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3 Simple steps to make plausible giant arthropods; without having to drastically change their anatomy
Topic Started: Nov 13 2016, 06:00 PM (2,989 Views)
Vorsa
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Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Nov 15 2016, 07:01 PM
Vorsa
Nov 15 2016, 06:55 PM
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Nov 15 2016, 03:31 PM
Guys, beetleboo is right, we are deviating too much.









Also, we are not talking about "invertebrates" (please stop with that outdated group, it's not even good as convenient grade like 'fish'. It's like saying 'non mollusks' or 'not annelids', it's just stupid). We are talking about arthropods specifically.
Not really. You made a topic about plausible giant arthropods and we're discussing the accuracy of your ideas and whether or not arthropods are more diverse than vertebrates, which is actually quite an interesting discussion.

Besides, invertebrates is a catch all term for any animal that is within animalia but isn't a vertebrate. There's nothing wrong with using it to describe all animals outside chordata as it's easy, simple and isn't exactly wrong. Yes, in this context we are only discussing arthropods but there's nothing bad about "invertebrates".
Isn't exactly wrong, but it is very misleading. People get triggered every time someone uses "reptile", but they through around "invertebrate", like it's a valid group. Again, it's like saying "non annelid" or "not mollusk". It's technically not wrong, but it's very misleading.
Who's triggered by "reptile"!? And it's hardly misleading to say "invertebrate". If you're discussing animals that aren't vertebrates, you're going to use invertebrates to cover them all. With context, sure, use the appropriate name but you can't criticise people for using one term over another when the meaning is the same.

Quote:
 
Also, I would like to add that "age of mammals/dinosaurs" is very arbitrary. You could well say that it's been the age of tapeworms

Well no you can't because tapeworms aren't the dominant group of animals on Earth.
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LittleLazyLass
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Quote:
 
Who's triggered by "reptile"!?
Triggered is a strong word, but "reptile" is a pretty bad term.
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HangingThief
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Flisch
Nov 15 2016, 06:46 PM
Can we please stop with this silly nonsense of calling a normal discussion a "heated" debate? Just because people disagree with each other doesn't make it a flamewar. Sigh.

HangingThief
Nov 15 2016, 12:41 PM
Maggots lack true eyes, have mouthparts with a completely different structure than adult flies, and are totally legless.

Just like vertebrate embryos through various stages of their development.

HangingThief
Nov 15 2016, 12:41 PM
The world's leggiest myriapod has 750 limbs. I somehow doubt that basal myriapods all had 750 or more legs and and all modern species' figures represent reduction from that number.

I actually adressed this very point in my post?
Yes, but you said maggots have eyes and legs, which they don't. (They do have simple light receptors all over their bodies though. Just a bit of nitpicking.

Yeah, I didn't read that throughly before i replied. Sorry. Variation in number of limbs doesn't "make" arthropods more diverse, it's just one example of their morphological variation, and not even a very good one. General arthropod morphology is more prone to that sort of variation, like you mentioned. Still, caterpillars.





Hey.


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peashyjah
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Maggots don't always have eyes and legs.
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Rodlox
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HangingThief
Nov 15 2016, 08:15 PM
Flisch
Nov 15 2016, 06:46 PM

I actually adressed this very point in my post?
Yes, but you said maggots have eyes and legs, which they don't. (They do have simple light receptors all over their bodies though. Just a bit of nitpicking.
aka, eyes.

just because they aren't complex eyes, doesn't make them not eyes.
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HangingThief
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Rodlox
Nov 15 2016, 11:10 PM
HangingThief
Nov 15 2016, 08:15 PM
Flisch
Nov 15 2016, 06:46 PM

I actually adressed this very point in my post?
Yes, but you said maggots have eyes and legs, which they don't. (They do have simple light receptors all over their bodies though. Just a bit of nitpicking.
aka, eyes.

just because they aren't complex eyes, doesn't make them not eyes.
He said the eyes of the imago. The fly's compound eyes and ocelli have nothing to do with maggot's 'eyes', they're completely different organs.

Earthworms also have photosensitive cells but we don't think of them as having eyes.
Hey.


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CaledonianWarrior96
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peashyjah
Nov 15 2016, 10:19 PM
Maggots don't always have eyes and legs.
Thank you for yet again stating the obvious that was already mentioned.

(Heavy sarcasm present)
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Beetleboy
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Quote:
 
Can we please stop with this silly nonsense of calling a normal discussion a "heated" debate? Just because people disagree with each other doesn't make it a flamewar. Sigh.

I never called it a flamewar. I just don't see why disagreeing means that you have to take an impolite tone.
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Rodlox
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HangingThief
Nov 16 2016, 07:28 AM
Rodlox
Nov 15 2016, 11:10 PM
HangingThief
Nov 15 2016, 08:15 PM
Flisch
Nov 15 2016, 06:46 PM

I actually adressed this very point in my post?
Yes, but you said maggots have eyes and legs, which they don't. (They do have simple light receptors all over their bodies though. Just a bit of nitpicking.
aka, eyes.

just because they aren't complex eyes, doesn't make them not eyes.
He said the eyes of the imago. The fly's compound eyes and ocelli have nothing to do with maggot's 'eyes', they're completely different organs.

Earthworms also have photosensitive cells but we don't think of them as having eyes.
we also thought thylacines were murderous wolves, and that jackal-headed people could qualify for sainthood - 'thought' is beside the point.

i never said they were the same organs, i said they were eyes.


ps: what's the lyrics to that song? "round and round we go"?
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HangingThief
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So I shoud've said they don't have the fly's eyes. That was the point at hand.
Hey.


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IIGSY
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Vorsa
Nov 15 2016, 07:22 PM
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Nov 15 2016, 07:01 PM
Vorsa
Nov 15 2016, 06:55 PM
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Nov 15 2016, 03:31 PM
Guys, beetleboo is right, we are deviating too much.









Also, we are not talking about "invertebrates" (please stop with that outdated group, it's not even good as convenient grade like 'fish'. It's like saying 'non mollusks' or 'not annelids', it's just stupid). We are talking about arthropods specifically.
Not really. You made a topic about plausible giant arthropods and we're discussing the accuracy of your ideas and whether or not arthropods are more diverse than vertebrates, which is actually quite an interesting discussion.

Besides, invertebrates is a catch all term for any animal that is within animalia but isn't a vertebrate. There's nothing wrong with using it to describe all animals outside chordata as it's easy, simple and isn't exactly wrong. Yes, in this context we are only discussing arthropods but there's nothing bad about "invertebrates".
Isn't exactly wrong, but it is very misleading. People get triggered every time someone uses "reptile", but they through around "invertebrate", like it's a valid group. Again, it's like saying "non annelid" or "not mollusk". It's technically not wrong, but it's very misleading.
Who's triggered by "reptile"!? And it's hardly misleading to say "invertebrate". If you're discussing animals that aren't vertebrates, you're going to use invertebrates to cover them all. With context, sure, use the appropriate name but you can't criticise people for using one term over another when the meaning is the same.

Quote:
 
Also, I would like to add that "age of mammals/dinosaurs" is very arbitrary. You could well say that it's been the age of tapeworms

Well no you can't because tapeworms aren't the dominant group of animals on Earth.
If we can say 'invertebrate', then why can't we say 'non annelid' or 'not mollusk'?

Also, tapeworms aren't dominant? Well neither are mammals or dinosaurs. It's the age of nematodes, and it has been for quite a while.
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CaledonianWarrior96
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Can we stop saying stuff like it's the 'Age of...', it's a bit annoying. I mean you can make any organism group as the apex of it's range. In terms of megafauna, it would be the 'Age of Mammals'. For diversity it would be the 'Age of Invertebrates' (I can't be bothered specifying a smaller group). For sheer abundance it would be the 'Age of Microbes'.

Let's just stop it with the fact when you can literally make almost any organism group the dominant group in it's field
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- Official Project
- Foundation
The Beryoni Galaxy: The Biologically Rich and Politically Complex State of our Galaxy (Habitational Zone)

- Beryoni Critique Thread (formerly: Aliens of Beryoni)
The Ecology of Skull Island: An Open Project for the Home of King Kong (Alternative Universe)
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Corecin
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These invertebrate threads are getting out of hand. They seem to always get off topic, and just devolve into a random debate about arthropods. We do not need to have numerous invertebrate themed threads, and anymore possible questions should stay in QTDNTOT thread.

Furthermore, why did you make a 'help' thread if you didn't know for certain that your 'tips' would even be useful? If anything, you could have stayed this in the Species Factory thread.
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HangingThief
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It's been the Age Of Marine Phytoplankton since 2,500 mya.

Seriously though, it makes the most sense to name eras after the predominate megafauna. They're the first to go and be replaced by different clades when conditions change.
Edited by HangingThief, Nov 16 2016, 06:02 PM.
Hey.


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Rodlox
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HangingThief
Nov 16 2016, 02:05 PM
So I shoud've said they don't have the fly's eyes. That was the point at hand.
the maggot is the fly at another stage in the life cycle, though, right? if yes, then the maggot's eyes are the fly's eyes. one set of eyes may not become the other set of eyes, but that also doesn't make them any less eyes.
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