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Naturalism vs Post-naturalism
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Topic Started: Apr 11 2016, 11:13 AM (4,219 Views)
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Kamidio
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Apr 14 2016, 06:55 PM
Post #91
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Invasive species are nearly impossible to eradicate. Sad to say, but in the long run it'd be rather beneficial.
For example, in recent news, rhinos were being relocated to Australia because African poachers will never be able to afford to fly there. thus, the species is saved through relocation.
Now look at the Burmese Python. It's vulnerable, and despite this, the ones roaming around the Everglades are labelled 'invasive' and hunting is encouraged - despite the fact that they're a threatened species.
There is literally no difference between the two situations, except that one is being killed because it's a 'big scary snake' and not an 'ugly-cute' mammal.
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flashman63
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Apr 14 2016, 07:05 PM
Post #92
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- Kamineigh
- Apr 14 2016, 06:41 PM
Wait wait wait. There are Komodo dragons in Oz? I knew about the Floridian monkeys, but Aussie death lizards? Tell me more.
It's been suggested as a replacement for the niche left empty by Megalania.
- Scrublord
- Apr 14 2016, 06:43 PM
So you think we shouldn't bother trying to wipe out invasive species, even when it's obvious that they're a problem?
No. Absolutely not. No more then I think the primitive primates who landed on Madagascar should have been exterminated. We are (or at least will be for the next few million years) the new method of biogeographical transmission, and I think that's bloody awesome. Kudzu and llamas in the Ozarks is just cool.
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Travel back through time and space, to the edge of man's beggining... discover a time when man, woman and lizard roamed free, and untamed!
It is an epoch of mammoths, a time of raptors!
A tale of love in the age of tyrannosaurs!
An epic from the silver screen, brought right to your door!
Travel back to A Million Years BC
-----------------------------------------------------
Proceedings of the Miskatonic University Department of Zoology
Cosmic Horror is but a dissertation away
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LittleLazyLass
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Apr 14 2016, 07:17 PM
Post #93
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- Scrublord
- Apr 14 2016, 06:43 PM
So you think we shouldn't bother trying to wipe out invasive species, even when it's obvious that they're a problem? Well, if you're arguing there's a creative drive for conservation - yes. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to eradicate invasive species, of course we should, but his statements fall under yours.
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Me  Forum user Uncanny Gemstar drew what is supposed to be a me. Thanks! Spoiler: click to toggle As they walk in, they're greeted by a small, poorly kept pathway leading to a poorly constructed Japanese-style gate. Behind this, a small field made up of corn, rice, wheat, potatoes, among other plants is contrasted by large piles of books, as well as a few rather out of place looking laptops. Off in the corner, a small woman, with long, striped, and strikingly colorful socks, no shoes, unremarkable denim shorts, a large, fancy black coat, arm warmers, glasses, a tuque, and somewhat unkempt, mid-length blue-and-pink-streaked red hair, is rummaging through a trash bin, located behind a sign saying "employees only". She continues this for a while (walking behind a wall to change her outfit now and then), until one of her visitors coughs. Startled, she looks up, apologizes, and grabs a handful of textbooks and novels before daintily running off to join them. What, you want me to tell you what these mean? Predenterra The (Lost) Lost World The Standing World Read First Clarifications on my sex and genderSorry if I come off as rude, I don't put much thought into word choice sometimes. I'm also super prone to editing my posts, sometimes multiple times, in the minutes following posting. For the love of god, take my posts from my earlier days on the forum with a grain of salt. I was not particularly knowledgeable or mature back then. Some of them are so cringe-worthy I can't even bring myself to look at them. Words Maybe Great Words - Words To Spec By
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Yeah, and even if you don't agree with creationists on that concept, that doesn't mean they can't be decent people. I have friends who are creationist (possibly even young earth) that I get along with fine in general life. I don't think they're right of course, but that doesn't make them intellectual degenerates. ~~The Words of forbidden3
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Even though he is our creator, that does not afford him the right to take our lives on a whim. But that is the thinking of a homs. He is a god. Such morals cannot apply to gods. So you think we should just shut up and die?! If that is the fate decided by a god. You are mistaken if you think we will simply accept such a fate and wait to die. We'll never stop fighting. Not till the end. To Zanza, the outcome is the same. Thus your logic is flawed.
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When freaky aliens give you lemons, make freaky alien lemonade.
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But Souls are delicious. They're like bacon - they taste good on anything. But if you eat them, you completely remove them from existence! They can't move on or... or be reincarnated! Huh. I never really gave it much thought. Besides, what do you mean by reincarnation anyway? You know, being reborn as someone or something else. Which means different body, different memories, different experiences, yes? So isn't being reborn as "something else" the same as being "removed from existence"? I... I... eating souls isn't right! That depends on your definition of "right". All living things survive by eating other living things. So what? You're a god. You should be above all that! Gods are above living things, which doesn't necessarily mean we care about them.
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Scrublord
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Apr 14 2016, 07:20 PM
Post #94
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- flashman63
- Apr 14 2016, 07:05 PM
No. Absolutely not. No more then I think the primitive primates who landed on Madagascar should have been exterminated. We are (or at least will be for the next few million years) the new method of biogeographical transmission, and I think that's bloody awesome. Kudzu and llamas in the Ozarks is just cool.
What if those invasive species threaten a species that we do legitimately want to see preserved? Take the giant tortoises of the Galapagos islands, for example. Everybody loves them; they're practically mascots for evolution, conservation, and island tourism. But they're being threatened by invasive goats that eat the plants they eat. So at this point do we just throw our hands in the air and say "**** it", or do we do what we can to preserve the tortoises?
Also, as someone who lives in the South, I can say that kudzu is objectively not cool.
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flashman63
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Apr 14 2016, 07:36 PM
Post #95
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Yes, in that case I would agree, but only because goats are boring- not any moral or objective reasoning. If it was, like, orangutans that were killing the tortoises, I'd probably just shrug my arms.
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Travel back through time and space, to the edge of man's beggining... discover a time when man, woman and lizard roamed free, and untamed!
It is an epoch of mammoths, a time of raptors!
A tale of love in the age of tyrannosaurs!
An epic from the silver screen, brought right to your door!
Travel back to A Million Years BC
-----------------------------------------------------
Proceedings of the Miskatonic University Department of Zoology
Cosmic Horror is but a dissertation away
-----------------------------------------------------
Some dickhead's deviantART
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LittleLazyLass
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Apr 14 2016, 07:39 PM
Post #96
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I'll admit, I do feel moral obligation to save them, and eradicate the invasive species; but I can't justify it.
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totally not British, b-baka!
You like me (Unlike) I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess.
Me  Forum user Uncanny Gemstar drew what is supposed to be a me. Thanks! Spoiler: click to toggle As they walk in, they're greeted by a small, poorly kept pathway leading to a poorly constructed Japanese-style gate. Behind this, a small field made up of corn, rice, wheat, potatoes, among other plants is contrasted by large piles of books, as well as a few rather out of place looking laptops. Off in the corner, a small woman, with long, striped, and strikingly colorful socks, no shoes, unremarkable denim shorts, a large, fancy black coat, arm warmers, glasses, a tuque, and somewhat unkempt, mid-length blue-and-pink-streaked red hair, is rummaging through a trash bin, located behind a sign saying "employees only". She continues this for a while (walking behind a wall to change her outfit now and then), until one of her visitors coughs. Startled, she looks up, apologizes, and grabs a handful of textbooks and novels before daintily running off to join them. What, you want me to tell you what these mean? Predenterra The (Lost) Lost World The Standing World Read First Clarifications on my sex and genderSorry if I come off as rude, I don't put much thought into word choice sometimes. I'm also super prone to editing my posts, sometimes multiple times, in the minutes following posting. For the love of god, take my posts from my earlier days on the forum with a grain of salt. I was not particularly knowledgeable or mature back then. Some of them are so cringe-worthy I can't even bring myself to look at them. Words Maybe Great Words - Words To Spec By
-
It would have to be something extremely alien, pushing the limits of our imagination. But those are always my favorite kinds of life. ~~The Words of The Xenologist
- Words To Live By
-
Ignorance is never insulting if you're willing to learn, we're all ignorant about most things. ~~The Words of Lamna
- Words I Live By
-
Yeah, and even if you don't agree with creationists on that concept, that doesn't mean they can't be decent people. I have friends who are creationist (possibly even young earth) that I get along with fine in general life. I don't think they're right of course, but that doesn't make them intellectual degenerates. ~~The Words of forbidden3
Member Quotes - jman123
-
Ass-breathing fish-lizards? Sounds like a punk rock band
- Sheather
-
"Holy fucking shit a toilet paper roll! Our favorite thing!"
- Urufumarukai
-
Tyrannosaurus aquastronka
- Kamineigh
-
Myo, if you don't stop reading the YouTube comments...
- Lamna
-
Are you saying what I think you're saying?
Sheather bathes in cum?
- Cephylus
-
And last night I dreamed I was blowing up a Kindergarten with a grenade launcher for no particular reason...
- revin
-
Oh, and of course more people get killed by selfies than by sharks. Of course.
- Parasky
-
SHEEEEAAAAATTTTTTHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
- whachamacalit2
-
The smell of rotting flesh really kills my appetite, surprising, but the visual appearance of corpses makes me hungry. Is that weird?
- Ebervalius
-
I mean, let us say I'm a genderfluid blurflux demi-romantic woman who is sexually attracted to men, but only if they are Melanesian and have a voice like that of Nicholas Cage. Okay, so what?
- trex841
-
When I first saw that picture, I thought you were dissecting a condom.
- Mr Mysterio
-
All hail Robo-Stalin.
- Peashyjah
-
Seems like everything in this project is now dead.
- Stealth Rock
-
Seagulls are pretty much trees, right?
- Watcher
-
We all must finish chapters of our lives to go on to the next. Sometime this means leaving behind versions of ourselves that don't want to die.
- Yiqi15
-
For April fool's, we had to make an orgasm that resembled a human foot.
- Flisch
-
im the black market
- CaledonianWarrior96
-
He was a skater birb, she said tweet you later birb
- Most People at Some Point
-
Quotes - Some dude called plucas1 from Youtube comments
-
Funny, isn't it, that our world needs Clark Kent a lot more than Superman.
- Xenoblade Chronicles
-
Even though he is our creator, that does not afford him the right to take our lives on a whim. But that is the thinking of a homs. He is a god. Such morals cannot apply to gods. So you think we should just shut up and die?! If that is the fate decided by a god. You are mistaken if you think we will simply accept such a fate and wait to die. We'll never stop fighting. Not till the end. To Zanza, the outcome is the same. Thus your logic is flawed.
- Hades - Kid Icarus Uprising
-
When freaky aliens give you lemons, make freaky alien lemonade.
- Kid Icarus Uprising
-
But Souls are delicious. They're like bacon - they taste good on anything. But if you eat them, you completely remove them from existence! They can't move on or... or be reincarnated! Huh. I never really gave it much thought. Besides, what do you mean by reincarnation anyway? You know, being reborn as someone or something else. Which means different body, different memories, different experiences, yes? So isn't being reborn as "something else" the same as being "removed from existence"? I... I... eating souls isn't right! That depends on your definition of "right". All living things survive by eating other living things. So what? You're a god. You should be above all that! Gods are above living things, which doesn't necessarily mean we care about them.
- Some Dude on BBC Two
-
You are being shagged... by a flightless parrot.
Stuff
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Scrublord
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Apr 14 2016, 07:41 PM
Post #97
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Same with the mosquitoes that threaten the Hawaiian honeycreepers, then? Honeycreepers are cool and rare, mosquitoes are annoying and common. (I. . .think I'm beginning to grasp your logic)
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My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One
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In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph
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flashman63
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Apr 14 2016, 07:43 PM
Post #98
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Yes. I would eradicate Mosquitoes- but I would not eradicate mustelids or warthogs.
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Travel back through time and space, to the edge of man's beggining... discover a time when man, woman and lizard roamed free, and untamed!
It is an epoch of mammoths, a time of raptors!
A tale of love in the age of tyrannosaurs!
An epic from the silver screen, brought right to your door!
Travel back to A Million Years BC
-----------------------------------------------------
Proceedings of the Miskatonic University Department of Zoology
Cosmic Horror is but a dissertation away
-----------------------------------------------------
Some dickhead's deviantART
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Kamidio
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Apr 14 2016, 07:44 PM
Post #99
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The Game Master of the SSU:NC
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Not to mention mosquitoes are pests in general. The world in general would benefit from total mosquito eradication.
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SSU:NC - Finding a new home.
Quotes - Steve Irwin
-
I have no fear of losing my life - if I have to save a koala or a crocodile or a kangaroo or a snake, mate, I will save it.
- Satoru Iwata - Heart of a Gamer
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Even if we come from different sides of the world, speak different languages, even if we eat too many chips or rice balls, even if we wave different tastes in games, every one of us here today is identical in the most important way: each one of us was the heart of a gamer.
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You should not have come here. This is not a place of honor. No great deed is commemorated here. Nothing of value is here. What is here is dangerous and repulsive.
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You can't be 100% certain Barack Obama is currently the US president, or that the nation of Canada even exists.
- Dan Avidan
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See, what I like to do now as an adult is take all that anger and frustration and push it down deep inside of me, until it becomes a seething white core of pure hate.
- Dan Avidan
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Follow your stupid fuckin' dreams.
WAA
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Scrublord
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Apr 14 2016, 07:46 PM
Post #100
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You know, I think way back when we had a "least favorite animal" thread. Mosquitoes were my choice. That could cause. . . issues. Remember, "for want of a nail, the kingdom was lost."
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My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One
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In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph
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flashman63
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Apr 14 2016, 07:48 PM
Post #101
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- Scrublord
- Apr 14 2016, 07:46 PM
That could cause. . . issues. Remember, "for want of a nail, the kingdom was lost." I wouldn't kill them all- they keep jungles impenetrable and mysterious. Though I guess my actually morality which does apply to people would compel me to kill all of them...
So yeah, kill all mosquitoes. Lets see what happens when we tip over a domino.
|
Travel back through time and space, to the edge of man's beggining... discover a time when man, woman and lizard roamed free, and untamed!
It is an epoch of mammoths, a time of raptors!
A tale of love in the age of tyrannosaurs!
An epic from the silver screen, brought right to your door!
Travel back to A Million Years BC
-----------------------------------------------------
Proceedings of the Miskatonic University Department of Zoology
Cosmic Horror is but a dissertation away
-----------------------------------------------------
Some dickhead's deviantART
|
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|
flashman63
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Apr 14 2016, 07:48 PM
Post #102
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My view is essentially "The natural world exists for my amusement". Which probably makes me sound like a massive dick.
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Travel back through time and space, to the edge of man's beggining... discover a time when man, woman and lizard roamed free, and untamed!
It is an epoch of mammoths, a time of raptors!
A tale of love in the age of tyrannosaurs!
An epic from the silver screen, brought right to your door!
Travel back to A Million Years BC
-----------------------------------------------------
Proceedings of the Miskatonic University Department of Zoology
Cosmic Horror is but a dissertation away
-----------------------------------------------------
Some dickhead's deviantART
|
| |
|
Scrublord
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Apr 14 2016, 07:51 PM
Post #103
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Great, I've spent all this time debating with Mr. Mxyzptlk.
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My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One
Deviantart Account: http://elsqiubbonator.deviantart.com
In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph
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flashman63
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Apr 14 2016, 07:58 PM
Post #104
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All views on naturalism are arbitrary, so why not?
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Travel back through time and space, to the edge of man's beggining... discover a time when man, woman and lizard roamed free, and untamed!
It is an epoch of mammoths, a time of raptors!
A tale of love in the age of tyrannosaurs!
An epic from the silver screen, brought right to your door!
Travel back to A Million Years BC
-----------------------------------------------------
Proceedings of the Miskatonic University Department of Zoology
Cosmic Horror is but a dissertation away
-----------------------------------------------------
Some dickhead's deviantART
|
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HangingThief
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Apr 14 2016, 08:02 PM
Post #105
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- Scrublord
- Apr 14 2016, 05:41 PM
- HangingThief
- Apr 14 2016, 05:32 PM
- lamna
- Apr 14 2016, 04:33 PM
If you're shopping around for reasons for the natural world, obviously we need a lot of it so we don't, you know, die. But the unimportant stuff, like tigers and great Plains white fringed orchids. Because people enjoy them. Why do we have art? Why don't we just wear all the same utilitarian clothes? Why do people go to the cinema? Because it's pleasant. I want my big water feature to have orca in it, and I want my rockery to have snow leopards. - Quote:
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I dunno, human living standards will never be the same as they were for the original hunter gatherers. Farmers may have taken over because we can breed faster, but compared to even the modern city dwelling 'farmer' hunter- gatherers lived a life of health and ease. You won't see a stressed, diabetic hunter- gatherer who works ten hours a day, nor one who's starving to death among thousands of others in a desolate, ruined landscape.
Noble savage nonsense. Hunter gathers get stressed, they have to work hard, and sometimes they die of starvation. Some of them even have diabetes. Many of them have access to nice stuff now, but that's only because they have contact with us fallen, downtrodden, ungodly farmers who have time to make condoms and smart phones and oil lamps.
I was talking about ancient/prehistoric hunter gatherer civilizations. Y'know, before the farmers showed up. You're confusing 'noble savage' with the original affluent society theory. Despite common belief, life for early hunter gatherers wasn't a constant life or death struggle. They rarely starved, had access to a rich and varied diet, were physically fit and probably spent around fifteen hours a week at 'work'. Look at the artifacts they left behind, these people had time on their hands. They may not have been as "safe" as we are today, but at least their fight or flight response actually served its purpose rather than being bottled up and transformed into the poisonous substance we now know as stress. Farmers may have overpowered hunter gatherers by sheer numbers, but farmers as a rule sacrifice quality for quantity. Compared to a hunter gatherer, a farmer was overworked, unhappy and unhealthy. And even today, most of humanitie's major problems can be traced back to too many people trying to milk everything they have for all it's worth. All wars are fought over shortages, amiright? I suggest reading Guns, Germs and Steel if you haven't. (Before saying anything about modern medicine, the book explains why the farmer's lifestyle is the main reason we even need modern medicine.)
So are you saying the best thing to do is to get rid of everything meaningful accomplished over the past 10,000 years and go back to the caves? I'm just saying that our lives aren't necessarily better than theirs were. Just because there's a lot of us, and we have all these new toys and complex political systems, doesn't mean that our civilization is better and people live fuller lives. Like I said we seem to prefer quantity over quality.
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Hey.
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