| Speculative biology is simultaneously a science and form of art in which one speculates on the possibilities of life and evolution. What could the world look like if dinosaurs had never gone extinct? What could alien lifeforms look like? What kinds of plants and animals might exist in the far future? These questions and more are tackled by speculative biologists, and the Speculative Evolution welcomes all relevant ideas, inquiries, and world-building projects alike. With a member base comprising users from across the world, our community is the largest and longest-running place of gathering for speculative biologists on the web. While unregistered users are able to browse the forum on a basic level, registering an account provides additional forum access not visible to guests as well as the ability to join in discussions and contribute yourself! Registration is free and instantaneous. Join our community today! |
| Naturalism vs Post-naturalism | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Apr 11 2016, 11:13 AM (4,213 Views) | |
| Holben | Apr 15 2016, 06:17 PM Post #181 |
![]()
Rumbo a la Victoria
![]()
|
But we also know that it is a very silly depiction. Humans are not suffering predation from other animals (much), but there are still plenty of factors affecting who survives and reproduces- there are selection pressures, even if they are different from the ones in the past. There's nothing stopping, for example, sexual selection, behavioural selection, and frequency-dependent selections. Regarding how tough we are, athletes and outdoorsmen in the western world are not physically inferior to people who spend their lives in the natural world in other cultures. I'm not as good as a San man of the same age at knapping and hunting and tracking largely because I haven't been doing them since I could talk. EDIT: Oh yeah, and incredibly important too, parasites and microbes. Remember; we are not the dominant form of life on Earth, we are at the whim of mutations that occur in the microbial population that spans every environment across Earth. Edited by Holben, Apr 15 2016, 06:19 PM.
|
|
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
![]() |
|
| Monster | Apr 15 2016, 06:19 PM Post #182 |
|
Space Oddity
![]()
|
Selection pressure may not be as strong in many parts of the world, but it is still there. We still suffer from disease and injury, as a species; remember not everyone lives the same life as you. Many people in the world live with significantly less food,shelter, medical care and sanitation; don't tell me they aren't being subjected to selective pressures. I spent a while living rough in the woods a few years ago, in the good 'ole days. Starvation wasn't what put a stop to it. It was Lyme disease. And you know what can help control Lyme disease? Lawnmowers. |
|
Flashlights, nightmares, sudden explosions. 'active' {tumblr} {Veles} {10 Million Years of Rain] Commissions: Open. | |
![]() |
|
| Scrublord | Apr 15 2016, 06:19 PM Post #183 |
|
Father Pellegrini
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Seriously? It had to come to Godwin's Law over THIS? |
|
My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One Deviantart Account: http://elsqiubbonator.deviantart.com In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph | |
![]() |
|
| lamna | Apr 15 2016, 06:23 PM Post #184 |
![]() ![]()
|
Yeah seriously, what do the Nazis have to do with inferior genes and the idea that modern people have been corrupted and need to get back to their roots? |
|
Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
![]() |
|
| HangingThief | Apr 15 2016, 06:24 PM Post #185 |
![]()
ghoulish
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Yeah, it's poor word choice I suppose. But I think it's pretty clear what I'm talking about. I mean selection for genes that would allow us to remain independent of this technologically advanced society we've constructed that could crash and burn at any moment. Edited by HangingThief, Apr 15 2016, 07:08 PM.
|
|
Hey. | |
![]() |
|
| Holben | Apr 15 2016, 06:25 PM Post #186 |
![]()
Rumbo a la Victoria
![]()
|
Their ideology was messy as hell, and on some points Hitler was proud of how they didn't actually take a side (eg, regarding capitalism). They subscribed to the myth of progress and the idea of reviving the 'superior' way of life of the original German people... at the same time... while picking and choosing from their twisted version of history to decide what was traditional and what was not. |
|
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
![]() |
|
| Niedfaru | Apr 15 2016, 06:27 PM Post #187 |
|
.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
@HangingThief: And then the environment will select for new things. Look, thing is, I agree wit you, a collapse is likely within or shortly after my lifetime. But it's not like we can choose to go back to a previous lifestyle now. 7 billion cannot be supported by a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, and certainly not in thire current distribution. So, we have little choice but to see if we can't make this civilisation thing work and avoid the collapse. I'm not sure it's entirely possible, but we'd better give it a damn good go. Edited by Niedfaru, Apr 15 2016, 06:28 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| HangingThief | Apr 15 2016, 06:32 PM Post #188 |
![]()
ghoulish
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
We still experience selection for some of the more "practical" things on a much lower scale. For every one person who gets removed from the gene pool, a hundred with the same problem that caused them to be removed live on and reproduce because of our marvelous modern medicine, transportation etc. |
|
Hey. | |
![]() |
|
| whachamacallit2 | Apr 15 2016, 06:33 PM Post #189 |
![]()
Guy who yells at squirrels
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Hell, even in non-microbial ways natural selection still play a part in our population. For example, I'm certain that most of us are lactose tolerant. We all know that wasn't a trait in the earlier generations of hunter-gatherers, that developed much later, likely due to natural selection, instead of sexual. After all, I doubt many people find people who can drink milk sexy enough to cause population drift in that direction. Edited by whachamacallit2, Apr 15 2016, 06:34 PM.
|
|
Click for shameless self plug! Spoiler: click to toggle Get you one at http://whachamacallit1.deviantart.com/ Learn the life, history, and fate of the tidally locked planet Asteria at: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5725927/1 | |
![]() |
|
| Holben | Apr 15 2016, 06:41 PM Post #190 |
![]()
Rumbo a la Victoria
![]()
|
Oh my god, you can drink milk without feeling bloated and ill? Give me your number now ![]() @HangingThief, as well as anarcho-primitivism, there are a few other modes of thought that attempt to right the wrongs done by global capitalism, grand society, etc. Do you think we can say that there are no forms of society which permit both human freedom and complicated technology? It's hard to imagine alternatives to this system while inside it, but even the success (until the arms race destroyed it) of a planned economy in one particular country we all love to hate demonstrate that there are so many untried societal systems which might allow a different kind of society to this one. |
|
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
![]() |
|
| LittleLazyLass | Apr 15 2016, 06:41 PM Post #191 |
![]()
Proud quilt in a bag
![]()
|
Even though we are still evolving, natural selection plays a much smaller part than before. With our modern medicine and way of life, it isn't survival of the fittest. It's survival of the everyone; therefore the natural process of weeding out the inferior genes that defines natural selection is, although not absent, near enough so. |
totally not British, b-baka! You like me (Unlike)I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess. Me What, you want me to tell you what these mean? Read First Words Maybe | |
![]() |
|
| Scrublord | Apr 15 2016, 06:46 PM Post #192 |
|
Father Pellegrini
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
And don't forget the Darwin Awards--proof positive that natural selection is still going on! |
|
My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One Deviantart Account: http://elsqiubbonator.deviantart.com In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph | |
![]() |
|
| Tartarus | Apr 15 2016, 07:40 PM Post #193 |
|
Prime Specimen
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
On where I stand in this whole naturalism vs post-naturalism, I think the environment and other species is equally are equally as inherently valuable as humanity. But that view does not seem to be present in the poll options. On the whole hunter-gatherer vs farmer thing I think many on this thread are misunderstanding the whole issue. The point is not that hunter-gatherer societies are inherently better than post-agricultural societies and a way more ideal sort of society to live in. The point is that hunter-gatherer societies do have some benefits over post-agricultural societies, just as post-agricultural societies have some benefits over hunter-gatherer societies. I think the problem is that all too many people have the black-and-white view that society X must be either entirely better or entirely worse than society Y, not even once considering there could be pros and cons to both. I think it may also stem from the old misconception that "primitive" societies are a bad thing and that technological advancement only ever makes things better, with no negative effects whatsoever. This is a deeply flawed view and the reality of the matter is that technological advancement has both up sides (e.g. better medical science) and downsides (e.g. better ways of killing larger numbers of people). Furthermore, I should note that social change is at least as important, if not more so, than technological change, yet is all too often overlooked. I personally see no problem in admitting there exist positive aspects to old hunter-gatherer cultures. And while I do not think we should return to that lifestyle (not that we even could, even if we wanted to) I do think its not a bad idea to learn from the more positive aspects of these cultures. Maybe we could at some unknown point in the future have a society that combines the best of both worlds- the high science and technology of civilisation with egalitarian social systems and low environmental damage not too dissimilar to what we find in certain hunter-gatherer societies. |
![]() |
|
| HangingThief | Apr 15 2016, 07:50 PM Post #194 |
![]()
ghoulish
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
For the record, I'm not actually condoning an attempt to somehow revert back to the stone age. It ain't gonna happen, even I know that lol. Just like it's not feasible to bring the world back to its pre- human state.
Edited by HangingThief, Apr 15 2016, 07:50 PM.
|
|
Hey. | |
![]() |
|
| Flisch | Apr 15 2016, 09:10 PM Post #195 |
|
Superhuman
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No, that wasn't HangingThief's point at all. (and he brought it up in the first place) He quite literally said that farming made us all into "sickly husks", or shells or whatever word he used, and that we would be better off if we reverted to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, because apparently all of them were healthy and diseases and parasites did not exist. That is what everyone is arguing against. |
| We have a discord. If you want to join, simply message me, Icthyander or Sphenodon. | |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · General Discussion · Next Topic » |

















You like me 

7:29 PM Jul 10