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Ark creationist exhibition
Topic Started: Jul 10 2016, 06:03 AM (1,832 Views)
Monster
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It's pretty trendy to be 'friends' with people with really different beliefs and politics, but can you really say you are friends with someone who believes you to be inferior because of what you are? I don't think you truly can, it will always be an uneven relationship, and I have no qualms about detaching from it avoiding people with such beliefs (at least if they are not actively challenging themselves on the issue). That goes for people who think I will burn in some hell for what I am as much as it goes for people who think women are less than men, the poor deserve it, or non-straight people are unnatural. I'm not going to try to wreck their lives over it or constantly argue but as long as they think that, we aren't on equal terms and I won't pretend I'm cool with that. They aren't necessarily bad but we aren't friends.
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Ebervalius
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Just because someone thinks you're going to hell doesn'te mean he or she believes you are not as good as them. Some of these people simply pity your soul, just that.

Note that my example involved a socialist and a liberal, which aren't exclusive and prejudiced ideologies per se. Racist and sexist people... That's another story.
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Sayornis
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GlarnBoudin
Jul 11 2016, 02:37 PM
Sweet Raptor Jesus, those cages don't look big enough at all for those things.
Also, just a thought: has any creationist put into consideration how all of those animals were to get to the Ark? A sloth or a koala's going to have a damn hard time getting to the Middle East.
Also, what about animals that need specific conditions to survive, like frogs or polar bears? How the hell would a several-hundred-year-old man living in the middle of the desert conceivably care for these animals?
According to some creationists, from what I've read, the animals weren't yet specialized for those kinds of habitats-- extreme environments like deserts and polar ice didn't exist before the Flood because the world's climate was uniform and stable. God created "baramins" (created kinds) pre-loaded with the genes their various descendants would need for later. So Noah wouldn't have too much trouble finding the baramin ancestors of sloths and polar bears in his neighborhood. This theory also conveniently saves space on the Ark because Noah took a pair (or seven pairs) of each baramin rather than each modern species!
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Aug 19 2016, 07:42 PM
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Pity for my soul does not make me feel like I'm seen as an equal. It doesn't mean I will shun this person if they have something else to offer but really, if someone literally believes I'll go to Hell then they do think there is something wrong or lesser about me.

Of course you can be friends with people with different opinions. Just not when one party thinks you are slightly less human than they are. I also have problems with people who have those views about groups I don't belong to, but I think I have more responsibility to call them out and try to explain the problem in that case. Better than simply expecting the target of their prejudices to defend themselves.
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Ebervalius
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Jul 11 2016, 03:36 PM
I also have problems with people who have those views about groups I don't belong to, but I think I have more responsibility to call them out and try to explain the problem in that case. Better than simply expecting the target of their prejudices to defend themselves.
Good to see there are still people in the world who think like this. Many leftist nowadays say that men, for example, can't speak in favor of women or that white people can't speak in favor of blacks because it's "None of your beeswax". I hate that so much.
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^So like Ayn Rands Objectivism then? In alternate history terms, I would really be interested in what a regime based off her views would look. It'd be both strikingly similar and strikingly different to Marxism.

Regarding the Demiurge, I don't have a literal interpretation myself and see it as at most a local if well documented flood- many cultures point to a large flood so there almost certainly seems to be merit to the idea of one.
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I suspect a lot of the flood myths ultimately come from the sea level rising at the end of the last ice age.
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Hey, their right to get freaky ends when it goes up my nose.


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Ebervalius
Jul 11 2016, 03:22 PM
Just because someone thinks you're going to hell doesn'te mean he or she believes you are not as good as them. Some of these people simply pity your soul, just that.

Note that my example involved a socialist and a liberal, which aren't exclusive and prejudiced ideologies per se. Racist and sexist people... That's another story.

Which is more or less the example here. Social conservatism is invariably correlated to some form of sexiam, racism, homophobia, because it is defined by having people adhering to traditional norms.

To be friends with someone who ultimately does not truly respect you is ridiculous.
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Rodlox
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Jul 10 2016, 09:51 PM
Just gonna drop this little tidbit on you - Intelligence is not synonymous with knowing a lot of things.
or as they say in the latest BOURNE movie's preview:

"I remember everything."
"Just because you remember everything, doesn't mean you know everything."
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GlarnBoudin
Jul 11 2016, 02:37 PM
Sweet Raptor Jesus, those cages don't look big enough at all for those things.
Also, just a thought: has any creationist put into consideration how all of those animals were to get to the Ark? A sloth or a koala's going to have a damn hard time getting to the Middle East.
didn't more than one Victorian-era or Edwardian-era (or...?) geologist suggest that all the continents were at one point united, and it was only the Flood that broke them apart?

Dragon
Jul 11 2016, 04:43 PM
I suspect a lot of the flood myths ultimately come from the sea level rising at the end of the last ice age.
people are like cats - we can swim, but we also hate water. (particularly when there's too much of it)
Edited by Rodlox, Jul 11 2016, 05:26 PM.
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Forbidden3
Jul 10 2016, 05:14 PM
Yeah, and even if you don't agree with creationists on that concept, that doesn't mean they can't be decent people
You probably wouldn't say that if you had ever spent any significant time in the American Midwest. In my experience people who believe in that sort of garbage are bible thumping tools that actively seek to impose their own religious beliefs and values on others and look down on everybody that doesn't share their worldview.

Quote:
 
didn't more than one Victorian-era or Edwardian-era (or...?) geologist suggest that all the continents were at one point united, and it was only the Flood that broke them apart?

Ah yes, the Kalimdor Theory.
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The only creationist guy I happen to know personally is okay, I guess. He even has an interest in paleontology, which I find oddly incompatible with his beliefs.
Edited by Ebervalius, Jul 11 2016, 05:51 PM.
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Quote:
 
You probably wouldn't say that if you had ever spent any significant time in the American Midwest. In my experience people who believe in that sort of garbage are bible thumping tools that actively seek to impose their own religious beliefs and values on others and look down on everybody that doesn't share their worldview.


I've seen plenty of this as well, though most of it has been on the internet (thankfully). That sort of attitude among the religious crowd doesn't seem to be too common outside of the US, which is probably why Forbidden3 and I have the opinions on the matter that we do. From personal experience (and I have a lot of personal experience with this), most people with views like that around here don't try to shove their views down everyone's throats, and most don't stick their noses up at people who don't share their opinions. They'll tell you about their beliefs and why they believe them, but they won't get angry at you for disagreeing with them (this goes for general religious beliefs as well as political views and young earth creationism). The aggressiveness and snobbery you're describing is actually one of the things I find irksome about American Evangelical Christianity as an Anglican, in addition to the practical worship of the constitution in a lot of places, the BS idea that you have to be a republican to be a proper Christian, the prevalence of prosperity theology, et cetera.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life," John 3:16

A neat pixel animation of a future cowboy


trex841
 
Hey, their right to get freaky ends when it goes up my nose.


I think this describes what dinosaurs are like now

Click for something good. Click this too.
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Sayornis
Jul 11 2016, 03:35 PM
According to some creationists, from what I've read, the animals weren't yet specialized for those kinds of habitats-- extreme environments like deserts and polar ice didn't exist before the Flood because the world's climate was uniform and stable. God created "baramins" (created kinds) pre-loaded with the genes their various descendants would need for later. So Noah wouldn't have too much trouble finding the baramin ancestors of sloths and polar bears in his neighborhood. This theory also conveniently saves space on the Ark because Noah took a pair (or seven pairs) of each baramin rather than each modern species!
Ah yes, the baramin concept. This creates a rather interesting irony, as essentially people who believe in this are completely fine with the notion of a whole shitload of species developing in a span of just a few centuries or millenia but find it outrageous and impossible to imagine species developing through millions of years of evolution.

Rodlox
 
didn't more than one Victorian-era or Edwardian-era (or...?) geologist suggest that all the continents were at one point united, and it was only the Flood that broke them apart?


Yes, and some creationists are still claiming this today. Some actually claim the breaking apart of the continents happened sometime after the Flood, which gives them an explanation of how all the animals could disperse over the whole world without worrying about all those pesky oceanic crossings. Though it still doesn't give them any explanation for various features of biogeography such as why Australia's mammals are predominantly marsupials when the rest of the world's mammalian fauna are predominantly or exclusively placentals.
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Dragon
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There's a lot of strange, absurd, and imaginative stuff that comes from the folks trying to scientifically prove young earth creationism. My personal favourite in terms of strangeness is the idea that the tectonic plates are actually floating on giant oceans, and the core of the Earth is liquid water like Naboo in the Phantom Menace. This is a way to explain where all the water came from during the flood. Of course, there's one little flaw with this theory; volcanoes.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life," John 3:16

A neat pixel animation of a future cowboy


trex841
 
Hey, their right to get freaky ends when it goes up my nose.


I think this describes what dinosaurs are like now

Click for something good. Click this too.
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