fish.
except that's the point - either we include various lobe-fins, or we exclude critters with legs and toes.
(not sure what you mean by "regular"...you kept saying there's no such thing)
By "regular fish" I meant "typical looking fishy fish". Say it either has to be crown bases or total crown plus stem based is flawed logic. On one hand, it would include kenichthys which we can all agree sure as hell aint a tetrapod. On the other hand, it would exclude pederpes which definitely is a tetrapoda. Going by this logic, dinosauria should include all of avemetatsaralia.

I still stand by my conclusion that a node based tetrapoda is the best way to go. It's no different the the node based dinosauria, and I don't see anyone contesting that definition.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
IIGSY
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Little
Jun 18 2017, 11:35 AM
I suppose for now Tetrapoda sensu lato would be the traditional "it has four legs" version of Tetrapoda.
Or just tetrapoda.

Eutetrapoda could be the crown group
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mitosis
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What do you think about this hypothetical phylogenetic tree?

Rhipidistia
-Dipnoi (Lungfish)
-Tetrapodomorpha
--Basal tetrapodomorpha ('Walking Fish' with no extant descendants)
--Tetrapoda (Temnospondyli+Lepospondyli+Amniota)
---Temnospondyli
---Eutetrapoda (crown group Frogs+Princes)
----Lepospondyli
-----Lissamphibia
----Reptiliomorpha
-----Amniota
------Synapsida
------Sauropsida

An alternative I've been theorizing:

Tetrapoda (Temnospondyli+Lepospondyli+Amniota)
-Temnospondyli (traditional strict divide between tadpole and adult form, likely no Allantois, completely fish-like eggs)
-Reptiliomorpha (beginnings of the amniotic membranes, starting with the Allantois)
--Lissamphibia (some tendency towards pedo- or peramorphy e.g. pedomorphic Axolotl, peramorphic forest frogs)
--Pedoperamorphia (elimination of either the tadpole or the adult stage)
---Pedomorphia (Lepospondyli, adult form eliminated)
---Peramorphia (tadpole form eliminated)
----Amniotiformes (e.g. Diadectomorpha)
----Amniotes
Edited by Mitosis, Jun 18 2017, 05:43 PM.
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IIGSY
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Mitosis
Jun 18 2017, 05:20 PM
What do you think about this hypothetical phylogenetic tree?

Rhipidistia
-Dipnoi (Lungfish)
-Tetrapodomorpha
--Basal tetrapodomorpha ('Walking Fish' with no extant descendants)
--Tetrapoda (Temnospondyli+Lepospondyli+Amniota)
---Temnospondyli
---Eutetrapoda (crown group Frogs+Princes)
----Lepospondyli
-----Lissamphibia
----Reptiliomorpha
-----Amniota
------Synapsida
------Sauropsida

An alternative I've been theorizing:

Tetrapoda (Temnospondyli+Lepospondyli+Amniota)
-Temnospondyli (traditional strict divide between tadpole and adult form, likely no Allantois, completely fish-like eggs)
-Reptiliomorpha (beginnings of the amniotic membranes, starting with the Allantois)
--Lissamphibia (some tendency towards pedo- or peramorphy e.g. pedomorphic Axolotl, peramorphic forest frogs)
--Pedoperamorphia (elimination of either the tadpole or the adult stage)
---Pedomorphia (Lepospondyli, adult form eliminated)
---Peramorphia (tadpole form eliminated)
----Amniotiformes (e.g. Diadectomorpha)
----Amniotes
That's pretty good. Here's my idea.

Rhipidistia
-Dipnoi
-Tetrapodomorpha
--Various "fishes" (rhizodonts ect)
--Tetrapoda (feet with toes)
----Basal Tetrapoda (Ichthyostega, Tulerpeton, Pederpes, ect)
----Eutetrapoda (crown tetrapods)
-----Temnospondyli
------Lissamphibia (I heard a temnospondyl affinity is starting to take over)
-----Lepospondyli
-----Reptiliamorpha(Everything closer to ammniotes)
------Various reptiliamorphs
------Amniota
-------Synapsida
-------Sauropsida
Edited by IIGSY, Jun 18 2017, 06:49 PM.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Archeoraptor
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you are searching a fith foot to the tetrapod
and AFAIK IIGS´s idea is the scienitfic consensus
Edited by Archeoraptor, Jun 18 2017, 10:04 PM.
Astarte an alt eocene world,now on long hiatus but you never know
Fanauraa; The rebirth of Aotearoa future evo set in new zealand after a mass extinction
coming soon......a world that was seeded with earth´s weridest
and who knows what is coming next...........

" I have to know what the world will be looking throw a future beyond us
I have to know what could have been if fate acted in another way
I have to know what lies on the unknown universe
I have to know that the laws of thee universe can be broken
throw The Spec I gain strength to the inner peace
the is not good of evil only nature and change,the evolution of all livings beings"
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IIGSY
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Archeoraptor
Jun 18 2017, 09:54 PM
you are searching a fith foot to the tetrapod
and AFAIK IIGS´s idea is the scienitfic consensus
Wait, "Eutetrapoda" is a real term?
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LittleLazyLass
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It seems it exists but has not received wide use since being coined in the early 20th century.r
totally not British, b-baka!
Posted Image You like me (Unlike)
I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess.
Me
What, you want me to tell you what these mean?
Read First
Words Maybe
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IIGSY
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Little
Jun 19 2017, 09:20 AM
It seems it exists but has not received wide use since being coined in the early 20th century.r
Could you provide some sort of document that contains such a word?
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
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