Hawaii (After Man)

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Hawaii (After Man)
Topic Started: Sep 5 2008, 07:13 PM (3,651 Views)
Yorick	Sep 5 2008, 07:13 PM Post #1
Adult Posts: 931 Group: Members Member #74 Joined: Sep 5, 2008 Nationality: American	What would happen in Hawaii if mankind suddenly vanished or died by a plague? Dogs and cats are the closest thing they have to predators in the Hawaii islands. And mice and rats and surrounding fish and tropical birds are the only real prey. Hawaii isn't exactly know for it's agriculture so I'm guessing there aren't many pigs and and cows and chickens and sheep and goats and horses for our former pets to feed on? In each period of time I've listed for Hawaii After Man (AM), please write what would happen to the wildllife of Hawaii. 10 Years AM: I'm guessing feral cats and dogs would survive but numbers for dogs are low because mice and rats aren't simply large and abundant enough to be proper prey. They may resort to ocassional cannibalism and feeding on rival cats. 100-200 Years AM: 1000-5000 Years AM: Edited by Yorick, Sep 7 2008, 06:10 PM.
	"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008)

Replies:
Yorick	Sep 7 2008, 10:59 PM Post #16
Adult Posts: 931 Group: Members Member #74 Joined: Sep 5, 2008 Nationality: American	Ah. Scavengers then. Hunters when desperate.
	"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008)


Reedstilt	Sep 8 2008, 09:24 AM Post #17
Infant Posts: 80 Group: Members Member #53 Joined: Aug 2, 2008	This is probably a moot question. Unless the animals are continuously hoping from one island to another, the animals currently on the Big Island have about 5 million years, probably less, before the island erodes down to a small coral atoll, if the past islands are any indication.



irbaboon	Sep 8 2008, 12:19 PM Post #18
Adolescent Posts: 345 Group: Members Member #73 Joined: Sep 5, 2008	What could we expect to see in 5 million years, given what lives there now?



SIngemeister	Sep 8 2008, 02:43 PM Post #19
Hive Tyrant of the Essee Swarm Posts: 4,792 Group: Away Staff Member #49 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: Formerly Anglo-Irish, now Gribbly Favorite Quote: "That's the least funniest thing ever." "BURNING ORPHANS!"	Dogs are killers. Bull terriers can kill and used to kill rats. Alsatians, Dobermen, Rottweilers have histories of attacking people. Even labradors can kill. My dog's mother killed a swan. Lucky she wasn't put down.
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Carlos	Sep 8 2008, 03:00 PM Post #20
Adveho in me Lucifero Posts: 11,702 Group: Members Member #5 Joined: May 31, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: Portugayse Favorite Quote: Blame is the playing of children and is given to many like a gift that cannot be returned. Acceptance is the tool of the mature that is rarely loaned out.	Only because a dog can kill a long-necked duck doesn't mean dogs are efficient predators; there's no doubt dogs can kill, but they don't feed on their prey. Many dogs starve to death when far from humans
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SIngemeister	Sep 8 2008, 03:09 PM Post #21
Hive Tyrant of the Essee Swarm Posts: 4,792 Group: Away Staff Member #49 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: Formerly Anglo-Irish, now Gribbly Favorite Quote: "That's the least funniest thing ever." "BURNING ORPHANS!"	Yes, but a swan is far from an easy kill. A swan could probably cause a dog serious injuries. If a dog had to, after a while, say, two generations of scavenging, nature would kick back in and they would revert to killing and eating. Packs of feral dogs scavenge in cities. However, if those cities disappear, those dogs are probably close enough to come back to hunting.
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Carlos	Sep 8 2008, 03:29 PM Post #22
Adveho in me Lucifero Posts: 11,702 Group: Members Member #5 Joined: May 31, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: Portugayse Favorite Quote: Blame is the playing of children and is given to many like a gift that cannot be returned. Acceptance is the tool of the mature that is rarely loaned out.	Probably. If anything though, dogs are more likely to survive in islands like Hawaii than elsewhere, since in the main land they would be outcompeted by other predatory mammals
	Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro


Reedstilt	Sep 8 2008, 03:50 PM Post #23
Infant Posts: 80 Group: Members Member #53 Joined: Aug 2, 2008	Domesticated as my dog was, she was still surprisingly efficient at hunting. We had a problem with rats in our tool shed, but she ended up catching them. She had a fondness for birds as well. A large number of grackles settled in our neighborhood over during summer and if she was outside when they came to land in our backyard, she usually caught one. She got out one night and we couldn't find her until the next morning, when she came home with a dead raccoon. On top of that, when we went walking through the woods near my house, she'd chase deer and turkey for a while. Never managed to catch on, but assuming she had some like-minded friends, they probably could have. Speaking of deer, my roommate claims there's a sizable population of deer introduced in Hawaii. That would certainly help the dogs find a suitable meal.



Carlos	Sep 8 2008, 04:00 PM Post #24
Adveho in me Lucifero Posts: 11,702 Group: Members Member #5 Joined: May 31, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: Portugayse Favorite Quote: Blame is the playing of children and is given to many like a gift that cannot be returned. Acceptance is the tool of the mature that is rarely loaned out.	As I explained, the problem is not if dogs can kill decently; its if they eat the corpses of their victims. Even if dogs manage to become predators again I think they are too weak to kill an animal like a deer. Though, since Hawaii is an island, maybe with time its native deer will become smaller
	Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro


irbaboon	Sep 8 2008, 04:37 PM Post #25
Adolescent Posts: 345 Group: Members Member #73 Joined: Sep 5, 2008	Not to beat a dead horse, but my dachshund used to kill and completely devour squirrels. She would eat every thing but the last bit of fur at the tail (which contained no meat or bones. But back on track, what could arise on Hawaii in the 5 million years before the islands were eroded down?



Yorick	Sep 8 2008, 06:01 PM Post #26
Adult Posts: 931 Group: Members Member #74 Joined: Sep 5, 2008 Nationality: American	Quote: My dog's mother killed a swan. Don't you mean your mother's dog? Quote: Probably. If anything though, dogs are more likely to survive in islands like Hawaii than elsewhere, since in the main land they would be outcompeted by other predatory mammals Actually, they'd do better because they'd then interbreed with wolves and coyotes and dingos and jackals. Plus, there are raccoons and beavers and rabbits and hares and badgers and squirrel as well as mice and rats. Anyway, dogs always carried that vicious animal instinct of their wolf ancestry. With humans gone, it wouldn't be long till they'd become predators once more. Quote: ...its if they eat the corpses of their victims. Why wouldn't they? Quote: But back on track, what could arise on Hawaii in the 5 million years before the islands were eroded down? A jaguar-like descendant of feral cats? A coyote-like descendant of mongoose?
	"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008)


Carlos	Sep 8 2008, 06:04 PM Post #27
Adveho in me Lucifero Posts: 11,702 Group: Members Member #5 Joined: May 31, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: Portugayse Favorite Quote: Blame is the playing of children and is given to many like a gift that cannot be returned. Acceptance is the tool of the mature that is rarely loaned out.	Quote: Why wouldn't they? Most dogs can't associate the animals they kill with food, specially with humans providing them with food.
	Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro


Saxophlutist	Sep 8 2008, 06:16 PM Post #28
Adult Posts: 727 Group: Members Member #8 Joined: May 31, 2008	Yeah, while dogs have been known to be able to hunt down other animals, I've never really heard or even seen many accounts of a dog eating a dead animal or plant they found themselves without have an owner process and chop up meat and/or vegetables. Most dogs just either leave the food there or bring it to a human.



Reedstilt	Sep 9 2008, 01:01 AM Post #29
Infant Posts: 80 Group: Members Member #53 Joined: Aug 2, 2008	Dogs retain the instincts and the capabilities to kill prey; the fact that they typically don't eat it has more to do with the fact that they're not likely to be hungry since we keep feeding them. Take humans out of the picture, and a dog with the instincts and capabilities to kill prey will also start eating what it kills.



Livyatan	Sep 9 2008, 03:32 PM Post #30
Posts: 1,998 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: May 24, 2008 Area of expertise: Future Evolution Favorite Quote: "Knowledge never springs from faith. It springs from doubt." - Humayun Azad Nationality: American	The issue with dogs is not whether they can kill and eat something its that large, pack-hunting carnivores would require too much of the small Hawaii ecosystem. Even the goats and pigs that might survive would likely dwarf in size and become too little for packs of feral dogs. Small packs of medium-sized dogs stand any sort of chance in tropical Hawaii and even that is unlikely. Meanwhile, solitary feral cats would adjust much more easily and put less of a strain on the islands.
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