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Obscure Taxa; For interesting or obscure organisms you'd like to share.
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Topic Started: Dec 14 2016, 09:46 PM (48,927 Views)
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kusanagi
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Aug 13 2017, 01:55 PM
Post #541
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- Rodlox
- Aug 13 2017, 01:15 PM
- kusanagi
- Aug 13 2017, 11:20 AM
- Rodlox
- Aug 13 2017, 11:16 AM
- kusanagi
- Aug 13 2017, 06:32 AM
If some pufferfish is interesting because it makes geometric nests, it is only so because such is apomorphic among pufferfish. Which is a statement of phylogenetic context, si?
behaviors can differ without even being different subspecies, so no.
Subspecies are taxa, taxa are arbitrary and in any case taxonomy is just the labels, population is what counts. Think how different bushmen and pygmies are to everyone else. Or more shocking still, the natural differences between dog breeds though selective breeders did not engineer the most striking ones, like vegetarian dogs in Polynesia, the climbing telomian and the like... I do not need to point out the importance of domestic animal diversity for understandiing evolution as Darwin did two centuries ago. Taxonomy =/= phylogeny. If its unusual it stands out from its closest relatives (if they are even known).
please stop moving the goalposts. Taxonomy =/= phylogeny. If something is markedly different from its relatives it is phylogenetically unusual. QED. If its unusual its because of a biological context.
Edited by kusanagi, Aug 13 2017, 01:57 PM.
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Dragonthunders
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Aug 13 2017, 05:35 PM
Post #542
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I would like to take a little time to point out that as we are growing more and more in entries for this topic. is much more difficult to go to past post and view them, so I had thought that maybe it would be a good idea if we made a list of links of the entries of the species shown so far, classify them according to group or perhaps to date of introduction and thus facilitate the navigation? Like what large projects do in topics, it could be updated monthly or weekly, it could start from the first message being added by probably some Global mod because DINOCARID is not always active.
I agree and offer my help,we should classify them by group and show which species are extinct in each groupif needed since some fossil taxa was shown,I can offer my help Maybe, My thinking was either to make the list of extinct and living organisms separate or simply to mark each species extinct and highlight it in a single list, or more likely not to do it at all because it could fall more to which group it belongs.
Would you guys allow this to be done?
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Inceptis
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Aug 13 2017, 06:12 PM
Post #543
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Maybe just put a symbol next to the link to identify it as extinct.
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This was getting fairly big.
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Rodlox
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Aug 13 2017, 06:57 PM
Post #544
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- kusanagi
- Aug 13 2017, 11:20 AM
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- kusanagi
- Aug 13 2017, 06:32 AM
If some pufferfish is interesting because it makes geometric nests, it is only so because such is apomorphic among pufferfish. Which is a statement of phylogenetic context, si?
behaviors can differ without even being different subspecies, so no.
Subspecies are taxa, taxa are arbitrary and in any case taxonomy is just the labels, population is what counts. Think how different bushmen and pygmies are to everyone else. Or more shocking still, the natural differences between dog breeds though selective breeders did not engineer the most striking ones, like vegetarian dogs in Polynesia, the climbing telomian and the like... I do not need to point out the importance of domestic animal diversity for understandiing evolution as Darwin did two centuries ago. Taxonomy =/= phylogeny. If its unusual it stands out from its closest relatives (if they are even known). ah, I see...you're conflating two different concepts: biological plasticity, and taxonomic&cladistic distance.
the diversity of, say, dogs, does not make them distant from their fellow canids in terms of who their close relatives are.
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kusanagi
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Aug 13 2017, 07:31 PM
Post #545
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- Rodlox
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- Aug 13 2017, 11:20 AM
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- Aug 13 2017, 11:16 AM
- kusanagi
- Aug 13 2017, 06:32 AM
If some pufferfish is interesting because it makes geometric nests, it is only so because such is apomorphic among pufferfish. Which is a statement of phylogenetic context, si?
behaviors can differ without even being different subspecies, so no.
Subspecies are taxa, taxa are arbitrary and in any case taxonomy is just the labels, population is what counts. Think how different bushmen and pygmies are to everyone else. Or more shocking still, the natural differences between dog breeds though selective breeders did not engineer the most striking ones, like vegetarian dogs in Polynesia, the climbing telomian and the like... I do not need to point out the importance of domestic animal diversity for understandiing evolution as Darwin did two centuries ago. Taxonomy =/= phylogeny. If its unusual it stands out from its closest relatives (if they are even known).
ah, I see...you're conflating two different concepts: biological plasticity, and taxonomic&cladistic distance. the diversity of, say, dogs, does not make them distant from their fellow canids in terms of who their close relatives are. Not really: degree of apomorphy can only be measured with a phylogenetic context, si? So yes odd doggies - like poi dogs - can only be evaluated as odd by comparison with more normal sister groups. Or if those sister groups did not exist at all, perhaps. Either way you can't take evolutionary relationships out of any question that involves comparing taxa.
Edited by kusanagi, Aug 13 2017, 07:36 PM.
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Rodlox
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Aug 13 2017, 09:37 PM
Post #546
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- Aug 13 2017, 06:57 PM
- kusanagi
- Aug 13 2017, 11:20 AM
- Rodlox
- Aug 13 2017, 11:16 AM
- kusanagi
- Aug 13 2017, 06:32 AM
If some pufferfish is interesting because it makes geometric nests, it is only so because such is apomorphic among pufferfish. Which is a statement of phylogenetic context, si?
behaviors can differ without even being different subspecies, so no.
Subspecies are taxa, taxa are arbitrary and in any case taxonomy is just the labels, population is what counts. Think how different bushmen and pygmies are to everyone else. Or more shocking still, the natural differences between dog breeds though selective breeders did not engineer the most striking ones, like vegetarian dogs in Polynesia, the climbing telomian and the like... I do not need to point out the importance of domestic animal diversity for understandiing evolution as Darwin did two centuries ago. Taxonomy =/= phylogeny. If its unusual it stands out from its closest relatives (if they are even known).
ah, I see...you're conflating two different concepts: biological plasticity, and taxonomic&cladistic distance. the diversity of, say, dogs, does not make them distant from their fellow canids in terms of who their close relatives are.
Not really: degree of apomorphy can only be measured with a phylogenetic context, si? So yes odd doggies - like poi dogs - can only be evaluated as odd by comparison with more normal sister groups. Or if those sister groups did not exist at all, perhaps. Either way you can't take evolutionary relationships out of any question that involves comparing taxa. except comparing Great Danes and lapdogs (as you suggested a few posts back) isn't an exercise in evolutionary relationships or comparing taxa (because they are both the same taxa) - its just plasticity. the comparison tells you nothing about C.familiaris and wolves, how closely related they are, nothing.
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.---------------------------------------------. Parts of the Cluster Worlds: "Marsupialless Australia" (what-if) & "Out on a Branch" (future evolution) & "The Earth under a still sun" (WIP)
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kusanagi
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Aug 13 2017, 09:39 PM
Post #547
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- Rodlox
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- kusanagi
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- Rodlox
- Aug 13 2017, 06:57 PM
- kusanagi
- Aug 13 2017, 11:20 AM
- Rodlox
- Aug 13 2017, 11:16 AM
- kusanagi
- Aug 13 2017, 06:32 AM
If some pufferfish is interesting because it makes geometric nests, it is only so because such is apomorphic among pufferfish. Which is a statement of phylogenetic context, si?
behaviors can differ without even being different subspecies, so no.
Subspecies are taxa, taxa are arbitrary and in any case taxonomy is just the labels, population is what counts. Think how different bushmen and pygmies are to everyone else. Or more shocking still, the natural differences between dog breeds though selective breeders did not engineer the most striking ones, like vegetarian dogs in Polynesia, the climbing telomian and the like... I do not need to point out the importance of domestic animal diversity for understandiing evolution as Darwin did two centuries ago. Taxonomy =/= phylogeny. If its unusual it stands out from its closest relatives (if they are even known).
ah, I see...you're conflating two different concepts: biological plasticity, and taxonomic&cladistic distance. the diversity of, say, dogs, does not make them distant from their fellow canids in terms of who their close relatives are.
Not really: degree of apomorphy can only be measured with a phylogenetic context, si? So yes odd doggies - like poi dogs - can only be evaluated as odd by comparison with more normal sister groups. Or if those sister groups did not exist at all, perhaps. Either way you can't take evolutionary relationships out of any question that involves comparing taxa.
except comparing Great Danes and lapdogs (as you suggested a few posts back) isn't an exercise in evolutionary relationships or comparing taxa (because they are both the same taxa) - its just plasticity. the comparison tells you nothing about C.familiaris and wolves, how closely related they are, nothing. No but it shows you how odd they are.
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spartan
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Aug 13 2017, 09:39 PM
Post #548
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What about Mekosuchids? They are pretty cool crocodiles and they are very forgotten
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kusanagi
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Aug 13 2017, 09:45 PM
Post #549
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What about Mekosuchids? They are pretty cool crocodiles and they are very forgotten They became less mysterious when it was demonstrated they are crovodylids and not relictual mesosuchians as Mekosuchus was originally described: Sylviornis from the same island was initially misinterpreted as a Holocene nonavian dinosaur in a similar way. The coolest of mekosuchians to most people would probably by Quinkana because the largest species exceeds the megalania, but perhaps the coolest fact about Quinkana - that humans interacted with it - is speculation.
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Rodlox
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Aug 13 2017, 10:27 PM
Post #550
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- kusanagi
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except comparing Great Danes and lapdogs (as you suggested a few posts back) isn't an exercise in evolutionary relationships or comparing taxa (because they are both the same taxa) - its just plasticity. the comparison tells you nothing about C.familiaris and wolves, how closely related they are, nothing.
No but it shows you how odd they are.  I'm beginning to worry you're trying to troll
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kusanagi
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Aug 13 2017, 10:32 PM
Post #551
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- kusanagi
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except comparing Great Danes and lapdogs (as you suggested a few posts back) isn't an exercise in evolutionary relationships or comparing taxa (because they are both the same taxa) - its just plasticity. the comparison tells you nothing about C.familiaris and wolves, how closely related they are, nothing.
No but it shows you how odd they are. 
I'm beginning to worry you're trying to troll I am actually genuinely amused you even think about odd creatures without wondering why they are different, which means asking from what?
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LittleLazyLass
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Aug 14 2017, 07:04 AM
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Again though, at a certain level is just comes down to common knowledge.
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Aug 15 2017, 11:08 PM
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 These are two Osteolaemus crocodiles from Africa. I presume they're pretty well-known on here. But the one on the left is from a unique population only found in a system of caves in Abanda, Gabon. These cave crocodiles are genetically distinct from crocodiles outside the cave and feed on bats and crickets. The only time when they ever leave the caves is during the wet season to breed, as they must still lay eggs in rotting vegetation. The orange coloration is due to the alkaline water in the caves, which is filled with bat droppings.
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Vorsa
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Aug 16 2017, 02:27 PM
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How can such a large animal subsist purely on bats and crickets? Surely their population would suffer from malnutrition and subsequently collapse?
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Yiqi15
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Aug 16 2017, 02:37 PM
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How can such a large animal subsist purely on bats and crickets? Surely their population would suffer from malnutrition and subsequently collapse? Perhaps they are on average smaller?
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