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What Would Go Extinct?
Topic Started: Nov 3 2016, 12:31 PM (3,429 Views)
IIGSY
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Just wondering, which arthropod groups are being hit hardest? Cockroaches, ants, spiders, and centipedes I think are going to last quite a while from now. Mantids, freshwater decapods, stick insects, lice and earwigs don't seem do be doing well. What are your thoughts?
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Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

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CaledonianWarrior96
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I think overall the latter groups will survive as a whole; there are enough species within their orders spread throughout the planet with maintainable populations that in a an event of the HEE at least some species from each of those groups will survive.

Also, which caimans are more likely to survive the HEE? I'm looking at a few of them and honestly I can't really see them dying out that easily (they have vast ranges, maintain sizeable populations, are protected species etc), but I may be missing something that could be their final nail in the coffin
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Rodlox
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CaledonianWarrior96
Dec 13 2016, 10:47 AM
I think overall the latter groups will survive as a whole; there are enough species within their orders spread throughout the planet with maintainable populations that in a an event of the HEE at least some species from each of those groups will survive.

Also, which caimans are more likely to survive the HEE? I'm looking at a few of them and honestly I can't really see them dying out that easily (they have vast ranges, maintain sizeable populations, are protected species etc), but I may be missing something that could be their final nail in the coffin
caimans obey the general crocodilian guideline of their sex being determined by egg temp., yes? that, combined with habitat loss, may weaken them to a point where a big tropical storm or other disaster may knock them out.
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IIGSY
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CaledonianWarrior96
Dec 13 2016, 10:47 AM
I think overall the latter groups will survive as a whole; there are enough species within their orders spread throughout the planet with maintainable populations that in a an event of the HEE at least some species from each of those groups will survive.

Also, which caimans are more likely to survive the HEE? I'm looking at a few of them and honestly I can't really see them dying out that easily (they have vast ranges, maintain sizeable populations, are protected species etc), but I may be missing something that could be their final nail in the coffin
Hmm, interesting. What arthropod groups do you think might die out? I think that at least smaller ones like grylloblattodea, mantophasmatodea, and zoraptera will probably go extinct.

As for the caimans, I don't know too much about tetrapods, but I will say this. Crocodillians seem to be surprisingly good at surviving mass extinctions for animals that big, so I think at least a few will make it out. But they have only gone through one mass extinction, so maybe they just got lucky.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
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HangingThief
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I doubt that any group of arthropods or even invertebrates in general will dissapear in the Holocene. Just species with localized ranges.

Possible exceptions might be ice worms and certain families of freshwater mollusks.

You might be on to something with grylloblattoidae- they might not appreciate global warming.
Hey.


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Flisch
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Zorcuspine
Nov 21 2016, 10:14 AM
Flisch
Nov 21 2016, 09:04 AM
A thing to consider: Our current extinction event is less discriminative than past extinction events. Historical EEs saw several groups surviving relatively unscathed while others went extinct or were hit so hard they never recovered. Human induced extinction doesn't care. Everything is hit equally hard, more or less. There are of course individual species that do better than others, but it usually doesn't extend to an entire clade.
I'd argue that this is demonstrably untrue. Megafauna has been hit harder than smaller lifeforms, island ecosystems have been hit harder then the continents, areas with a long history of hominid habitation (ie, Africa and Asia) are less affected than areas that have been colonized more recently, and terrestrial and freshwater lifeforms have historically been hit harder than marine ones. Global warming is and will disproportionately affect polar and high altitude ecosystems, as well as coral reefs. This extinction is just as selective as the others, it's just selective in a different way.
I didn't say our current mass extinction isn't selective at all. I said it's less selective. Also it's funny that you bring up Africa, because that actually a point here. Africa is doing relatively well... compared to the rest of the world. If you look at the historical and modern ranges of african mega fauna it paints a clear picture. Species nowadays inhabit only a fraction of their original space and that is on the continent that is least affected on modern megafaunal extinction. Yes, african megafauna is doing not as bad as, say, european and american (or australian) megafauna, but they are by literally no means doing well. It's a tiny advantage at best.

And also, non-polar regions won't be as unaffected as you make it sound. Global warming is not only a shift in temperature but also subsequently humidity. Moreover, it will represent a shift of climates among areas. Some regions will become wetter, others drier as the currents shift slightly. The global climate as a whole will be wetter, but individual regions will be subject to change, which will inevitably lead to native fauna and flora being replaced by other species.

As an aside, small species are JUST as much subject to the current extinction as others. There are uncounted endangered or even extinct species of insects everywhere, but most people can't tell them apart. Beetles as a whole are doing okay, just as artiodactyls as a whole are, but the variance in survivability among the individual species is just as wide as for megafauna. For every rhinoceros species that goes extinct there are hundreds if not thousands of beetle species that do as well, but a) few people care and b) due to their sheer numbers it's extremely difficult keeping track of individual species. Lastly, due to the difference in numbers, the extinction of a vertebrate species is felt more than the extinction of ten butterfly species.
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IIGSY
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HangingThief
Dec 13 2016, 04:41 PM
I doubt that any group of arthropods or even invertebrates in general will dissapear in the Holocene. Just species with localized ranges.

Possible exceptions might be ice worms and certain families of freshwater mollusks.

You might be on to something with grylloblattoidae- they might not appreciate global warming.
Are you implying that vertebrates are the worst animals when it comes to surviving mass extinctions.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
HangingThief
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ghoulish
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Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Dec 13 2016, 07:07 PM
HangingThief
Dec 13 2016, 04:41 PM
I doubt that any group of arthropods or even invertebrates in general will dissapear in the Holocene. Just species with localized ranges.

Possible exceptions might be ice worms and certain families of freshwater mollusks.

You might be on to something with grylloblattoidae- they might not appreciate global warming.
Are you implying that vertebrates are the worst animals when it comes to surviving mass extinctions.
Yes, chiefly because they're big.
Hey.


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IIGSY
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HangingThief
Dec 13 2016, 07:08 PM
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Dec 13 2016, 07:07 PM
HangingThief
Dec 13 2016, 04:41 PM
I doubt that any group of arthropods or even invertebrates in general will dissapear in the Holocene. Just species with localized ranges.

Possible exceptions might be ice worms and certain families of freshwater mollusks.

You might be on to something with grylloblattoidae- they might not appreciate global warming.
Are you implying that vertebrates are the worst animals when it comes to surviving mass extinctions.
Yes, chiefly because they're big.
Do you know how massive some inverts can get? Like the giant squid, colossal squid, giant clam, coconut crab, japanese spider crab, giant tasmanian crayfish, american lobster giant barrel sponge, lion's mane jellyfish (and many other jellyfish). Also, even though vertebrates are the biggest animals, most of them even are pretty small. Just look at all the rodents, bats, psserines, squamates, small fish, amphibians, etc. Also, cephalopods tend to be fairly large, yet they have made it out fine through multiple mass extinctions. Clearly, there's gotta be something else.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
CaledonianWarrior96
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What testudines would be most likely to survive the HEE? Looking into how many turtle, tortoise and terrapin species are vulnerable, endangered and crtically endangered I'm actually having trouble seeing this order surviving in the future. I understand turtles take a while to reach reproduction age but what advantages do some species have that gives them the edge?
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Future Planet (V.2): the Future Evolution of Life on Earth (Evolutionary Continuum)
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- Official Project
- Foundation
The Beryoni Galaxy: The Biologically Rich and Politically Complex State of our Galaxy (Habitational Zone)

- Beryoni Critique Thread (formerly: Aliens of Beryoni)
The Ecology of Skull Island: An Open Project for the Home of King Kong (Alternative Universe)
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Beetleboy
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CaledonianWarrior96
Dec 14 2016, 02:14 PM
What testudines would be most likely to survive the HEE? Looking into how many turtle, tortoise and terrapin species are vulnerable, endangered and crtically endangered I'm actually having trouble seeing this order surviving in the future. I understand turtles take a while to reach reproduction age but what advantages do some species have that gives them the edge?
I used to think that testudines wouldn't stand much of a chance either, but to be honest, I think they'll do pretty well. They're widespread, have already survived numerous mass extinction events, and are pretty hardy critters.
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HangingThief
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Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Dec 13 2016, 07:26 PM
HangingThief
Dec 13 2016, 07:08 PM
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Dec 13 2016, 07:07 PM
HangingThief
Dec 13 2016, 04:41 PM
I doubt that any group of arthropods or even invertebrates in general will dissapear in the Holocene. Just species with localized ranges.

Possible exceptions might be ice worms and certain families of freshwater mollusks.

You might be on to something with grylloblattoidae- they might not appreciate global warming.
Are you implying that vertebrates are the worst animals when it comes to surviving mass extinctions.
Yes, chiefly because they're big.
Do you know how massive some inverts can get? Like the giant squid, colossal squid, giant clam, coconut crab, japanese spider crab, giant tasmanian crayfish, american lobster giant barrel sponge, lion's mane jellyfish (and many other jellyfish). Also, even though vertebrates are the biggest animals, most of them even are pretty small. Just look at all the rodents, bats, psserines, squamates, small fish, amphibians, etc. Also, cephalopods tend to be fairly large, yet they have made it out fine through multiple mass extinctions. Clearly, there's gotta be something else.
Those are individual species, most of which have many much smaller relatives. Sure, there are inch- long mammals and 12 inch spiders, but for every one of them there's thousands of much larger mammals and much smaller spiders.

Small animals, vertebrate and invertebrate, usually survive mass extinctions. The species that die out tend to be the largest, and those tend to be vertebrates.

It isn't usually a question of "which groups will go extinct", it's a question of "which groups will have a higher percentage of species go extinct."

There are many other factors besides size (specialization, mobility, etc.) but size is the most important.
Hey.


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IIGSY
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A huntsman spider that wastes time on the internet because it has nothing better to do
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HangingThief
Dec 14 2016, 02:49 PM
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Dec 13 2016, 07:26 PM
HangingThief
Dec 13 2016, 07:08 PM
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Dec 13 2016, 07:07 PM
HangingThief
Dec 13 2016, 04:41 PM
I doubt that any group of arthropods or even invertebrates in general will dissapear in the Holocene. Just species with localized ranges.

Possible exceptions might be ice worms and certain families of freshwater mollusks.

You might be on to something with grylloblattoidae- they might not appreciate global warming.
Are you implying that vertebrates are the worst animals when it comes to surviving mass extinctions.
Yes, chiefly because they're big.
Do you know how massive some inverts can get? Like the giant squid, colossal squid, giant clam, coconut crab, japanese spider crab, giant tasmanian crayfish, american lobster giant barrel sponge, lion's mane jellyfish (and many other jellyfish). Also, even though vertebrates are the biggest animals, most of them even are pretty small. Just look at all the rodents, bats, psserines, squamates, small fish, amphibians, etc. Also, cephalopods tend to be fairly large, yet they have made it out fine through multiple mass extinctions. Clearly, there's gotta be something else.
Those are individual species, most of which have many much smaller relatives. Sure, there are inch- long mammals and 12 inch spiders, but for every one of them there's thousands of much larger mammals and much smaller spiders.

Small animals, vertebrate and invertebrate, usually survive mass extinctions. The species that die out tend to be the largest, and those tend to be vertebrates.

It isn't usually a question of "which groups will go extinct", it's a question of "which groups will have a higher percentage of species go extinct."

There are many other factors besides size (specialization, mobility, etc.) but size is the most important.
Oh ok.
Projects
Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates
Last one crawling: The last arthropod

ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess)

Potential ideas-
Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized.
Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal.
Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents.

Quotes


Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups


In honor of the greatest clade of all time


More pictures


Other cool things


All African countries can fit into Brazil
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rodlox
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we've got at least two threads with this topic...

perhaps we should distinguish/differentiate between
a. species which will be preserved via conservation, but they continue requiring human assistance (either because their habitat no longer exists, or their population dropped to around a dozen individuals before recovery efforts succeeded)
...and...
b. species which will be preserved via conservation, and manage to survive without a great deal of human aid. (bison may belong in this category)

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Parts of the Cluster Worlds:
"Marsupialless Australia" (what-if) & "Out on a Branch" (future evolution) & "The Earth under a still sun" (WIP)
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CaledonianWarrior96
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Well in the case of B in Rodlox's comment, are there any species of testudines that are endangered/vulnerable and are making a comeback?
Come check out and subscribe to my projects on the following subforums;

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- Official Project
- Foundation
The Beryoni Galaxy: The Biologically Rich and Politically Complex State of our Galaxy (Habitational Zone)

- Beryoni Critique Thread (formerly: Aliens of Beryoni)
The Ecology of Skull Island: An Open Project for the Home of King Kong (Alternative Universe)
The Ecology of Wakanda: An Open Project for the Home of Marvel's Black Panther (Alternative Universe)

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