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Naturalism vs Post-naturalism
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Topic Started: Apr 11 2016, 11:13 AM (4,214 Views)
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HangingThief
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Apr 15 2016, 04:07 PM
Post #166
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I'm just pissed off that there's so many people, so little space and because things turned out the way they are there's no longer any chance of living differently. And i'll bet that if you went back in time and brought back an ancient hunter- gatherer, educated them, and forced them to live in our 'awesomely civilized' society they'd go insane in a week. They'd never understand how anyone could live that way. The reason i don't go and live in the woods is because its just not an option. It would almost certainly be illegal one way or another, and i'm just not built for surviving in the wild. I wouldn't last a week. Just like all modern humans i've become accustomed to civilized life, mentally and genetically. For a modern human, running off and trying to live like the stone age is pretending to be something you're not.
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Hey.
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LittleLazyLass
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Apr 15 2016, 04:20 PM
Post #167
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And i'll bet that if you went back in time and brought back an ancient hunter- gatherer, educated them, and forced them to live in our 'awesomely civilized' society they'd go insane in a week. They'd never understand how anyone could live that way. But the same applies the other way. Drop someone from the modern day in their society, we'd probably go a little more than insane; we'd probably die.
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totally not British, b-baka!
You like me (Unlike) I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess.
Me  Forum user Uncanny Gemstar drew what is supposed to be a me. Thanks! Spoiler: click to toggle As they walk in, they're greeted by a small, poorly kept pathway leading to a poorly constructed Japanese-style gate. Behind this, a small field made up of corn, rice, wheat, potatoes, among other plants is contrasted by large piles of books, as well as a few rather out of place looking laptops. Off in the corner, a small woman, with long, striped, and strikingly colorful socks, no shoes, unremarkable denim shorts, a large, fancy black coat, arm warmers, glasses, a tuque, and somewhat unkempt, mid-length blue-and-pink-streaked red hair, is rummaging through a trash bin, located behind a sign saying "employees only". She continues this for a while (walking behind a wall to change her outfit now and then), until one of her visitors coughs. Startled, she looks up, apologizes, and grabs a handful of textbooks and novels before daintily running off to join them. What, you want me to tell you what these mean? Predenterra The (Lost) Lost World The Standing World Read First Clarifications on my sex and genderSorry if I come off as rude, I don't put much thought into word choice sometimes. I'm also super prone to editing my posts, sometimes multiple times, in the minutes following posting. For the love of god, take my posts from my earlier days on the forum with a grain of salt. I was not particularly knowledgeable or mature back then. Some of them are so cringe-worthy I can't even bring myself to look at them. Words Maybe Great Words - Words To Spec By
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It would have to be something extremely alien, pushing the limits of our imagination. But those are always my favorite kinds of life. ~~The Words of The Xenologist
- Words To Live By
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Ignorance is never insulting if you're willing to learn, we're all ignorant about most things. ~~The Words of Lamna
- Words I Live By
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Yeah, and even if you don't agree with creationists on that concept, that doesn't mean they can't be decent people. I have friends who are creationist (possibly even young earth) that I get along with fine in general life. I don't think they're right of course, but that doesn't make them intellectual degenerates. ~~The Words of forbidden3
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Oh, and of course more people get killed by selfies than by sharks. Of course.
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The smell of rotting flesh really kills my appetite, surprising, but the visual appearance of corpses makes me hungry. Is that weird?
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Funny, isn't it, that our world needs Clark Kent a lot more than Superman.
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Even though he is our creator, that does not afford him the right to take our lives on a whim. But that is the thinking of a homs. He is a god. Such morals cannot apply to gods. So you think we should just shut up and die?! If that is the fate decided by a god. You are mistaken if you think we will simply accept such a fate and wait to die. We'll never stop fighting. Not till the end. To Zanza, the outcome is the same. Thus your logic is flawed.
- Hades - Kid Icarus Uprising
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When freaky aliens give you lemons, make freaky alien lemonade.
- Kid Icarus Uprising
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But Souls are delicious. They're like bacon - they taste good on anything. But if you eat them, you completely remove them from existence! They can't move on or... or be reincarnated! Huh. I never really gave it much thought. Besides, what do you mean by reincarnation anyway? You know, being reborn as someone or something else. Which means different body, different memories, different experiences, yes? So isn't being reborn as "something else" the same as being "removed from existence"? I... I... eating souls isn't right! That depends on your definition of "right". All living things survive by eating other living things. So what? You're a god. You should be above all that! Gods are above living things, which doesn't necessarily mean we care about them.
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You are being shagged... by a flightless parrot.
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lamna
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Apr 15 2016, 04:42 PM
Post #168
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If it's not something you personally want, why are you moaning about it? It would be pretty good to be able to climb in the trees, see in the dark and survive on insects, but you don't see me moaning about primates becoming diurnal.
Also I'm pretty sure it's possible to do legally if you really want to. Find a state with large areas of wilderness and lifetime hunting licences. Buy one, a trailer or mobile home, and your ready to ease yourself back into the wonderful life free of stress or trouble.
One final point...being a hunter gatherer is just one way humans make a living. While the narrative is often presented as hunter gatherers becoming farmers, farmers sometimes become hunter gathers. For example, the plains people of America. They seemed able to adapt to living off the land pretty well despite being "ruined" by farming until they got their hands on horses.
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Living Fossils
Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural
34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur.
- T.Neo
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Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna? [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash]
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Flisch
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Apr 15 2016, 04:52 PM
Post #169
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- HangingThief
- Apr 14 2016, 08:49 PM
- Kamineigh
- Apr 14 2016, 08:28 PM
Look, if you truly believe that system is better, sell all of your belongings, including your clothes, and move to Ethiopia. We'll see which one of us dies in the middle of nowhere from starvation/exposure/thirst/dysentery.
Don't you get it? That's not an option anymore. Farming literally ruined the chances of anyone living happily and independently. Also, cave men definitely did not die of exposure and dysentery. Unlike us pale, sickly farmers that have bred for ages and ages with little to no natural selection, they were tough. They could survive and thrive like wild animals, which they were. We basically domesticated ourselves into the disgraceful, shriveled shells of humanity we are today.
So this is a funny argument, because you see, the hunter gatherers that survived, survived because there were healthy. Everyone who had genetic defects or other things simply perished. We are not in total more sickly than we used to be. We are more sickly on average but only if you count only living people into the average. If you'd count every member of a hunter gatherer society that died before reaching maturity the average would be the same between both groups.
So essentially, what you are proposing by going back to hunter-gatherer societies, is that we just leave all the "unfit" people to die. Because that will be the consequence of going back. We will NOT become healthier, we will just get rid of all the unhealthy people, thus raising the average again.
You could just as well cut out the middle man and propose that we should euthanize all people with inferior genes. That's actually easier and allows us to keep fun things like the internet and ice cream.
- Scrublord
- Apr 15 2016, 11:03 AM
You want an answer? Try this one on for size. Earlier, I compared the Earth in its present state to a garden--an artificial ecosystem, in other words--and humanity in its ability to transform the world around itself to a gardener. But a gardener does not merely stand by idly while his plants are afflicted by blight, or consumed by insects. He weeds, he sprays pesticides, he plants new plants to replace those that die. As the most intelligent species on the planet, capable of shaping its ecosystems to suit our fancy, we feel the need to preserve those species that seem interesting or special to us--not because it is our moral right, but because, just as a gardener would rather have flowers than weeds, we would rather have honeycreepers than mosquitoes.
See, this is an honest answer, rather than the "we have to because we are morally obliged" stuff. (To be honest, this is also the answer that I waited for all the time, but you kept tip-toeing my questions.)
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We have a discord. If you want to join, simply message me, Icthyander or Sphenodon.
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HangingThief
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Apr 15 2016, 05:00 PM
Post #170
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- lamna
- Apr 15 2016, 04:42 PM
If it's not something you personally want, why are you moaning about it? It would be pretty good to be able to climb in the trees, see in the dark and survive on insects, but you don't see me moaning about primates becoming diurnal.
When it comes to humans, the general consensus is that quality of life matters. It's highly subjective, but i believe that our quality of life isn't necessarily better than that of ancient hunter gatherers. Their world and ours both have pros and cons, and i think that ours has more cons even if we have become accustomed to them, just like they were accustomed to theirs. There is a difference between not wanting something and not really being able to have something.
Shouldn't the fact that farmers sometimes became hunter gatherers go to show that one lifestyle is not inherently superior to another?
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Hey.
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Kamidio
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Apr 15 2016, 05:18 PM
Post #171
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Well duh, ours has more cons! ComiCon, OtaCon, YoumaCon, Bronycon, MomoCon, et cetera.
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HangingThief
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Apr 15 2016, 05:23 PM
Post #172
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- Flisch
- Apr 15 2016, 04:52 PM
So essentially, what you are proposing by going back to hunter-gatherer societies, is that we just leave all the "unfit" people to die. Because that will be the consequence of going back. We will NOT become healthier, we will just get rid of all the unhealthy people, thus raising the average again.
You could just as well cut out the middle man and propose that we should euthanize all people with inferior genes. That's actually easier and allows us to keep fun things like the internet and ice cream.
You're forgetting that the unhealthy people have to breed to pass on their genes. Far more people are born unhealthy today. Also, I don't mean sick or deformed people. I mean people who have just bred and bred and bred with no quality control. AKA pretty much everyone alive today. We're not unhealthy, we're just fragile. We all have the inferior genes.
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Hey.
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LittleLazyLass
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Apr 15 2016, 05:37 PM
Post #173
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Proud quilt in a bag
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So? Having such a negative outlook on life isn't making it any better. It's not changing anything. So why not just appreciate it?
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totally not British, b-baka!
You like me (Unlike) I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess.
Me  Forum user Uncanny Gemstar drew what is supposed to be a me. Thanks! Spoiler: click to toggle As they walk in, they're greeted by a small, poorly kept pathway leading to a poorly constructed Japanese-style gate. Behind this, a small field made up of corn, rice, wheat, potatoes, among other plants is contrasted by large piles of books, as well as a few rather out of place looking laptops. Off in the corner, a small woman, with long, striped, and strikingly colorful socks, no shoes, unremarkable denim shorts, a large, fancy black coat, arm warmers, glasses, a tuque, and somewhat unkempt, mid-length blue-and-pink-streaked red hair, is rummaging through a trash bin, located behind a sign saying "employees only". She continues this for a while (walking behind a wall to change her outfit now and then), until one of her visitors coughs. Startled, she looks up, apologizes, and grabs a handful of textbooks and novels before daintily running off to join them. What, you want me to tell you what these mean? Predenterra The (Lost) Lost World The Standing World Read First Clarifications on my sex and genderSorry if I come off as rude, I don't put much thought into word choice sometimes. I'm also super prone to editing my posts, sometimes multiple times, in the minutes following posting. For the love of god, take my posts from my earlier days on the forum with a grain of salt. I was not particularly knowledgeable or mature back then. Some of them are so cringe-worthy I can't even bring myself to look at them. Words Maybe Great Words - Words To Spec By
-
It would have to be something extremely alien, pushing the limits of our imagination. But those are always my favorite kinds of life. ~~The Words of The Xenologist
- Words To Live By
-
Ignorance is never insulting if you're willing to learn, we're all ignorant about most things. ~~The Words of Lamna
- Words I Live By
-
Yeah, and even if you don't agree with creationists on that concept, that doesn't mean they can't be decent people. I have friends who are creationist (possibly even young earth) that I get along with fine in general life. I don't think they're right of course, but that doesn't make them intellectual degenerates. ~~The Words of forbidden3
Member Quotes - jman123
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Ass-breathing fish-lizards? Sounds like a punk rock band
- Sheather
-
"Holy fucking shit a toilet paper roll! Our favorite thing!"
- Urufumarukai
-
Tyrannosaurus aquastronka
- Kamineigh
-
Myo, if you don't stop reading the YouTube comments...
- Lamna
-
Are you saying what I think you're saying?
Sheather bathes in cum?
- Cephylus
-
And last night I dreamed I was blowing up a Kindergarten with a grenade launcher for no particular reason...
- revin
-
Oh, and of course more people get killed by selfies than by sharks. Of course.
- Parasky
-
SHEEEEAAAAATTTTTTHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
- whachamacalit2
-
The smell of rotting flesh really kills my appetite, surprising, but the visual appearance of corpses makes me hungry. Is that weird?
- Ebervalius
-
I mean, let us say I'm a genderfluid blurflux demi-romantic woman who is sexually attracted to men, but only if they are Melanesian and have a voice like that of Nicholas Cage. Okay, so what?
- trex841
-
When I first saw that picture, I thought you were dissecting a condom.
- Mr Mysterio
-
All hail Robo-Stalin.
- Peashyjah
-
Seems like everything in this project is now dead.
- Stealth Rock
-
Seagulls are pretty much trees, right?
- Watcher
-
We all must finish chapters of our lives to go on to the next. Sometime this means leaving behind versions of ourselves that don't want to die.
- Yiqi15
-
For April fool's, we had to make an orgasm that resembled a human foot.
- Flisch
-
im the black market
- CaledonianWarrior96
-
He was a skater birb, she said tweet you later birb
- Most People at Some Point
-
Quotes - Some dude called plucas1 from Youtube comments
-
Funny, isn't it, that our world needs Clark Kent a lot more than Superman.
- Xenoblade Chronicles
-
Even though he is our creator, that does not afford him the right to take our lives on a whim. But that is the thinking of a homs. He is a god. Such morals cannot apply to gods. So you think we should just shut up and die?! If that is the fate decided by a god. You are mistaken if you think we will simply accept such a fate and wait to die. We'll never stop fighting. Not till the end. To Zanza, the outcome is the same. Thus your logic is flawed.
- Hades - Kid Icarus Uprising
-
When freaky aliens give you lemons, make freaky alien lemonade.
- Kid Icarus Uprising
-
But Souls are delicious. They're like bacon - they taste good on anything. But if you eat them, you completely remove them from existence! They can't move on or... or be reincarnated! Huh. I never really gave it much thought. Besides, what do you mean by reincarnation anyway? You know, being reborn as someone or something else. Which means different body, different memories, different experiences, yes? So isn't being reborn as "something else" the same as being "removed from existence"? I... I... eating souls isn't right! That depends on your definition of "right". All living things survive by eating other living things. So what? You're a god. You should be above all that! Gods are above living things, which doesn't necessarily mean we care about them.
- Some Dude on BBC Two
-
You are being shagged... by a flightless parrot.
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Dragon
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Apr 15 2016, 05:48 PM
Post #174
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/r/GamingCirclejerk is the best subreddit, don't @ me
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And what exactly do you mean by "inferior" genes? That's incredibly vague, and the superiority/inferiority of genes is very situational. Take sickle cell anemia. If you're homozygous for the gene that causes it, you suffer from elongated red blood cells that can't carry oxygen as efficiently as regular blood cells. However, if you're heterozygous for it, you become quite resistant to malaria. Saying all 7 billion people have inferior genes because of how shitty modern society is is completely ridiculous.
Also, why do you have wake up sheeple under your avatar?
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"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life," John 3:16
A neat pixel animation of a future cowboy
- trex841
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Hey, their right to get freaky ends when it goes up my nose.
I think this describes what dinosaurs are like now
Click for something good. Click this too.
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Paleo_Specs
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Apr 15 2016, 05:51 PM
Post #175
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- Kamineigh
- Apr 15 2016, 05:18 PM
Well duh, ours has more cons! ComiCon, OtaCon, YoumaCon, Bronycon, MomoCon, et cetera. MineCon.
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- Quote:
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a species of canid that's always male because the females are in Hell, that commits blood rituals on unborn souls, and assimilates others into its flesh belongs in a competition meant to foster a sensible and mature discussion of evolution. Nanotyrannus, COM 2016
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Holben
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Apr 15 2016, 05:53 PM
Post #176
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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HangingThief, I think you have some good ideas (a lot of researchers are currently overturning our old pop culture ideas about hunter-gatherer life, from the original affluent society onwards [and I know that has its issues but it is a useful work and we shouldn't counterjerk the other way]), but I think you need to consider more deeply how you got to them. Right now your explanations are not very persuasive, and sometimes you are being roped into really bad arguments, like this nonsense about inferior genes. You also chose a very bad forum to fight this battle on
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.
"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Kamidio
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Apr 15 2016, 06:01 PM
Post #177
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The Game Master of the SSU:NC
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- Dragon
- Apr 15 2016, 05:48 PM
And what exactly do you mean by "inferior" genes?
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SSU:NC - Finding a new home.
Quotes - Steve Irwin
-
I have no fear of losing my life - if I have to save a koala or a crocodile or a kangaroo or a snake, mate, I will save it.
- Satoru Iwata - Heart of a Gamer
-
Even if we come from different sides of the world, speak different languages, even if we eat too many chips or rice balls, even if we wave different tastes in games, every one of us here today is identical in the most important way: each one of us was the heart of a gamer.
- The Writing on the Wall
-
You should not have come here. This is not a place of honor. No great deed is commemorated here. Nothing of value is here. What is here is dangerous and repulsive.
- Parasky | 2015
-
You can't be 100% certain Barack Obama is currently the US president, or that the nation of Canada even exists.
- Dan Avidan
-
See, what I like to do now as an adult is take all that anger and frustration and push it down deep inside of me, until it becomes a seething white core of pure hate.
- Dan Avidan
-
Follow your stupid fuckin' dreams.
WAA
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HangingThief
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Apr 15 2016, 06:03 PM
Post #178
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- Dragon
- Apr 15 2016, 05:48 PM
And what exactly do you mean by "inferior" genes? That's incredibly vague, and the superiority/inferiority of genes is very situational. Take sickle cell anemia. If you're homozygous for the gene that causes it, you suffer from elongated red blood cells that can't carry oxygen as efficiently as regular blood cells. However, if you're heterozygous for it, you become quite resistant to malaria. Saying all 7 billion people have inferior genes because of how shitty modern society is is completely ridiculous.
Also, why do you have wake up sheeple under your avatar?
I mean less able to survive in the wild. Generation after generation of no natural selection has dulled our resistance to disease, injury etc. It may not matter anymore, but it's not as though lacking the ability to survive without modern medicine and technology is advantageous in any situation I know of.
The "wake up sheeple" is a joke.
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Hey.
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HangingThief
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Apr 15 2016, 06:09 PM
Post #179
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- Holben
- Apr 15 2016, 05:53 PM
HangingThief, I think you have some good ideas (a lot of researchers are currently overturning our old pop culture ideas about hunter-gatherer life, from the original affluent society onwards [and I know that has its issues but it is a useful work and we shouldn't counterjerk the other way]), but I think you need to consider more deeply how you got to them. Right now your explanations are not very persuasive, and sometimes you are being roped into really bad arguments, like this nonsense about inferior genes. You also chose a very bad forum to fight this battle on  I wasn't the one who used the term "inferior genes" first. Any time someone hears something like that, they think hitler but its just a fact that if there's no selection, things break down. Use it or lose it. Don't you guys know the trope of the alien/ future human with the giant brain and tiny, weak body?
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Hey.
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Niedfaru
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Apr 15 2016, 06:15 PM
Post #180
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There's no such thing as no selection. That's literally impossible. Even if you could eradicate all the external influences on a species (which you can't, all you can do is replace them with new ones), you still have sexual selection. You might not like where that leads the species, but that's as much an aesthetic judgement as anything else.
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