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Cash 4 Common Names*; archaic and brand new common names, delivered to your internet place(s)
Topic Started: Jun 2 2016, 05:21 PM (671 Views)
Dr Nitwhite
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Have you got any old, unwanted, or archaic COMMON NAMES lying around?! Well this is the place for you! Swim, slither, run, or glide on down to Cash 4 Common Names (patent pending) and give us your archaic COMMON NAMES for money!!* Also selling all NEW COMMON NAMES!

Alright, now for the serious bit. Hello SE. I have oft thought to myself "Why don't dinosaurs have names other than the Latin?" or "This name disregards taxonomy/habitat choice/causes classrooms to giggle/and or is nonsensical." This is a place to discuss common names, old and amazing archaic ones (Common Tern--->Tearr), as well as replacements you think would go well with animals currently holding common names. (Groundhog---->Common Marmot). Hell, why not name extinct animals, or animals alive today with no common names? So leave your thoughts here!

Oh, and please, nothing stupid. (I decree all owls to be henceforth known as...fluffballs!) Violators will be prosecuted.**


*Cash 4 Common Names (patent pending) does not promise any cash for common names. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Squat. Goose eggs.
**Not really. We PROMISE.
Edited by Dr Nitwhite, Jun 3 2016, 01:56 PM.
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Niedfaru
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An idea I have often though about. I don't know about taking the time to name all extinct animals: common names arise because people talk about them, and people don't talk about most extinct animals outside of a (psuedo)scientific context. With most dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures, their common name is the genus name. The main exception I can think of is T. Rex, where a species is the common name for the genus. Because these names are so firmly embedded in people's minds now, it would be meaningless trying to uproot them, and new names for dinosaurs they've never heard of wouldn't matter to them a bit.

However, I do like the idea of common names vs scientific names for spec work where there is a reason to expect sapient observers to give them common names.

As to old names for extant organisms, this kind of change is a social thing: a lot of the time these names were regional, and so the standard term often wasn't taken from them. As the standard became more widely used, the regional names died out. I agree though, many of them are excellent. Seabirds, especially, as they often preserve very old ties to our linguistic neighbours, as sailors and fishermen brought back foreign names and adapted them.
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malicious-monkey
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I often struggle to name speculative organisms when there is no sapient observer who "grew up" with them. Like, we have names for dog and cat that only mean dog and cat because our association with them predates the English language. But there's no name that comes with the fossils we dig up, or the aliens we might find. So we name them, but these names are often descriptive and clunky. Even scientific names are like this - contrast Velociraptor mongoliensis, Mongolian speedthief with Canis lupus, dog wolf
Edited by malicious-monkey, Jun 28 2016, 11:27 PM.
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Finncredibad
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Ah yes, I'm here t trade in the name of Dog and Cat.
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Flisch
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Fun fact: Eventually in the far future we will have "common" names for dinosaurs as well, when the language has changed enough to corrupt words like Triceratops into something else.
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Niedfaru
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I'm not so sure about that. I think if any change occurs, it will occur in both the common and scientific variants equally, unless something drastically changes the social divide between the two.
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Finncredibad
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Flisch
Jun 29 2016, 04:40 AM
Fun fact: Eventually in the far future we will have "common" names for dinosaurs as well, when the language has changed enough to corrupt words like Triceratops into something else.
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Dr Nitwhite
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Tet the Zoologist
Jun 28 2016, 11:42 PM
Ah yes, I'm here t trade in the name of Dog and Cat.
Here, have

Dog- House Wolf
Cat- Common Snatcher

(both of my own devising)




As far as good archaic bird names are concerned (as well as a good bit of wood lore), I highly recommend you pick up "A Natural History of North American Birds of Eastern and Central North America" by Edward Howe Forebush and John Bichard May. Here are a few I found in there-

Anhinga- Water Turkey
Frigate Bird- Man-o'-War Bird
Snowy Egret- Little Plume Bird
Louisiana Heron- Lady of the Waters
Black-crowned Night Heron- Quawk, Buttermunk, Plunket, Wagin, Grosbec, Bittrun (which may have been a misprint)
American Kestrel- Windhover, Killy-hawk
Common Tern- Tearr, Mackerel Gull, Summer Gull, Sea Swallow, Medrick
Northern Flicker- Pidgeon Woodpecker, High-hole, Wake-up, Harrywicket, Gaffer Woodpecker, Yellow Hammer, and so forth (yes, the book says that).

Many of these names might serve as inspiration for my own spec creatures.

When it comes to common names of extinct species, I have seen a few different attempts made to create them. These are usually in two forms, a translation of the Latin (not for me, these are always more clunky than the names themselves) such as in "A Field Guide to Mesozoic Birds and Other Winged Dinosaurs" by Matthew P. Martyniuk (which is also a delightful little book). The others are always in media where the characters are transported back in time or re-create dinosaurs. The people involved often create little common names for the animals that either shorten the Latin, are preexisting names for living animals, or reflect their behavior. While these are always annoyingly flashy (like Shrieker or something to that effect), they would be inevitable in such a scenario. Here are a few of my own devising (a group of English speakers is transported to the distant past because "hand wave" and let to stew for a time). These are also from random time periods.

Microraptor- Crow
T. rex- Trex
Oviraptor- Desert Turkey
Sinornithosaurus- Snake-bird
I'm out of ideas.

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I often struggle to name speculative organisms when there is no sapient observer who "grew up" with them. Like, we have names for dog and cat that only mean dog and cat because our association with them predates the English language. But there's no name that comes with the fossils we dig up, or the aliens we might find. So we name them, but these names are often descriptive and clunky. Even scientific names are like this - contrast Velociraptor mongoliensis, Mongolian speedthief with Canis lupus, dog wolf
This. I can see this being especially difficult for aliens or highly derived species, but It isn't so hard for projects set in the near future. (there are already a buch of jays, why not a few more?)


Also, a brief thank you to Niedfaru, as I would have otherwise completely forgotten about this topic had he not posted on it (I had intended to update this).





Edited by Dr Nitwhite, Jun 29 2016, 09:59 AM.
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We interrupt your regular programming to bring you this cutting edge report.
ATTENDANCE DROPS DRASTICALLY ON SE SERVER
This past Monday on Discord, famous server Speculative Evolution took a hit in the attendance office when it's offline member list suddenly reappeared. Mods scrambled to rectify the situation, but unfortunately there was little anyone could do. Server member Ivan was asked what he thought of the situation. "So long as Flisch, lord of machines and scion of Urborg lives, all will be well". SE, (in)famous for it's eccentric userbase, has recently been spiraling downward, and now we have hard conformation of the decline. Moderator "High Lord" Icthyander states "There is nothing to be concerned about, Discord is merely changing its UI again", but members are beginning to suspect the honesty of their staff.
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Flisch
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Niedfaru
Jun 29 2016, 08:26 AM
I'm not so sure about that. I think if any change occurs, it will occur in both the common and scientific variants equally, unless something drastically changes the social divide between the two.
Not necessarily. It is already starting with "T-Rex" or "Raptors" for example. Give it a few more centuries and you might have a sufficient gap between the scientific terms and the common names.
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colddigger
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Flisch
Jun 29 2016, 04:40 AM
Fun fact: Eventually in the far future we will have "common" names for dinosaurs as well, when the language has changed enough to corrupt words like Triceratops into something else.
Oh you mean three horns.
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Niedfaru
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Flisch
Jun 29 2016, 12:15 PM
Niedfaru
Jun 29 2016, 08:26 AM
I'm not so sure about that. I think if any change occurs, it will occur in both the common and scientific variants equally, unless something drastically changes the social divide between the two.
Not necessarily. It is already starting with "T-Rex" or "Raptors" for example. Give it a few more centuries and you might have a sufficient gap between the scientific terms and the common names.
Fair point. I still can't see it going very far, though, unless people start talking about all kinds of prehistoric creatures a lot more than they currently do i non technical circumstances. Maybe we'll see more divergent common names for the most popular ones, the ones that appear in films and memes...
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Kamidio
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Pretty sure The Land Before Time gave us all the names we need, as Cold pointed out so subtly. Three horns, longnecks, fliers, sharpteeth, swimmers, et cetera.
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Flisch
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Niedfaru
Jun 30 2016, 01:49 AM
Flisch
Jun 29 2016, 12:15 PM
Niedfaru
Jun 29 2016, 08:26 AM
I'm not so sure about that. I think if any change occurs, it will occur in both the common and scientific variants equally, unless something drastically changes the social divide between the two.
Not necessarily. It is already starting with "T-Rex" or "Raptors" for example. Give it a few more centuries and you might have a sufficient gap between the scientific terms and the common names.
Fair point. I still can't see it going very far, though, unless people start talking about all kinds of prehistoric creatures a lot more than they currently do i non technical circumstances. Maybe we'll see more divergent common names for the most popular ones, the ones that appear in films and memes...
Well, yeah none of the obscure ones will get common names, but it wouldn't be all that different from some of modern insect species that have only been described scientifically. Basically it will be only for those that show up frequently in popular media, especially for children.
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malicious-monkey
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Jun 30 2016, 02:42 AM
Pretty sure The Land Before Time gave us all the names we need, as Cold pointed out so subtly. Three horns, longnecks, fliers, sharpteeth, swimmers, et cetera.
The problem with these names is there's nothing to indicate they are dinosaurs. Plenty of animals can be described as "swimmers" and in a world with muiltiple unrelated swimmers, there needs to be names that indicate what kind.
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Kamidio
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Hence why LBT also used other terms. Duckie was referred to as a 'bigmouth swimmer', and dinosaurs like Baryonyx would be referred to as 'bigmouth sharptooth'.

Also, three horn can literally only refer to one thing.


Though, I'd like to point out that most dinosaurs are already well known by their scientific names. Hell, Tyrannosaurus rex is probably the only animal people know by both genus and species.

Everyone knows 'triceratops', 'brontosaurus', 'stegosaurus', and 'velociraptor'. And while not as well known, if pressed people can remember 'brachiosaurus', 'plesiosaurus', 'liopleruodon', 'deinonychus', and 'iguanadon'.
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