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Naturalism vs Post-naturalism
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Topic Started: Apr 11 2016, 11:13 AM (4,222 Views)
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Mr Mysterio
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Apr 12 2016, 04:44 PM
Post #46
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Petition to rename Earth to Trash World.
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Dumb Quotes "and then I fired again. and then I missed. and then I fired. and then I fired, and I missed. I missed both times. and then I fired, and I missed. this went on for several hours. and then I fired. and then I missed. and then I was out of bullets. and then I got sad. I had a popsicle. and then I passed out in the snow. and then I woke up. and then I reloaded. and then I fired. and then I missed. I missed again. I fired. I hit something, but it wasn't what I was going for, so I guess I missed. I passed out again. had another popsicle. I had a dream that I was firing at something. I missed. oh, so she can pick a snowball fight with 'em. I threw up a snowball at 'em. I missed. I packed another snowball into my gun. that's my secret weapon. I missed. yeah, she's really something. I threw a snowball at her. I missed. I passed out. I woke up with a popsicle stick in my mouth. don't piss me off woman. I'll take a swing you, I'll miss though. I guarantee it. then I'll take another swing. and I'll miss. then I'll have myself a popsicle. would you care for a popsicle? just don't bring it into the sauna. I reached into the fridge for another popsicle. I missed. I got the cabbage. I put it back, but I missed. I dropped it on the floor. long story short, missed." -- Nancy Drew The White Wolf of Icicle Creek: Twist of Fate - PART 3 - Game Grumps
"When Ron the Mighty has stood in front of the gate of heaven he begins to denounce it. He cries, 'heaven is for those too scared of nothingness, I will go no further then my mortal flesh will carry. This mirror is the sick bed of heaven Harry, the eternity of pansy lies.' Ronnie will have nothing to do with the mirror, he is only concerned with the flesh and blood of the now. This destroys Harry. Ron leaves him to contemplate his stupid mirror, and the design of the cosmos versus the terminal beauty of being a wizard." -- Wizard People, Dear Reader: Chapter 23
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no worries NO STINGER NO WORRIES

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Flisch
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Apr 12 2016, 04:46 PM
Post #47
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- Niedfaru
- Apr 12 2016, 02:41 PM
That's a different question entirely. I was merely responding to the question of whether the ability to stop matters. I know it's a different question, but I was trying to get to the root of the discussion.
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We have a discord. If you want to join, simply message me, Icthyander or Sphenodon.
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LittleLazyLass
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Apr 12 2016, 05:32 PM
Post #48
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- Scrublord
- Apr 12 2016, 04:28 PM
So you're saying we shouldn't care about the environment? We should just let the Earth get trashed, because it's gotten trashed before? Don't put words in my mouth. I said there's not a difference (if it's on the same scale, which in the elephant case, it isn't; in the case of the Azolla event, it's much more proportional*), I never said that says anything on whether we should stop it. What I did imply was that our self-created and self-indulgent morals aren't on the same level as their effect.
*Although that's assuming we continue on our trends. As of now, we're not even close to the level of climate change that caused. Our domination of the planet isn't unique either; Lystosaurus beats out there.
I also find a bit of irony in this:- Me last time this came up
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Are you seriously suggesting dropping all conservation? That's stupid.
- Directed to me just now
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So you're saying we shouldn't care about the environment? We should just let the Earth get trashed, because it's gotten trashed before?
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totally not British, b-baka!
You like me (Unlike) I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess.
Me  Forum user Uncanny Gemstar drew what is supposed to be a me. Thanks! Spoiler: click to toggle As they walk in, they're greeted by a small, poorly kept pathway leading to a poorly constructed Japanese-style gate. Behind this, a small field made up of corn, rice, wheat, potatoes, among other plants is contrasted by large piles of books, as well as a few rather out of place looking laptops. Off in the corner, a small woman, with long, striped, and strikingly colorful socks, no shoes, unremarkable denim shorts, a large, fancy black coat, arm warmers, glasses, a tuque, and somewhat unkempt, mid-length blue-and-pink-streaked red hair, is rummaging through a trash bin, located behind a sign saying "employees only". She continues this for a while (walking behind a wall to change her outfit now and then), until one of her visitors coughs. Startled, she looks up, apologizes, and grabs a handful of textbooks and novels before daintily running off to join them. What, you want me to tell you what these mean? Predenterra The (Lost) Lost World The Standing World Read First Clarifications on my sex and genderSorry if I come off as rude, I don't put much thought into word choice sometimes. I'm also super prone to editing my posts, sometimes multiple times, in the minutes following posting. For the love of god, take my posts from my earlier days on the forum with a grain of salt. I was not particularly knowledgeable or mature back then. Some of them are so cringe-worthy I can't even bring myself to look at them. Words Maybe Great Words - Words To Spec By
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It would have to be something extremely alien, pushing the limits of our imagination. But those are always my favorite kinds of life. ~~The Words of The Xenologist
- Words To Live By
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Ignorance is never insulting if you're willing to learn, we're all ignorant about most things. ~~The Words of Lamna
- Words I Live By
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Yeah, and even if you don't agree with creationists on that concept, that doesn't mean they can't be decent people. I have friends who are creationist (possibly even young earth) that I get along with fine in general life. I don't think they're right of course, but that doesn't make them intellectual degenerates. ~~The Words of forbidden3
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Ass-breathing fish-lizards? Sounds like a punk rock band
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"Holy fucking shit a toilet paper roll! Our favorite thing!"
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Tyrannosaurus aquastronka
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Myo, if you don't stop reading the YouTube comments...
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Are you saying what I think you're saying?
Sheather bathes in cum?
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And last night I dreamed I was blowing up a Kindergarten with a grenade launcher for no particular reason...
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Oh, and of course more people get killed by selfies than by sharks. Of course.
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SHEEEEAAAAATTTTTTHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
- whachamacalit2
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The smell of rotting flesh really kills my appetite, surprising, but the visual appearance of corpses makes me hungry. Is that weird?
- Ebervalius
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I mean, let us say I'm a genderfluid blurflux demi-romantic woman who is sexually attracted to men, but only if they are Melanesian and have a voice like that of Nicholas Cage. Okay, so what?
- trex841
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When I first saw that picture, I thought you were dissecting a condom.
- Mr Mysterio
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All hail Robo-Stalin.
- Peashyjah
-
Seems like everything in this project is now dead.
- Stealth Rock
-
Seagulls are pretty much trees, right?
- Watcher
-
We all must finish chapters of our lives to go on to the next. Sometime this means leaving behind versions of ourselves that don't want to die.
- Yiqi15
-
For April fool's, we had to make an orgasm that resembled a human foot.
- Flisch
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im the black market
- CaledonianWarrior96
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He was a skater birb, she said tweet you later birb
- Most People at Some Point
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Quotes - Some dude called plucas1 from Youtube comments
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Funny, isn't it, that our world needs Clark Kent a lot more than Superman.
- Xenoblade Chronicles
-
Even though he is our creator, that does not afford him the right to take our lives on a whim. But that is the thinking of a homs. He is a god. Such morals cannot apply to gods. So you think we should just shut up and die?! If that is the fate decided by a god. You are mistaken if you think we will simply accept such a fate and wait to die. We'll never stop fighting. Not till the end. To Zanza, the outcome is the same. Thus your logic is flawed.
- Hades - Kid Icarus Uprising
-
When freaky aliens give you lemons, make freaky alien lemonade.
- Kid Icarus Uprising
-
But Souls are delicious. They're like bacon - they taste good on anything. But if you eat them, you completely remove them from existence! They can't move on or... or be reincarnated! Huh. I never really gave it much thought. Besides, what do you mean by reincarnation anyway? You know, being reborn as someone or something else. Which means different body, different memories, different experiences, yes? So isn't being reborn as "something else" the same as being "removed from existence"? I... I... eating souls isn't right! That depends on your definition of "right". All living things survive by eating other living things. So what? You're a god. You should be above all that! Gods are above living things, which doesn't necessarily mean we care about them.
- Some Dude on BBC Two
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You are being shagged... by a flightless parrot.
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Scrublord
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Apr 12 2016, 06:31 PM
Post #49
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I'm surprised at the amount of feedback this thread's gotten. Let's hope it stays civil--this could be a dangerous subject.
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My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One
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In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph
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Holben
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Apr 12 2016, 06:41 PM
Post #50
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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I think this forum is sensible enough to manage one topic about naive conservation ideologies. There's no point making comments about whether a thread will go bad; the staff will intervene if necessary.
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.
"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Scrublord
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Apr 12 2016, 07:23 PM
Post #51
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Which is it that you're calling naive? Naturalism, or post-naturalism? BTW, I've also been having a conversation with a family friend about this. It's been interesting, and I can reproduce our conversation if he lets me.
I also have a new question, dealing with the whole idea that it's impossible to revert an ecosystem back to its prehuman state. And that question is: is it really. More specifically, what is the largest terrestrial landmass that has ever had all invasive species completely exterminated?
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My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One
Deviantart Account: http://elsqiubbonator.deviantart.com
In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph
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LittleLazyLass
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Apr 12 2016, 08:15 PM
Post #52
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Which is it that you're calling naive?
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I think the first obvious conclusion is that neither extreme is a good thing.
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totally not British, b-baka!
You like me (Unlike) I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess.
Me  Forum user Uncanny Gemstar drew what is supposed to be a me. Thanks! Spoiler: click to toggle As they walk in, they're greeted by a small, poorly kept pathway leading to a poorly constructed Japanese-style gate. Behind this, a small field made up of corn, rice, wheat, potatoes, among other plants is contrasted by large piles of books, as well as a few rather out of place looking laptops. Off in the corner, a small woman, with long, striped, and strikingly colorful socks, no shoes, unremarkable denim shorts, a large, fancy black coat, arm warmers, glasses, a tuque, and somewhat unkempt, mid-length blue-and-pink-streaked red hair, is rummaging through a trash bin, located behind a sign saying "employees only". She continues this for a while (walking behind a wall to change her outfit now and then), until one of her visitors coughs. Startled, she looks up, apologizes, and grabs a handful of textbooks and novels before daintily running off to join them. What, you want me to tell you what these mean? Predenterra The (Lost) Lost World The Standing World Read First Clarifications on my sex and genderSorry if I come off as rude, I don't put much thought into word choice sometimes. I'm also super prone to editing my posts, sometimes multiple times, in the minutes following posting. For the love of god, take my posts from my earlier days on the forum with a grain of salt. I was not particularly knowledgeable or mature back then. Some of them are so cringe-worthy I can't even bring myself to look at them. Words Maybe Great Words - Words To Spec By
-
It would have to be something extremely alien, pushing the limits of our imagination. But those are always my favorite kinds of life. ~~The Words of The Xenologist
- Words To Live By
-
Ignorance is never insulting if you're willing to learn, we're all ignorant about most things. ~~The Words of Lamna
- Words I Live By
-
Yeah, and even if you don't agree with creationists on that concept, that doesn't mean they can't be decent people. I have friends who are creationist (possibly even young earth) that I get along with fine in general life. I don't think they're right of course, but that doesn't make them intellectual degenerates. ~~The Words of forbidden3
Member Quotes - jman123
-
Ass-breathing fish-lizards? Sounds like a punk rock band
- Sheather
-
"Holy fucking shit a toilet paper roll! Our favorite thing!"
- Urufumarukai
-
Tyrannosaurus aquastronka
- Kamineigh
-
Myo, if you don't stop reading the YouTube comments...
- Lamna
-
Are you saying what I think you're saying?
Sheather bathes in cum?
- Cephylus
-
And last night I dreamed I was blowing up a Kindergarten with a grenade launcher for no particular reason...
- revin
-
Oh, and of course more people get killed by selfies than by sharks. Of course.
- Parasky
-
SHEEEEAAAAATTTTTTHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
- whachamacalit2
-
The smell of rotting flesh really kills my appetite, surprising, but the visual appearance of corpses makes me hungry. Is that weird?
- Ebervalius
-
I mean, let us say I'm a genderfluid blurflux demi-romantic woman who is sexually attracted to men, but only if they are Melanesian and have a voice like that of Nicholas Cage. Okay, so what?
- trex841
-
When I first saw that picture, I thought you were dissecting a condom.
- Mr Mysterio
-
All hail Robo-Stalin.
- Peashyjah
-
Seems like everything in this project is now dead.
- Stealth Rock
-
Seagulls are pretty much trees, right?
- Watcher
-
We all must finish chapters of our lives to go on to the next. Sometime this means leaving behind versions of ourselves that don't want to die.
- Yiqi15
-
For April fool's, we had to make an orgasm that resembled a human foot.
- Flisch
-
im the black market
- CaledonianWarrior96
-
He was a skater birb, she said tweet you later birb
- Most People at Some Point
-
Quotes - Some dude called plucas1 from Youtube comments
-
Funny, isn't it, that our world needs Clark Kent a lot more than Superman.
- Xenoblade Chronicles
-
Even though he is our creator, that does not afford him the right to take our lives on a whim. But that is the thinking of a homs. He is a god. Such morals cannot apply to gods. So you think we should just shut up and die?! If that is the fate decided by a god. You are mistaken if you think we will simply accept such a fate and wait to die. We'll never stop fighting. Not till the end. To Zanza, the outcome is the same. Thus your logic is flawed.
- Hades - Kid Icarus Uprising
-
When freaky aliens give you lemons, make freaky alien lemonade.
- Kid Icarus Uprising
-
But Souls are delicious. They're like bacon - they taste good on anything. But if you eat them, you completely remove them from existence! They can't move on or... or be reincarnated! Huh. I never really gave it much thought. Besides, what do you mean by reincarnation anyway? You know, being reborn as someone or something else. Which means different body, different memories, different experiences, yes? So isn't being reborn as "something else" the same as being "removed from existence"? I... I... eating souls isn't right! That depends on your definition of "right". All living things survive by eating other living things. So what? You're a god. You should be above all that! Gods are above living things, which doesn't necessarily mean we care about them.
- Some Dude on BBC Two
-
You are being shagged... by a flightless parrot.
Stuff
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Flisch
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Apr 13 2016, 11:40 AM
Post #53
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- Scrublord
- Apr 12 2016, 04:28 PM
So you're saying we shouldn't care about the environment? We should just let the Earth get trashed, because it's gotten trashed before?
To flip your question around, considering we do not stop with what we're doing, how would it be any different from past extinction / climate change events in terms of outcome?
- Scrublord
- Apr 12 2016, 07:23 PM
I also have a new question, dealing with the whole idea that it's impossible to revert an ecosystem back to its prehuman state. And that question is: is it really.
It is insofar as we can only revert it to a state we assume to be the prehuman state.
Plus, you can't ask "how" before you got past the "why".
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We have a discord. If you want to join, simply message me, Icthyander or Sphenodon.
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Velociraptor
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Apr 13 2016, 01:56 PM
Post #54
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Well, why should we not try to reduce our negative impact on the global environment? You keep asking why we should, but you haven't provided any reason as to why we shouldn't.
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Unnamed No K-Pg project: coming whenever, maybe never. I got ideas tho.
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LittleLazyLass
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Apr 13 2016, 02:23 PM
Post #55
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Proud quilt in a bag
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- Velociraptor
- Apr 13 2016, 01:56 PM
Well, why should we not try to reduce our negative impact on the global environment? You keep asking why we should, but you haven't provided any reason as to why we shouldn't. But he has. Because it's not different from any other extinction in earth's history.
Now don't reply to this and say "So you think that means it's fine to watch it burn" or something, since I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it, I'm just saying he's explained himself (he went more in-depth in the "Thoughts on Cloning" thread from way back, although it's to old to use to judge current opinions).
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totally not British, b-baka!
You like me (Unlike) I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess.
Me  Forum user Uncanny Gemstar drew what is supposed to be a me. Thanks! Spoiler: click to toggle As they walk in, they're greeted by a small, poorly kept pathway leading to a poorly constructed Japanese-style gate. Behind this, a small field made up of corn, rice, wheat, potatoes, among other plants is contrasted by large piles of books, as well as a few rather out of place looking laptops. Off in the corner, a small woman, with long, striped, and strikingly colorful socks, no shoes, unremarkable denim shorts, a large, fancy black coat, arm warmers, glasses, a tuque, and somewhat unkempt, mid-length blue-and-pink-streaked red hair, is rummaging through a trash bin, located behind a sign saying "employees only". She continues this for a while (walking behind a wall to change her outfit now and then), until one of her visitors coughs. Startled, she looks up, apologizes, and grabs a handful of textbooks and novels before daintily running off to join them. What, you want me to tell you what these mean? Predenterra The (Lost) Lost World The Standing World Read First Clarifications on my sex and genderSorry if I come off as rude, I don't put much thought into word choice sometimes. I'm also super prone to editing my posts, sometimes multiple times, in the minutes following posting. For the love of god, take my posts from my earlier days on the forum with a grain of salt. I was not particularly knowledgeable or mature back then. Some of them are so cringe-worthy I can't even bring myself to look at them. Words Maybe Great Words - Words To Spec By
-
It would have to be something extremely alien, pushing the limits of our imagination. But those are always my favorite kinds of life. ~~The Words of The Xenologist
- Words To Live By
-
Ignorance is never insulting if you're willing to learn, we're all ignorant about most things. ~~The Words of Lamna
- Words I Live By
-
Yeah, and even if you don't agree with creationists on that concept, that doesn't mean they can't be decent people. I have friends who are creationist (possibly even young earth) that I get along with fine in general life. I don't think they're right of course, but that doesn't make them intellectual degenerates. ~~The Words of forbidden3
Member Quotes - jman123
-
Ass-breathing fish-lizards? Sounds like a punk rock band
- Sheather
-
"Holy fucking shit a toilet paper roll! Our favorite thing!"
- Urufumarukai
-
Tyrannosaurus aquastronka
- Kamineigh
-
Myo, if you don't stop reading the YouTube comments...
- Lamna
-
Are you saying what I think you're saying?
Sheather bathes in cum?
- Cephylus
-
And last night I dreamed I was blowing up a Kindergarten with a grenade launcher for no particular reason...
- revin
-
Oh, and of course more people get killed by selfies than by sharks. Of course.
- Parasky
-
SHEEEEAAAAATTTTTTHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
- whachamacalit2
-
The smell of rotting flesh really kills my appetite, surprising, but the visual appearance of corpses makes me hungry. Is that weird?
- Ebervalius
-
I mean, let us say I'm a genderfluid blurflux demi-romantic woman who is sexually attracted to men, but only if they are Melanesian and have a voice like that of Nicholas Cage. Okay, so what?
- trex841
-
When I first saw that picture, I thought you were dissecting a condom.
- Mr Mysterio
-
All hail Robo-Stalin.
- Peashyjah
-
Seems like everything in this project is now dead.
- Stealth Rock
-
Seagulls are pretty much trees, right?
- Watcher
-
We all must finish chapters of our lives to go on to the next. Sometime this means leaving behind versions of ourselves that don't want to die.
- Yiqi15
-
For April fool's, we had to make an orgasm that resembled a human foot.
- Flisch
-
im the black market
- CaledonianWarrior96
-
He was a skater birb, she said tweet you later birb
- Most People at Some Point
-
Quotes - Some dude called plucas1 from Youtube comments
-
Funny, isn't it, that our world needs Clark Kent a lot more than Superman.
- Xenoblade Chronicles
-
Even though he is our creator, that does not afford him the right to take our lives on a whim. But that is the thinking of a homs. He is a god. Such morals cannot apply to gods. So you think we should just shut up and die?! If that is the fate decided by a god. You are mistaken if you think we will simply accept such a fate and wait to die. We'll never stop fighting. Not till the end. To Zanza, the outcome is the same. Thus your logic is flawed.
- Hades - Kid Icarus Uprising
-
When freaky aliens give you lemons, make freaky alien lemonade.
- Kid Icarus Uprising
-
But Souls are delicious. They're like bacon - they taste good on anything. But if you eat them, you completely remove them from existence! They can't move on or... or be reincarnated! Huh. I never really gave it much thought. Besides, what do you mean by reincarnation anyway? You know, being reborn as someone or something else. Which means different body, different memories, different experiences, yes? So isn't being reborn as "something else" the same as being "removed from existence"? I... I... eating souls isn't right! That depends on your definition of "right". All living things survive by eating other living things. So what? You're a god. You should be above all that! Gods are above living things, which doesn't necessarily mean we care about them.
- Some Dude on BBC Two
-
You are being shagged... by a flightless parrot.
Stuff
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lamna
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Apr 13 2016, 02:35 PM
Post #56
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I also have a new question, dealing with the whole idea that it's impossible to revert an ecosystem back to its prehuman state. And that question is: is it really. More specifically, what is the largest terrestrial landmass that has ever had all invasive species completely exterminated?
Yes it is. Extinct species are gone. We may be able to bring back animals that went extinct in the very recent past within the decade, but for animals that have been gone longer, it's going to be a lot harder.
Impossible in some ways. Can you clone the non-instinctual behaviour of extinct animals?
As for the largest terrestrial landmass with all invasive species removed, I don't think there are any. Even Antarctica is home to alien plants, including the humble annual bluegrass.
How would you go about removing all the non-native flora and fauna? The uncountable microbes we've spread around the world? It's just not plausible using anything like modern technology. --- The earth is not a wilderness anymore. It's a vast garden. And that's ok. Gardens can be very nice, and home to lots of wildlife.
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Flisch
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Apr 13 2016, 02:47 PM
Post #57
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- Apr 13 2016, 01:56 PM
Well, why should we not try to reduce our negative impact on the global environment? You keep asking why we should, but you haven't provided any reason as to why we shouldn't. Compare
A: "We should save endangered species." B: "Why?" A: "Why not?"
to:
A: "You should give me all your money." B: "Why?" A: "Why not?"
You cannot demand action from someone without providing a reason.
So, let me ask again, why might we want to? (Note how I didn't say "should".)
It's kind of funny, because there actually is an answer to this question but everyone prefers to play the moral card.
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Niedfaru
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Apr 13 2016, 02:50 PM
Post #58
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Let's reverse the question then: Why is is helpful to argue about whether an anthropogenic mass extinction is any different than the rest?
The most salient point for me is that if humans keep destroying all the ecosystems they rely on, they're going to have to adapt to new ones until the point when they can't any more, and then they too go extinct. Therefore, if makes sense for humans to stop destroying ecosystems. And as long as our understanding of them is incomplete, we can't attempt to completely manage them either.
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Monster
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Apr 13 2016, 03:07 PM
Post #59
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The most salient point for me is that if humans keep destroying all the ecosystems they rely on, they're going to have to adapt to new ones until the point when they can't any more, and then they too go extinct.
Yes, this exactly. To continue as we are may be 'natural' but that doesn't mean desirable, from a purely selfish point of view. The reason it is different for us to destroy it, rather than Azolla or a plague of elephants or whatever, is that we have a huge capacity to reason and plan what we are doing and why. We do not need to burn and eat ourselves into oblivion. We are fully capable of taking numerous alternative courses of action. We can consciously opt to allow land to recover after a hunting/foraging season, we can make a reasoned decision not to cut all the trees down at once or kill every animal of a given species. Does it even matter whether the aftermath of an anthropogenic extinction would be different to a non-anthropogenic one? We're dead either way, but we have a choice not to cause our own demise.
As for reverting to the pre-human state, no, it is impossible. As lamna said, we're gardening now. Conservation is landscape-level gardening. What kind of garden do we want? That is what we need to decide now, not do we want to make a garden. Furthermore; all conservation activity is ultimately a humanitarian effort, regardless of how much intrinsic value you personally place on other species. To pretend otherwise is to invite failure. And not get any funding.
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Flisch
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Apr 13 2016, 04:20 PM
Post #60
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- Niedfaru
- Apr 13 2016, 02:50 PM
The most salient point for me is that if humans keep destroying all the ecosystems they rely on, they're going to have to adapt to new ones until the point when they can't any more, and then they too go extinct. Therefore, if makes sense for humans to stop destroying ecosystems. And as long as our understanding of them is incomplete, we can't attempt to completely manage them either. That's quite the hyperbole though. The main reason behind loss of biodiversity is transforming land into farmland and what does farmland do? Feed people. If anything, destroying the environment seems to help humanity survive.
Of course, it's all shades of gray (as always). Excessive and careless agriculture wastes freshwater resources, but a shortage of such could possibly be solved with technologies such as filtration systems. Then there's the problem of overfishing, but we are already making progress with aquacultures. Big problems arise when pollution, erosion and other things turn arable areas into wasteland, but saying that humanity is going extinct from that is, well, a hyperbole.
You do have somewhat of a point though. We can't just go and bulldoze everything over, but we also don't need to save every species in order to survive (or to keep our current levels of living standards). Europe has one of the most damaged ecosystems worldwide and had so for quite a while. You don't see us starving. To be fair, we are right now importing the bulk of our foodstuff from developing nations, but we didn't do so until very recently, history-wise. (Okay, the romans dabbled with outsourcing food production, but you get my point.)
So yeah, we can't just go and lay waste to everything that moves and grows, but you know what? We don't. Humanity isn't some sort of mustache-twirling saturday morning cartoon villain. We're not claiming land because we want to destroy the environment. We claim land in order to provide food, living space, or other things for the exponentially growing population. Sure, we could go extinct if we just mindlessly killed everything on the planet, but we would also go extinct if we all just decided to randomly jump off a cliff. The latter is only marginally less realistic than the former. There is a wide gap between trying to save the argentinian blue-cheeked moss-wattler of which there were only about a hundred individuals when humans arrived and not going out of our way to kill off all useful species.
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