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| Blast into the future: the arthropozoic *OLD*; Arthropods become the dominant megafauna, macrofauna, and microfauna | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 9 2016, 06:37 PM (1,691 Views) | |
| IIGSY | Oct 9 2016, 06:37 PM Post #1 |
A huntsman spider that wastes time on the internet because it has nothing better to do
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Ever since they came about during the cambrian explosion, arthropods have truly stood the test of time. They come in staggering diversity, filling in many niches. However, they don't do very well as megafauna. Their size is limited by their respiratory systems and exoskeletons, as well as competition from vertebrates. That, however, is all about to change. Quarentary: The Quarentary goes on for about another 2000 years before abruptly coming to an end. Human civilization continues to advance in science and technology. But the human population expands rapidly. Deforestation, pollution and ocean acidification increase to an alarming level. Political tensions also hit a breaking point and a massive war commonsense. Instead of nukes, which are very outdated at this point, the WMD are plasma bombs. These bombs are nuclear bombs with one added features. As the bombs fall, they collect he surrounding oxygen and rapidly heat it up to convert it into plasma. These bombs have a much wider explosion radius. To cap it all off, an asteroid smacks earth. This extinction kills of many creatures. Groups that died: Butterflies Over half of all dipterans (true flies) Over half of all flatworms Lice Ticks Most mantids Honeybees Conifers Many flowering plants Any species that was considered endangered before hand Many minor groups like zoraptera Most corals Most vertebrates Most organisms that directly depend on vertebrates for their existence that where not already mentioned And so much more Neocarboniferous: Life on earth starts to recover. Oxygen levels start to rise. Most organisms still look relatively "normal" at this point. Many arthropods start to get a notable, but not too drastic, increase in size. This happens before vertebrates can fully recover and thus they still stay small. With the lack of butterflies and honeybees, moths and hoverflies are the new major pollinators. Nothing to much goes on in this period. It lasts for about 20 million years. Treacheagene: Strait of Gibraltar closes. Antarctica heads north, colliding with australia. South and North America separate. Africa heads north, smash the arabian plate even more into asia. Arthropods have basically secured their grip as the dominant megafauna at this point but are still limmited by their exoskeletons in size, with new forms starting to evolve. Vertebrates are slowly being out competed to extinction. With the reduction of copepods, this leaves a gap for a new group to enter the realm of zooplankton. Springtails. While they do have their fair share of macroscopic forms, they really shine in the microscopic world. They are an important component of zooplankton and soil mesofauna. Some arthropod groups, including phasmids, beetles, and decapods, also start to independently evolve something revolutionary. Proper lungs and a more flexible exoskeleton, as well as a more erect posture. Though this wouldn't be fully accomplished until the next period. With the almost complete lack of corals, barnacles have taken the reefbuilding niche. A minor mass extinction kills of the remaining vertebrates. It lasts for about 50 million years. Arthropogene: Austrarctica heads north, colliding with asia. North america collides with europe. South america is isolated. Arthropods reach their ultimate height during this period. Oxygen levels are at an all time high during, at 45%. With the previously mentioned adaptations being full developed, some arthropods reach titanic proportions. Naturally, aquatic animals tend to reach larges sizes more than land animals. Many highly derived forms come about. Barnacles reefs are very large and widespread, being a biodiversity hot spot, just as corals reefs do in our timeline. Insects continue to evolve symbioses with plants. Robberflies compete with dragonflies for dominance of the skies. Crustaceans, large and small, roam around the oceans. Caroline algae also becomes a keystone organisms, with whole "forests" made of them, much like today's kelp forests. Lasts for about 60 million years. Exogene: The world is pretty alien now, though many relics of the past still persist. Oxygen levels, and therefor arthropod size, start to decrease. Our super continent starts to split in two, the North ameraficarabia and the indoeurasiastralia. Forests start to shrink. Deserts start to grow. But despite all this, something shocking happens. The birth of a new sapient species, Arachnosapiens. It is a far off descendant of jumping spiders. It lives in tribes and can construct tool such as spears. Lasts for about 32 millions years. Finalegene: The world is now almost completely unrecognizable now, with very few familiar looking organisms. They majority of terrestrial habitats are deserts or arid plains. Animals exceeding 4 kilograms are rare. Arachnosapiens survives up to this point, but it will not stand up to what is to come. Lasts for about 35 million years. The end: A mass extinction simply dubbed "the end" ensues, putting the permian-triassic to shame. Multiple super volcanoes erupt, kicking tons of ash and dust into the air blocking out the sun and suffocating many animals. Then not one, but two large asteroids smash into earth. This kills more than 99% of life on earth. The only surviving organisms are microbes living deep in the ocean or in the soil. Of these, the only animals are nematode worms. Earth is a barren wasteland but, one day, life will recover. What's next? Who knows... Edited by IIGSY, Oct 20 2016, 08:22 PM.
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess) Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents. Quotes Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups In honor of the greatest clade of all time More pictures Other cool things All African countries can fit into Brazil
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| Dakka! | Oct 12 2016, 05:58 PM Post #16 |
Prime Specimen
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I think he said something about them having an internal skeleton. Although that is subject to criticism as I doubt insects would develop internal skeletons as they are already perfect. The insects small size allows them to use less food and increases their population capacity so I doubt they would have any motive to grow that big. Also, how does your giant cockroach work? I thought cockroaches were unaffected by increased oxygen and mainly by available food. |
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"I was a Psychiatrist in Florida! For 3 weeks! Have you ever been to Florida?" Some project ideas The Future is Right Ediacaran Explosion Great Old Ones Skinkworld Unrelated:The Final Spec:What Could Have Been, And Still Can | |
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| Dragonthunders | Oct 12 2016, 06:38 PM Post #17 |
The ethereal archosaur in blue
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If I can recommend something is you need to put dates on the periods, I have noticed that even though you have described each time in the timeline, none has a specific date which can someone identify exactly, it would be appropriate to added to that point in the future begin and end that people can understand when these events happens.
I doubt that spiders could reach those lengths, their exoskeletons would be quite heavy and also too thick to give a stable support to the animal so that it can operate efficiently, even with an atmosphere rich in oxygen, the biggest that could reach without a internal skeleton would be less than one meter. |
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Projects "Active" projects The Future is Far Welcome to the next chapters of the evolution of life on earth, travel the across the earth on a journey that goes beyond the limits, a billion years of future history in the making. The SE giants project Wonder what is the big of the big on speculative evolution? no problem, here is the answer Coming one day Age of Mankind Humanity fate and its possible finals. The Long Cosmic Journey The history outside our world. The alternative paths The multiverse, the final frontier... Holocene park: Welcome to the biggest adventure of the last 215 million years, where the age of mammals comes to life again! Cambrian mars: An interesting experiment on an unprecedented scale, the life of a particular and important period in the history of our planet, the cambric life, has been transported to a terraformed and habitable mars in an alternative past. Two different paths, two different worlds, but same life and same weirdness. My deviantart | |
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| IIGSY | Oct 12 2016, 07:41 PM Post #18 |
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A huntsman spider that wastes time on the internet because it has nothing better to do
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It has evolved a more flexible exoskeleton. Seeing as how spiders already has very soft exoskeletons, it shouldn't be too difficult. |
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess) Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents. Quotes Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups In honor of the greatest clade of all time More pictures Other cool things All African countries can fit into Brazil
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| IIGSY | Oct 12 2016, 07:44 PM Post #19 |
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A huntsman spider that wastes time on the internet because it has nothing better to do
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You ignore the fact that book lungs are more efficient than tracheae. And see as how spider exoskeletons are already very soft, evolving them to be more flexible shouldn't be too difficult. |
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess) Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents. Quotes Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups In honor of the greatest clade of all time More pictures Other cool things All African countries can fit into Brazil
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| Dakka! | Oct 12 2016, 07:44 PM Post #20 |
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Prime Specimen
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I don't see how a more flexible exoskeleton is going to help support the spider. In fact it might even be a hindrance as it's so big. |
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"I was a Psychiatrist in Florida! For 3 weeks! Have you ever been to Florida?" Some project ideas The Future is Right Ediacaran Explosion Great Old Ones Skinkworld Unrelated:The Final Spec:What Could Have Been, And Still Can | |
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| IIGSY | Oct 12 2016, 07:47 PM Post #21 |
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A huntsman spider that wastes time on the internet because it has nothing better to do
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American cockroaches, after surviving the initial extinction, lost many of their typical food sources and resorted to predation. As their prey grew bigger, so did they. |
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess) Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents. Quotes Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups In honor of the greatest clade of all time More pictures Other cool things All African countries can fit into Brazil
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| IIGSY | Oct 12 2016, 07:55 PM Post #22 |
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A huntsman spider that wastes time on the internet because it has nothing better to do
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Their some tissues in their legs harden to form a sort of endoskeleton. Perhaps I should have mentioned this. |
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess) Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents. Quotes Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups In honor of the greatest clade of all time More pictures Other cool things All African countries can fit into Brazil
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| Dragonthunders | Oct 12 2016, 08:04 PM Post #23 |
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The ethereal archosaur in blue
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No, I dont, this is not about how to breathe, is more related to the way in which the animal is structured, do not confuse the two, you can have arthropods with efficient lungs, however, with any appropriate internal support these not could grow much, is for that the most big arthropods on land were just 3 meters long flat beings or in the case of arachinds just big as a cat.
I must say that I have seen several times this idea that more flexible exoskeletons equals larger, but does not work that way, exoskeletons have the primary function of keeping everything protected and soft tissue instead. If the animal grows, it loses flexibility, at least in segments, so no. |
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Projects "Active" projects The Future is Far Welcome to the next chapters of the evolution of life on earth, travel the across the earth on a journey that goes beyond the limits, a billion years of future history in the making. The SE giants project Wonder what is the big of the big on speculative evolution? no problem, here is the answer Coming one day Age of Mankind Humanity fate and its possible finals. The Long Cosmic Journey The history outside our world. The alternative paths The multiverse, the final frontier... Holocene park: Welcome to the biggest adventure of the last 215 million years, where the age of mammals comes to life again! Cambrian mars: An interesting experiment on an unprecedented scale, the life of a particular and important period in the history of our planet, the cambric life, has been transported to a terraformed and habitable mars in an alternative past. Two different paths, two different worlds, but same life and same weirdness. My deviantart | |
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| IIGSY | Oct 12 2016, 08:09 PM Post #24 |
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A huntsman spider that wastes time on the internet because it has nothing better to do
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See the comment above. |
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess) Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents. Quotes Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups In honor of the greatest clade of all time More pictures Other cool things All African countries can fit into Brazil
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| Hybrid | Oct 12 2016, 09:10 PM Post #25 |
May Specula Grant you Bountiful Spec!
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Those bombs and asteroid were really selective, since I know that many vertebrates (including tetrapods) and conifers survived asteroids before. If the asteroid and bombs was that bad, most arthropod groups (specialized ones such as mantids included) would most likely go too plus many more. The bombs are a factor that I don't know how bad specifically they would be, since they're rather nonsensical and don't exist, but I'm sure they would effect arthropods too.
Why would oxygen increase that much, since only a select group of plants survived. You'd need them to become uncontrolled forests once again, just like in the Devonian and eventually the Carboniferous where until a certain part of the latter period there were no huge herbivores. However already groups that would control their numbers exist and would have survived the extinction event, or would recover and evolve into forms that would control them. At most I can see numbers like that of the Paleocene and Eocene, unless this extinction was even worse. In that case, then it would take longer for the forests to appear and thus arthropods would only grow a little at most until the forests return but even then vertebrates would evolve along side the forests and thus large herbivores would evolve soon in this scenario too (and larger vertebrates that would eat the arthropods). Also, even in the Carboniferous: arthropods didn't get super big. A few did, but most didn't, and they certainly didn't outcompete vertebrates on land. Fun fact: the largest spiders and cockroaches that have ever existed live today. A minor nitpick here would be for the name of the period. It wouldn't be a newer Carboniferous, since as the period name suggests, the rock layer in which it's correlated with is rich in coals: however since fungi that can decompose the lignin, we wouldn't see such large deposits of coal in the future.
I find this incredibly unlikely. The ones that would have survived would have recovered extremely fast: mammals for example evolved into large forms in less than a few million years after the K-Pg. I don't think this extinction event would be any different like any other. If it was that bad, again, arthropods would be super effected as well and take a while to recover too.
How would they have secured their grip?
How?
Wouldn't copepod numbers just bounce back when the world recovers?
Why and how, as well as other traits the derived forms get?
I imagine they would have decreased a long time ago considering mass and minor extinctions, as well as a changing climate and large herbivores appearing. |
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If I sound rude while critiquing, I apologize in hindsight! "To those like the misguided; look at the story of Man, and come to your senses! It is not the destination, but the trip that matters. What you do today influences tomorrow, not the other way around. Love Today, and seize All Tomorrows!" - Nemo Ramjet ﾉ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ヽ 
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| IIGSY | Oct 13 2016, 08:16 AM Post #26 |
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A huntsman spider that wastes time on the internet because it has nothing better to do
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You forget a to considor a few things. Vertebrates where already on a serious decline, and even the groups of orgabisms that survived took heavy losses. Secondly, with no competition and predation from vertebrates, arthropod populations exploded and so did the surviving flowing plants which pumped more oxygen in the air. But your right about me making some mantids survive, ill change that. Arthropods are generally better than vertebrates when it comes to tanking mass extinctions. As for arthropods developing the new features, with so many open niches, they where going to filled at some point. As for the springtails, aquatic springtail populations explode before copepods could fully recover and it goes from there. |
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess) Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents. Quotes Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups In honor of the greatest clade of all time More pictures Other cool things All African countries can fit into Brazil
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| CaledonianWarrior96 | Oct 13 2016, 09:52 AM Post #27 |
An Awesome Reptile
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Sorry but I don't see how arthropods could take over vertebrates as the dominant megafauna and flowering plants wouldn't be enough to pump oxygen levels to extreme levels. You'd need trees; like billions of trees, more than there are today and for them to pump enough oxygen for tens of millions of years. I don't think you're really explaining this properly, or even understanding the crititism being told |
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| Dragonthunders | Oct 13 2016, 10:37 AM Post #28 |
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The ethereal archosaur in blue
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Make them evolve endoskeletons or pseudo-endoskeletons is not a viable solution as the lungs, at least for this scenario. Note that evolution allows organisms to adapt but with the features that currently have, if these have limits, these features are not going to change suddenly. Gigantism is a possibility for some lineages, however, this will be possible depending on the capabilities of each arthropod to evolve, you can not force animals to grow to the size of dogs or cows or evolve features that would allow them just because it looks great, that would be unlikely and in some cases it would be considered ridiculous if not give a logical explanation.
I dont think that is happening to the point for not recover, there is a loss of species in terms of megafauna and groups of medium size and small animals, but, this would not cause groups couldn't recover in a fairly short term, this has happened several times before in worst events as in the permian and in the cretaceous, humans, asteroids or bombs would not change too this routine.
That could not boost in a short term a hight atmosphere similar to the Carboniferous (still dont know in which time this happen, pls put dates of how far in the future is happening these events) as had been explained, the reason for which the carboniferous forests were expanded is by the fact that there wasnt herbivorous animals that stop them. Now is very different the situation, even among arthropod there are enough specialized herbivore that could stop this propagation. I must say that this has always been true, however, all have always been small, no matter the conditions subsequent of the extinctions. they always evolve new features, but typically they are not related to the length. I honestly recommend before commenting on it to change the perspective of the project, rather than on Earth, try it on a terraformed planet. The terraformed planets offer a greater chance and do not require selective mass extinctions, you can put the groups you want with the conditions that you like, without vertebrates. It is much more possible to make a world of arthropod apart rather than extinguish much of vertebrates and wait never recover in my opinion. Of course, there will still be limits even arthropod groups in terms of growth at least for a great amount of time, so no higher spiders than a human. And please try to hear the advice of some people here on this subject, this has been spoken several times, and conclusions have always been the same, it is not possible to happen, at least for spiders and insects with its actual forms |
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Projects "Active" projects The Future is Far Welcome to the next chapters of the evolution of life on earth, travel the across the earth on a journey that goes beyond the limits, a billion years of future history in the making. The SE giants project Wonder what is the big of the big on speculative evolution? no problem, here is the answer Coming one day Age of Mankind Humanity fate and its possible finals. The Long Cosmic Journey The history outside our world. The alternative paths The multiverse, the final frontier... Holocene park: Welcome to the biggest adventure of the last 215 million years, where the age of mammals comes to life again! Cambrian mars: An interesting experiment on an unprecedented scale, the life of a particular and important period in the history of our planet, the cambric life, has been transported to a terraformed and habitable mars in an alternative past. Two different paths, two different worlds, but same life and same weirdness. My deviantart | |
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| IIGSY | Oct 13 2016, 02:42 PM Post #29 |
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A huntsman spider that wastes time on the internet because it has nothing better to do
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I know, your right. I'm sorry. I am a beginner and I just wanted a world where arthropods are dominant, but I geuss that I'm not very good at this  . Your ostracogene inspired me to do this. I thought, what if I took this a step further and wiped out vertebrates completely. I wanted to use creatures that are often ignored on this forum, like phasmids, barnacles, springtails, fleas, cockroaches, wolf spiders, geophilimorph centipedes and so on. Maybe I should do it on a terraformed planet before doing something earth related, like you said.
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Projects Punga: A terraformed world with no vertebrates Last one crawling: The last arthropod ARTH-6810: A world without vertebrates (It's ded, but you can still read I guess) Potential ideas- Swamp world: A world covered in lakes, with the largest being caspian sized. Nematozoic: After a mass extinction of ultimate proportions, a single species of nematode is the only surviving animal. Tri-devonian: A devonian like ecosystem with holocene species on three different continents. Quotes Phylogeny of the arthropods and some related groups In honor of the greatest clade of all time More pictures Other cool things All African countries can fit into Brazil
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| Dakka! | Oct 13 2016, 06:21 PM Post #30 |
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Prime Specimen
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No no I have a better idea for you;LAND SIPHONOPHORE. That's the only plausible scenario for insects to outcompete vertebrates. Another one could be insect exoskeletons get as strong as a coconut crabs. |
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"I was a Psychiatrist in Florida! For 3 weeks! Have you ever been to Florida?" Some project ideas The Future is Right Ediacaran Explosion Great Old Ones Skinkworld Unrelated:The Final Spec:What Could Have Been, And Still Can | |
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