Hawaii (After Man)

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Hawaii (After Man)
Topic Started: Sep 5 2008, 07:13 PM (3,650 Views)
Yorick	Sep 5 2008, 07:13 PM Post #1
Adult Posts: 931 Group: Members Member #74 Joined: Sep 5, 2008 Nationality: American	What would happen in Hawaii if mankind suddenly vanished or died by a plague? Dogs and cats are the closest thing they have to predators in the Hawaii islands. And mice and rats and surrounding fish and tropical birds are the only real prey. Hawaii isn't exactly know for it's agriculture so I'm guessing there aren't many pigs and and cows and chickens and sheep and goats and horses for our former pets to feed on? In each period of time I've listed for Hawaii After Man (AM), please write what would happen to the wildllife of Hawaii. 10 Years AM: I'm guessing feral cats and dogs would survive but numbers for dogs are low because mice and rats aren't simply large and abundant enough to be proper prey. They may resort to ocassional cannibalism and feeding on rival cats. 100-200 Years AM: 1000-5000 Years AM: Edited by Yorick, Sep 7 2008, 06:10 PM.
	"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008)

Replies:
Carlos	Sep 9 2008, 03:42 PM Post #31
Adveho in me Lucifero Posts: 11,702 Group: Members Member #5 Joined: May 31, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: Portugayse Favorite Quote: Blame is the playing of children and is given to many like a gift that cannot be returned. Acceptance is the tool of the mature that is rarely loaned out.	Yes, cats and mongooses might just outcompete dogs. Of course, there are also other alternatives for them, such as becoming fish hunters... Despiste the presence of predatory mammals I still think some birds could become flightless again. There's proof that the modern pukeko from New Zealand is evolving towards flightlessness, despiste the presence of several mammalian predators; they usually run when chased, and only take off in extreme cases
	Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro


Livyatan	Sep 9 2008, 04:03 PM Post #32
Posts: 1,998 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: May 24, 2008 Area of expertise: Future Evolution Favorite Quote: "Knowledge never springs from faith. It springs from doubt." - Humayun Azad Nationality: American	Ratites evolved within the presence of theropod predators and many aquatic birds evolved during the Cretaceous when mosasaurs and fish like Xiphactinus were populating the seas so flightless birds along with mammalian predators wouldn't be so odd. They would just need to evolve additional defenses.
	The grand Livyatan on deviantArt: link


Carlos	Sep 9 2008, 04:12 PM Post #33
Adveho in me Lucifero Posts: 11,702 Group: Members Member #5 Joined: May 31, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: Portugayse Favorite Quote: Blame is the playing of children and is given to many like a gift that cannot be returned. Acceptance is the tool of the mature that is rarely loaned out.	Not to mention the dromornids and the terror birds, which evolved despiste the presence of marsupial predators, or the plotopterids, which evolved when large predatory whales still ruled the oceans. So yeah, flightless fowl and rails on future Hawaii are possible.
	Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro


Yorick	Nov 29 2008, 12:55 AM Post #34
Adult Posts: 931 Group: Members Member #74 Joined: Sep 5, 2008 Nationality: American	I'd just like to say that Dingoes aren't wild dogs but the descendants of feral domestic dogs from thousands of years past
	"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008)


leptonosoma	Nov 29 2008, 02:08 AM Post #35
Official Timette Posts: 441 Group: Members Member #63 Joined: Aug 22, 2008 Gender: Female	Since dogs are larger, my guess is they would dominate as native predators over the felines. The cats could even be wiped out if the dogs become dominant. Dogs can easily kill cats, even strays. Unless the whales decide to leave the oceans and take over the island. Sheep and goats survive there pretty well without human help, so they would be the food for the dogs. I don't think it's correct to say the islands will completely disappear just because they are volcanic islands. That's how all land got started.
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Carlos	Nov 29 2008, 04:09 AM Post #36
Adveho in me Lucifero Posts: 11,702 Group: Members Member #5 Joined: May 31, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: Portugayse Favorite Quote: Blame is the playing of children and is given to many like a gift that cannot be returned. Acceptance is the tool of the mature that is rarely loaned out.	Why the hell would dogs cause cat extinction on islands? That doesn't make sense; in fact, cats, more adaptable, could survive better in a small island. Whales are too adapted to live in the water; they can't leave the sea. And volcanic islands disappear with time. They erode away once their activity is finished. For instance, Hawa'ii's first islands were in the coast of Asia, but with time the older islands disappeared and new ones appeared southeastwards, until the archipelago moved into its current position Edited by Carlos, Nov 29 2008, 04:10 AM.
	Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro


lamna	Nov 29 2008, 11:06 AM Post #37
Posts: 21,140 Group: Global Mods Member #26 Joined: Jul 1, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: British	So Hawaii is moving east? Anyway I doubt cats would be wiped out by dogs, wildcats survive amongst wolves just fine. Dogs really don't bother with cats, there are much less annoying and violent meals available.
	Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. T.Neo Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna? [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash]


leptonosoma	Nov 29 2008, 12:33 PM Post #38
Official Timette Posts: 441 Group: Members Member #63 Joined: Aug 22, 2008 Gender: Female	There are no wild cats on Hawaii, only feral domestic cats. And a dog can kill a cat very easily, I've seen them do it. So dogs will dominate. Cats will stay small to conceal themselves from the dogs. Canines have been around for 40 million years, and stray dogs can survive nicely without humans. There is no question in my mind they can survive nicely as a feral population in Hawaii.
	metazoica.blogspot.com Get all the updates on the Metazoica site. Every evolutionist is encouraged to subscribe and comment.


lamna	Nov 29 2008, 01:52 PM Post #39
Posts: 21,140 Group: Global Mods Member #26 Joined: Jul 1, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: British	There are no wolves on Hawaii, only feral dogs. Level playing field, they should be able to keep up. Stray dog mostly live on scraps, stray cats do too, but they also hunt. They might do better, initially at least while all the wussy dogs are thinned out.
	Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. T.Neo Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna? [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash]


Carlos	Nov 29 2008, 04:08 PM Post #40
Adveho in me Lucifero Posts: 11,702 Group: Members Member #5 Joined: May 31, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: Portugayse Favorite Quote: Blame is the playing of children and is given to many like a gift that cannot be returned. Acceptance is the tool of the mature that is rarely loaned out.	I think both have chances of surviving, though cats would be top predators; dogs, better at scavenging and swimming, could take a niche similar to that of mesonychids or spinosaurs
	Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro


leptonosoma	Nov 29 2008, 05:38 PM Post #41
Official Timette Posts: 441 Group: Members Member #63 Joined: Aug 22, 2008 Gender: Female	Well, I have seen domestic dogs kill domestic cats. I've never seen a domestic cat kill a domestic dog. "Wussy" dogs (I assume you mean the smaller breeds) would surely die out without humans, but bigger dogs can make it on their own and dominate over cats. Probably become chase and kill predators that feed on the sheep and goats. While cats will stay small and feed on small birds and small rodents.
	metazoica.blogspot.com Get all the updates on the Metazoica site. Every evolutionist is encouraged to subscribe and comment.


Carlos	Nov 29 2008, 06:57 PM Post #42
Adveho in me Lucifero Posts: 11,702 Group: Members Member #5 Joined: May 31, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: Portugayse Favorite Quote: Blame is the playing of children and is given to many like a gift that cannot be returned. Acceptance is the tool of the mature that is rarely loaned out.	Look, dogs simply aren't suited to life in islands. Sure, some island ecosystems might be perfect for them, like the Kerguelen, but tropical islands, usually covered by dense rainforests, aren't the place where predators adapted to chase after their prey can live; cats, on the other hand, as well as birds of prey, are ambush predators, and so they are more adapted to such environments, thus they would prosper as dominant predators while dogs would be occupy more marginal niches
	Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro


Livyatan	Nov 29 2008, 09:06 PM Post #43
Posts: 1,998 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: May 24, 2008 Area of expertise: Future Evolution Favorite Quote: "Knowledge never springs from faith. It springs from doubt." - Humayun Azad Nationality: American	leptonosoma Nov 29 2008, 05:38 PM Well, I have seen domestic dogs kill domestic cats. I've never seen a domestic cat kill a domestic dog. "Wussy" dogs (I assume you mean the smaller breeds) would surely die out without humans, but bigger dogs can make it on their own and dominate over cats. Probably become chase and kill predators that feed on the sheep and goats. While cats will stay small and feed on small birds and small rodents. I don't understand where your insistence on dog domination over cats come from, but oh well. In island environments large dogs will not be able to radiate as easily and will be largely restricted by size limits. Cats will radiate much more easily, especially since small prey like birds and rodents are of much higher concentration and large prey (things large dogs would require) are scarce or would become scarce. Any sheep and goats wouldn't remain very large for very long, considering constrictions from the rainforest habitats and the scarcity of grains and other plants preferable to ruminants.
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Cynovolans	Nov 29 2008, 09:11 PM Post #44
Servant to Empress Min Posts: 1,170 Group: Members Member #24 Joined: Jun 30, 2008 Favorite Quote: "Where is the queen? Point the queen out to us!"-Myeonseong's murderers	This may add some humour to this cat versus dog: http://archives.starbulletin.com/2001/07/13/news/story4.html First one says that a woman walking her dog in Honolulu was attacked by a pack of feral cats.
	I wish I could give the public a true picture of the queen as she appeared at her best, but this would be impossible, even had she permitted a photograph to be taken, for her charming play of expression while in conversation, the character and intellect which were then revealed, were only half seen when the face was in repose. -Lilias Underwood when speaking of Empress Myeongseong "I was born in the dark. I went out into the light, and your Majesty, it is my displeasure to inform you that I have returned to the dark. I envision a Seoul of towering buildings filled with Western establishments that will place herself back above the Japanese barbarians. Great things lie ahead for the Kingdom, great things. We must take action, your Majesty, without hesitation, to further modernize this still ancient kingdom."-Min Young-ik to Empress Myeongseong


Yorick	Nov 29 2008, 09:12 PM Post #45
Adult Posts: 931 Group: Members Member #74 Joined: Sep 5, 2008 Nationality: American	Gotta agree. I think dogs will survive but they won't dominate cats who are perfectly adept at hunting rodents and birds.
	"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008)


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