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3 Simple steps to make plausible giant arthropods; without having to drastically change their anatomy
Topic Started: Nov 13 2016, 06:00 PM (2,984 Views)
IIGSY
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Giant arthropods, a common trope on this site that if mostly done wrong. Sheather's grove crabs are one of the few giant arthropods that is done right (not surprised, as this is the same person who made plausible whale birds on Serina). But I have devised a way for colossal arthropods to exist without having to drastically change their anatomy. If you've been following my project, you know that I used this method for a giant lobster. But for those of you that haven't, let me explain to you how.

Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt presents...

3 steps to making plausible giant arthropods! (cue sound of kids cheering)

step 1

Your animal should probably be aquatic
As we all know, aquatic animals can get much larger than land living ones because the water supports their weight.Your arthropod has to be aquatic to surpass largest real known arthropods. If there is a way to make giant terrestrial arthropods without changing too much of their anatomy, please tell me. But as far as I know, it needs to be aquatic to surpass jakelopterus. It's best to stick with that unless you really want to challenge yourself.

step 2

exoskeletal problems
Molting really does hinder arthropod size, but here's a way to get past it. Have the exoskeleton fall of in pieces. The amount or size of the pieces doesn't really matter. You can also make it release a hormone to speed up exoskeletal hardening, to make it less vulnerable. Speaking of that...

step 3

Put it in an environment with little to no significant predators
Predators, especially vertebrates, will be a great obstacle in the path of the evolution of your giant arthropod. So, put it in an place where it has no predators. But if can think of some quirk that will protect from vertebrate predators, by all means go for it.

Some extra tips
These are some more tips that will help in making your giant arthropod, but they are by no means mandatory.

You can make it a filter feeder, as filter feeders tend to get pretty large.
While not necessary, it would help to choose an arthropod with a relatively more efficient breathing system, like a decapod or an arachnid.
Higher oxygen in the atmosphere always helps.
You could try making it sessile. It's not very conventional, but it's pretty interesting.

Congratulations, you have a scientifically plausible, somewhat realistic, giant arthropod! But remember, you do not have to follow this system strictly. You can put all the quirks and twists you want, making more unique. Your base does not have to be a lobster, or even a crustacean. It can be an insect, myriapod, spider, pycnogonid, or any other arthropod you want! So don't be a robot, have fun. :D


Please point out if I got anything wrong.

[1]

[2]
[1] Please remember, that arthropods do not HAVE to be large to be interesting. Making them bigger is just one of many things you can do with them.
[2] Also, I'v seen people say that arthropods are evolutionary stable. This couldn't be further from the truth. They are NOT stable AT ALL. They change a LOT. Probably more than vertebrates.
Edited by IIGSY, Nov 13 2016, 10:10 PM.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


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All African countries can fit into Brazil
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Vorsa
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Quote:
 
They change a LOT. Probably more than vertebrates.

I don't think that's true at all. Compare how little cockroaches have evolved since they first appeared to how much synapsids have evolved since they first appeared. Generally speaking, arthropods are stable because there's nothing to compete against them except other arthopods.
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Birbs

"you are about to try that on a species that clawed its way to the top of a 4 billion year deep corpse pile of evolution. one that has committed the genocide you are contemplating several times already. they are the pinnacle of intelligence-based survival techniques and outnumber you 7 billion to 1" - humans vs machine
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IIGSY
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Vorsa
Nov 13 2016, 07:19 PM
Quote:
 
They change a LOT. Probably more than vertebrates.

I don't think that's true at all. Compare how little cockroaches have evolved since they first appeared to how much synapsids have evolved since they first appeared. Generally speaking, arthropods are stable because there's nothing to compete against them except other arthopods.
Cockroaches are hardly all arthropods. There are plenty of extinct orders of insects. Not to mention dinocarids, eurypterids, and trilobites, which are nothing like what we see toady.

Also, by your logic, chordates should remain unchanged because their only competition comes from other chordates.
Edited by IIGSY, Nov 13 2016, 07:51 PM.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Vorsa
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Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Nov 13 2016, 07:47 PM
Vorsa
Nov 13 2016, 07:19 PM
Quote:
 
They change a LOT. Probably more than vertebrates.

I don't think that's true at all. Compare how little cockroaches have evolved since they first appeared to how much synapsids have evolved since they first appeared. Generally speaking, arthropods are stable because there's nothing to compete against them except other arthopods.
Cockroaches are hardly all arthropods. There are plenty of extinct orders of insects. Not to mention dinocarids, eurypterids, and trilobites, which are nothing like what we see toady.
The diversity of which is comparable to the diversity of vertebaret species. Neither is really more diverse than the other, it's just that arthropods have been around longer and therefore have more species.
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Birbs

"you are about to try that on a species that clawed its way to the top of a 4 billion year deep corpse pile of evolution. one that has committed the genocide you are contemplating several times already. they are the pinnacle of intelligence-based survival techniques and outnumber you 7 billion to 1" - humans vs machine
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IIGSY
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It's also noteworthy that most modern animal phyla became distinct around the Cambrian explosion. They where all on more or less on equal playing grounds back then. I wonder what would happen if all the major animal groups took different paths....
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
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LittleLazyLass
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Quote:
 
Your animal has to be aquatic
As we all know, aquatic animals can get much larger than land living ones because the water supports their weight. Not much else to say here.
Arthropleura was basically tied for largest arthropod ever, and it was fully terrestrial.
Quote:
 
I wonder what would happen if all the major animal groups took different paths....
All life on earth would've taken completely different paths, you'd practically be dealing with an alien planet.
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IIGSY
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LittleLibrarian
Nov 13 2016, 07:55 PM
Quote:
 
Your animal has to be aquatic
As we all know, aquatic animals can get much larger than land living ones because the water supports their weight. Not much else to say here.
Arthropleura was basically tied for largest arthropod ever, and it was fully terrestrial.
Quote:
 
I wonder what would happen if all the major animal groups took different paths....
All life on earth would've taken completely different paths, you'd practically be dealing with an alien planet.
Well, by giant, I mean surpassing the real record.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
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Dakka!
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I thought you also have to increase oxygen content?
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IIGSY
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W.C.K.D
Nov 13 2016, 08:08 PM
I thought you also have to increase oxygen content?
I'll add that, thanks. But it really isn't necessary for aquatic species, is it?
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
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HangingThief
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Arthropods are much more diverse than vertebrates. A fish doesn't really seem all that different from a bird when you compare a moth to a millipede, a crab to to Sacculina, even a maggot to a fly.
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IIGSY
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HangingThief
Nov 13 2016, 08:57 PM
Arthropods are much more diverse than vertebrates. A fish doesn't really seem all that different from a bird when you compare a moth to a millipede, a crab to to Sacculina, even a maggot to a fly.
Couldn't have said it better myself
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dragonthunders
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Quote:
 
Giant arthropods, a common trope on this site that if mostly done wrong.

Honestly is not much a trope, just a innusual concept that people dont make a little of care to do well, or are doing it wrong.

Quote:
 
3 steps

Im going to point that these are not exactly steps, they are rather different ideas or advices that apply to different situations. A step is more like a part of an instruction to make a concept or idea

example
 

How to make giant marine arthropods
Step one: make an environment lacking or with little presence of advanced vertebrates
Step two: Define the time and space
Step three: think about the design or morphology that this could take


Quote:
 
Your animal has to be aquatic
As we all know, aquatic animals can get much larger than land living ones because the water supports their weight. Not much else to say here.

It seems that this point is not really well explained, to say that they must be aquatic only to be big without tell in which situations and events this could happen seems to me a rather closed answer, this would be an option or a possibility, however it seems that in the way you are talking is more like a rule that can not be broken.

If you try to make a guide to help people to do bigger arthropods, I think you should look for more information, explain the processes better and exemplify them, not just put a couple of lines and a few short paragraphs

Quote:
 
A fish doesn't really seem all that different from a bird when you compare a moth to a millipede, a crab to to Sacculina, even a maggot to a fly.

A maggot to a fly is like a talpode to a frog. I honestly think more that between groups they do not vary too much, centipedes look very much like they were 400 million years ago, the same with spiders, and great varieties of insects (all of them are still hexapods with 3 segmented bodies) Of course they have an enormous diversity in terms of species and forms, although they still have the same morphological base, in each corresponding group.





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IIGSY
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Dragonthunders
Nov 13 2016, 09:12 PM
Quote:
 
Giant arthropods, a common trope on this site that if mostly done wrong.

Honestly is not much a trope, just a innusual concept that people dont make a little of care to do well, or are doing it wrong.

Quote:
 
3 steps

Im going to point that these are not exactly steps, they are rather different ideas or advices that apply to different situations. A step is more like a part of an instruction to make a concept or idea

example
 

How to make giant marine arthropods
Step one: make an environment lacking or with little presence of advanced vertebrates
Step two: Define the time and space
Step three: think about the design or morphology that this could take


Quote:
 
Your animal has to be aquatic
As we all know, aquatic animals can get much larger than land living ones because the water supports their weight. Not much else to say here.

It seems that this point is not really well explained, to say that they must be aquatic only to be big without tell in which situations and events this could happen seems to me a rather closed answer, this would be an option or a possibility, however it seems that in the way you are talking is more like a rule that can not be broken.

If you try to make a guide to help people to do bigger arthropods, I think you should look for more information, explain the processes better and exemplify them, not just put a couple of lines and a few short paragraphs

Quote:
 
A fish doesn't really seem all that different from a bird when you compare a moth to a millipede, a crab to to Sacculina, even a maggot to a fly.

A maggot to a fly is like a talpode to a frog. I honestly think more that between groups they do not vary too much, centipedes look very much like they were 400 million years ago, the same with spiders, and great varieties of insects (all of them are still hexapods with 3 segmented bodies) Of course they have an enormous diversity in terms of species and forms, although they still have the same morphological base, in each corresponding group.





Your right about the aquatic part. It doesn't have to be aquatic, but it certainly makes is a whole lot easier. Also, about your part, the same thing can be said about vertebrates.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rodlox
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Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Nov 13 2016, 06:00 PM
But I have devised a way for colossal arthropods to exist without having to drastically change their anatomy. If you've been following my project, you know that I used this method for a giant lobster. But for those of you that haven't, let me explain to you how.

exoskeletal problems
Molting really does hinder arthropod size, but here's a way to get past it. Have the exoskeleton fall of in pieces. The amount or size of the pieces doesn't really matter. You can also make it release a hormone to speed up exoskeletal hardening, to make it less vulnerable. Speaking of that...
pretty sure that "have the exoskeleton fall off in pieces" qualifies as a drastic change.

are there any insects, non-insect arthropods, or non-arthropod inverts which have switched from "whole body shedding" to "piecemeal shedding" ?


also, not sure why you put footnotes in, when the footnotes aren't [1]'d in the main text.
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IIGSY
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Rodlox
Nov 14 2016, 12:06 AM
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Nov 13 2016, 06:00 PM
But I have devised a way for colossal arthropods to exist without having to drastically change their anatomy. If you've been following my project, you know that I used this method for a giant lobster. But for those of you that haven't, let me explain to you how.

exoskeletal problems
Molting really does hinder arthropod size, but here's a way to get past it. Have the exoskeleton fall of in pieces. The amount or size of the pieces doesn't really matter. You can also make it release a hormone to speed up exoskeletal hardening, to make it less vulnerable. Speaking of that...
pretty sure that "have the exoskeleton fall off in pieces" qualifies as a drastic change.

are there any insects, non-insect arthropods, or non-arthropod inverts which have switched from "whole body shedding" to "piecemeal shedding" ?


also, not sure why you put footnotes in, when the footnotes aren't [1]'d in the main text.
But it's not a drastic anatomical change like giving them an exoskeleton.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
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