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The Neanderthal
Topic Started: Sep 5 2008, 07:37 PM (2,269 Views)
Yorick
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*Alternate timeline finds that through mercy of early man, neanderthals did not go exinct when the cro-magnon migrated to Europe.

It's present day. What happens?

I think that humans would today would still be at around the same point in our civilization. We still have coomputers connected to the interent, airplanes, telephones, etc.

The neanderthal on the other hand are our servants/pets. They're not slaves like the Africans of pre-Civil War America or ancient Rome and the like but rather treated as a higher form of animal. Much like the goblins of the "Harry Potter" books. They're treated higher than our companion pets like cats and dogs but since they can talk and have hands with an opposable thumb, they're very helpful and we're practically symbiotic.

Humans rule the world with our mastery of science and technology while our primitive cousins pass us the test tubes.


*According to scientific law, an ecosystem has a fixed number of species. When a new species is introduced to a foreign ecosystem, either that new species dies out because it can't adapt or the new species thrives and drives a a native rival or food animal to extinction. For the purposes of this scenario, this law was upheld because of man's tendency to step out of his biology and live alongside the neaderthal.
Edited by Yorick, Nov 9 2008, 12:32 AM.
"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger"

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Vultur-10


I'm not sure. If the Neanderthals were given time to learn from humans, they would probably at some point (when some Sumerian or Egyptian king tried to use Neanderthal shock troops, and thus taught them tactics) rise up and conquer us. At any point before the invention of guns, their much greater strength would have given them a dramatic advantage in combat.

(This is also why I think that Neanderthals "died out" by genetically mixing with Cro-Magnons; I really don't see any way, if there was violence, for the Neanderthals not to win.)
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Yorick
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I take it that you didn't see the brilliant History channel documentary "Clash of the Cavemen" that detailed the fall of the Neanderthal when the faster, smarter, taller Cro-magnon man migrated to Europe from Africa.

And weren't there genetic tests that proved Neanderthals were a separate species of the genus Homo and not a subspecies?
"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger"

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Livyatan


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Sep 5 2008, 10:21 PM
(This is also why I think that Neanderthals "died out" by genetically mixing with Cro-Magnons; I really don't see any way, if there was violence, for the Neanderthals not to win.)
I think the Neanderthals were gentle giants behind their brutish appearance. Remember that the gorilla looks more fearsome then a chimp? Yet a gorilla is a much more peaceful creature and is a vegetarian. I think of the two, humans are the warriors and Neanderthals were peaceful, thus their downfall in human-Neanderthal conflict.
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Venatosaurus
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Actually wasn't Neanderthal just as smart as us, they also communicated with language. They'd be just as good as us although they'd live in colder regions, they'd probably be considered like another race. They probably were kinder, maybe they'd be a more nature incorporated race, than our money and machine worshiping culture !!! :D
Edited by Venatosaurus, Sep 6 2008, 12:03 AM.



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Livyatan


http://specevolution.wordpress.com/2008/02/06/part-1-the-rise-of-man/
http://specevolution.wordpress.com/2008/02/07/part-2-the-rise-of-man/

I admit not very well written or researched but it does pertain to this topic.
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lamna
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Quote:
 
Actually wasn't Neanderthal just as smart as us, they also communicated with language. They'd be just as good as us although they'd live in colder regions, they'd probably be considered like another race. They probably were kinder, maybe they'd be a more nature incorporated race, than our money and machine worshiping culture !!!



I expect there is a Neanderthal in a parallel universe thinking how gentle those fragile Homo sapiens were.

If Robert J. Sawyers novels are accurate, Neanderthals or “Barast” would be bisexual eco-fascists. Ish.
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34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur.
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Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna?
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Saxophlutist
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lamna
Sep 10 2008, 05:46 PM
<snip> gentle..... Homo sapiens were

:P Uhhh....
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lamna
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Well I was simply addressing the issue that many people think different would be better.
There is no reason to think that Neanderthals would care for the environment more than people do.
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Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna?
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Reedstilt
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I'm not to up-to-date on the subject, so if some discover has cropped up to disprove this, I'm just not aware of it. My apologies. Anyhow:

Last I heard, the evidence indicated that Neanderthals were more sedentary that humans. They picked a territory, settled it, and rarely moved. If this is their basic behavior, as opposed to us who frequently move to new areas, this might prompt a more ecofriendly mindset. You're going to be staying in your little valley for a long time, take care of it. Pure speculation on my part of course, other than the evidence that suggests they didn't move around alot. Reluctance to migrate might explain why they died out and we survived. When times get tough, the Neanderthals weathered the storm, always ready to reap the benefits when things got better. Humans, alternatively, left town for greener pastures.
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lamna
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Hmm good point.
I once read humans are so bad at so many things because our mind still thinks of us as rainforest dwelling apes. We don’t have to worry about our waste as we are always moving, and nests and faeces will quickly disappear, we don’t have to worry about resources because there is always fruit in season. And we don’t have to worry too much about fights because we don’t have any natural weaponry so fights will probably not be lethal.
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Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna?
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Sliver Slave
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I'm going back to basics.

Recipe for disaster...sort of like how we're "belief machines". Since getting a false positives (thinking A is related to B when it isn't) is not really harmful in the natural world, and thinking that there isn't a connection between something ( thinking A isn't related to B when it is) could be harmful, those that were less skeptical were more likely to live.
Something is upsetting the ostriches.

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Cynovolans
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If anyone would like to see then here is an article about a new theory for why Homo sapiens outcompeted the Neanderthals.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/09/080908-neanderthal-brain.html
Edited by Cynovolans, Sep 11 2008, 08:45 PM.
I wish I could give the public a true picture of the queen as she appeared at her best, but this would be impossible, even had she permitted a photograph to be taken, for her charming play of expression while in conversation, the character and intellect which were then revealed, were only half seen when the face was in repose. -Lilias Underwood when speaking of Empress Myeongseong

"I was born in the dark. I went out into the light, and your Majesty, it is my displeasure to inform you that I have returned to the dark. I envision a Seoul of towering buildings filled with Western establishments that will place herself back above the Japanese barbarians. Great things lie ahead for the Kingdom, great things. We must take action, your Majesty, without hesitation, to further modernize this still ancient kingdom."-Min Young-ik to Empress Myeongseong
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Sliver Slave
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I'm going back to basics.

Interesting...
Something is upsetting the ostriches.

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Yorick
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Did anyone see the informative documenatry the Neanderthal Code last month on Nat Geo?
"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger"

-The Dark Knight (2008)
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