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| Dawn of Justice (Spoilers) | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 25 2016, 08:22 PM (1,150 Views) | |
| Troy Troodon | Mar 25 2016, 08:22 PM Post #1 |
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Prime Specimen
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So, just got back from watching, "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.. more like, Yawn of Justice if you ask me... or Dawn of Purgatory, or rather "Void of Justice!" Yeah as you can tell I'm not very happy about this movie... which is rather appropriate since this is one of the most joyless superhero stories I've seen, even more so than it's predecessor, "Man of Steel". So... here's the story... or wait, it's not there, I can't really find it, namely because THERE IS NO COHERENT STORY! Seriously, what story is this trying to tell, or for that matter, what genre is it?! Sci-Fi? Horror? Thriller? Well for one it certainly isn't an, Action-Adventure Fantasy! So, basically this story takes place 18 months after the events of MoS, and in prologue, apparently Bruce Wayne works in Metropolis... since when?! And a bunch of people he knew died since then... it would be rather tear jerking if we knew who these people were. And in epilogue, Lois Lane and who I assume to be Jimmy Olsen were held captive by terrorists in Africa... and Jimmy (If he is) was killed... and a whole other people were killed... oh and then Superman came, he rescued Lois then flew the terrorist leader through wall, after wall, after wall... and he says he didn't kill anyone?! I find that rather hard to believe! Meanwhile, back in Gotham (Cue Bat-Theme) Batman's been branding criminals, and EVERYTHING IS FLASHY! Seriously, I felt like I was getting a seizure from that scene! So anyway, Lex Luthor invites Bruce Wayne to his party, where both our leads meet, and Bruce goes downloading data from LexCorp files, which were taken by Diana Prince... oh yeah she's in the movie. Anyway, in his spare time, Superman does go saving people (Which I like) but what ruins it is all this pretentious commentary by actual talkshow hosts and speculative science theorists, including Neil Degrasse Tyson, and really it's just pandering to Clark as it is to me! (I feel ya, man) Some time later, Lex hires one of Bruce's employees to be taken to the senate to face Superman... and he explodes, and everyone dies! (DCCU in a nutshell much?) Afterwards there's more Superman mopping, and Batsy's having nightmare fuel (Or rather the audience is) with a corrupted Superman ruling the earth in servitude to Apokolips I presume?... Oh and Flash stops by to say hello... in the most IN YOUR FACE WAY POSSIBLE! He came out of a wormhole to tell Bruce about Lois, then disappears... do they know each other?! So after that Bats is hightailing LexCorp lackeys-- and is just DESTROYING ALL OF THEM! Yeah, Batman KILLS in this movie! What the hell, Zack Snyder?! Superman stops him, just so Bats can bring up that quote of his in the trailers. Anyway, Diana returns the thumb drive to Bruce, and it turns out she's been in this world sometime before both our leads have... which beckons how or why nobody else knew about the awesome that is WW, but whatever. (I honestly don't remember a whole lot else about the film so I'm just gonna talk about the stuff I do remember) Luthor acquires the Kryptonian ship, and implants Zod's corpse into some chamber I don't know. Anyway, he tracks down Martha Kent and uses her to bribe Superman into killing Batman (Why?!) And so the two fight, Supes tries to be reasonable while Bats is being ego-mesenteric and is just lunging for his throat!! Seriously dude, calm the fridge down!! Anyway, Lois conveniently follows them and informs Batman that he's only trying to save his mom, Martha... GET IT! Because Martha was his mom's name!! So anyway, Batman tracks down Martha, and I swear he does kill people and not just knock them out! So after that "Brilliant" plan failed, Lex awakens Doomsday! Superman flies Doomsday up to the direction of a government warhead. I'd say they're trying to pay homage to the Dark Knight Returns or Death of Superman, but honestly I don't see the connection. Anyway (Get ready for this)... Wonder Woman shows up! And it turns out, records of Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg were always stocked in the LexCorp database... huh?! So, yeah Superman flies back down to help, and we get out money shot, and it's an all out battle royal against DoomZod! Incidentally (I say loosely) the only weapon that could kill Doomz would of course be the kryptonian spear! Superman sacrifices himself to slay the monster, but not without getting himself killed with a bone projection though the chest. So yeah, more mopping depressing time. Luthor goes to Jail, Bats threatens lex about something (I couldn't really make out what either were saying) and Luthor yells out "He Knows! He's Coming!" Which I guess is supposed to be hinting Darkseid but... Oh forget it. Anyway, Clark Kent lies six feet under, and now Bruce and Diana go out looking for "The Others" Wow! Just Wow, I never thought this would be worse than Man of Steel... shoot it's even worse than Fant4stic!! This story... so joyless... what is the point of this thing! I'm sorry, but I just don't get this movie, is it trying to kill DC?! Is DC trying to piss everyone off so it can die?! Actually I wouldn't be surprised since death is everything that is, "Dawn of Justice" which really makes no sense as a title! There is no arc to the characters, and there's not coherent synopsis in all this! And the characters are about as dimensional as the paper at the Daily Planet, only less informative than the print itself! And characters like Jimmy Olsen, and even Mercy Graves are unceremoniously killed off! And okay, where's the real Lex Luthor, seriously, I don't know what character Jessie Eisenberg is playing, but he's not Lex Luthor, his so forced and corny I have a hard time believing he's putting a decant act. Even Gene Hackman was closer to the actual character than this hipster! If he were the Toyman, or even the Riddler sure I'd buy it, but even then his performance isn't even enjoyable, he feels more like a strawman of a comic book villain. .... And then there's Batman... Batman SHOULDN'T kill! Superman shouldn't kill, and Batman shouldn't kill... Superheroes in general... just should not kill! And I know some of you are gonna bring up example in the comment section to counter argue, but when I say it's "In General" or if it's in my opinion, you should know what I mean! Jeez, it's not even a, "So bad it's good" kind of movie, the imagery and criteria of this story is specifically intended to be both shocking and offensive to the audience... and it is, but not in a good way! Zack Snyder, really does not get the characters! Nor do his script writers, especially David S. Goyer! This is not a superhero movie, it feels more like a sick joke, a poorly written satire or parody at best... or worst depending on how you view it. And because of this I absolutely refuse to watch any more of these movies later, though if I do, chances are I'll be more and more displeased with it. At least when Alan Moore, and even Frank Miller did this with superheroes it was commentary on the media! And you know there's something wrong when Jessica Jones, a much... much darker superhero story is more elevating than Superman, Batman or Wonder Woman!!! *Sigh* I have been a fan of DC since I was 5 years old, and to see these icons portrayed in such a callous and abysmal point of direction is not only offensive to me, but to the mythology of Superheros in general, from either DC or Marvel, or even an independent publication. And in the end, what has this project accomplished?! What more can be said with DC when all is said and done?! Well if anyone knows the answer to that, be sure to let me know. In the mean time I'm just gonna read some good o'l DC comics, and watch some episodes of the DC animated shows. |
| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Kamidio | Mar 25 2016, 08:34 PM Post #2 |
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The Game Master of the SSU:NC
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Frank Miller had nothing to say on the media. Dark Knight Returns was garbage. I knew it'd be garbage long before they even showed the trailers - the minute they revealed the Batsuit, I knew it'd be a suckfest. Honestly, I think Christopher Nolan is to blame for all of this. |
SSU:NC - Finding a new home. Quotes WAA
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| Carlos | Mar 25 2016, 09:17 PM Post #3 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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The only thing redeemable is maybe the fact that good ratings = Wonder Woman movie, but I'm not sure if it is worth it. |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Canis Lupis | Mar 26 2016, 04:43 AM Post #4 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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I am really starting to feel like I and my friends are the only ones who actually liked this movie. Was it perfect? No. Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor was awful. I get what they were trying to go for (more of a millennial supergenius CEO than a 1980s businessman/supergenius), and it could have worked. But not when Eisenberg tried to make his character Joker Luthor. It was quite bad, and unforgivable. That said, there were a lot of good moments. Ben Affleck did an awesome job as Bruce Wayne. As Batman, his combat skills weren't as impressive as Christian Bale's or Michael Keaton's, but he did passable. The thing he did that impressed me the most was that he actually did detective work. Yeah, strange isn't it? Batman, who is typically billed as the "world's greatest detective" in the comics, has rarely done any kind of detective work in the movies. Sure, Christian Bale Batman had the thing with piecing together fingerprints from a shattered bullet, and he did a healthy amount of interrogation, but there was hardly any time in that trilogy where he just sat in the Batcave in front of his computer terminal and figured stuff out. Ben Affleck Batman did that, and I loved it. Wonder Woman was incredibly badass, and really got me excited for her solo movie. Sure, she does kind of appear out of nowhere in the final fight, but I'm okay with that to an extent. Superman was definitely much more like Superman in this than he was in "Man of Steel." Granted, the Superman portrayals in "Superman Returns" and the original "Superman" movies were much closer to the comics than this iteration. I get what Zack Snyder was trying to go for (an Injustice-era Superman), and I like that side of Superman. But even I have to admit that, 95 percent of the time, he is less about the moral struggle between fitting in as a human and being practically a god and more about uphold "truth, justice, and the American way." While that moral struggle is essential to Superman's character, he has never been dark and moody like that. The moral struggle has always been tangential to Superman, while his desire for goodness has always been his guide. I think Zack Snyder tends to forget this. I hope that Superman's brush with death will be the impetus for resolving his moral struggle in later films. As for story coherence, which I have seen as a frequent criticism, the story was very straightforward. The only outlier here is that flashsidewaysforward dream sequence. That's essentially a direct pull from the "Injustice" storyline. Superman is not working for Apokolips, as OP put it; rather, he is working for himself. Notice the S-symbol on the soldiers' shoulders, meant to evoke a swastika. I honestly feel like this scene, while I enjoyed it, could have been (heck, should have been) left out and saved for the extended edition (which Snyder has said he is releasing). One, it would have cut down on run time. Two, it would have reduced complaints about a jumpy story. Three, the whole point of the scene and of the Kid Flash message (I think it was Kid Flash, but I'm not entirely sure. He has been known in the comics to deliver warnings to the present (his past) about the future (his present), so it wouldn't be out of character) was to establish that Batman had to do something about Superman before he became tyrannical. This could have been achieved in a much more coherent way, perhaps by hammering on the desert terrorism subplot. As for criticisms of Batman killing, you have to remember that this is a Batman who has been at the job for 20+ years. Keaton and Bale Batman (not even going to mention Val Kilmer or George Clooney, who were both quite bad, or Adam West, who was awesome at portraying a completely different Batman) were only active for a few years (technically, it was 10 years between when Bale took up the mantle in "Batman Begins" and when he "sacrificed himself" in "Dark Knight Rises," but there was an 8 year stretch where he was retired). Take a look at "The Dark Knight Returns," which this movie obviously drew heavy influence from. For better or for worse, Batman is much more willing to kill in that comic, realizing that his efforts at rehabilitation have not worked and have only caused more misery. Granted, in that comic, the willingness to kill is mostly leveled at the Joker and not necessarily at ordinary civilians (though he is very willing to do damage to cops that is very likely fatal, if unintentionally so). But regardless, if you're trying to make a film around a Batman who has been going at this for a long time (as Snyder was), it makes sense to have your Batman play a little more loosely with his "no kill" rule. As long as you don't have him blatantly sniping people in the head. Also, if you don't think superheroes should kill, OP, you must really hate Marvel comics/films. Was it a perfect film? Heck no. I'd still say that the weakest MCU film (Iron Man 2) is better than it. But is BvS an improvement on MoS? Absolutely. Is it as bad as everyone is saying? Heck no. I'd give it a 7 out of 10, and admittedly a lot of that has to do with the groundwork this laid for the future of the DC cinematic universe. Again, not perfect, and I think DC would do well to distance themselves from Zack Snyder in the future, but not horrible. Certainly nowhere near Fant4stic levels. |
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| Troy Troodon | Mar 26 2016, 12:39 PM Post #5 |
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Prime Specimen
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Yeah, alright I admit, I had a problem with the Marvel movies, when their heroes killed to, but I understand where they were coming from, just a tiny bit more than with the context of this kind of movie. All in all I can forgive Marvel's films since despite their problems they were still much better handled stories, the stories were established, the characters were more complex, and the context of heroes having to resort to lethal measures is more excusable. And to be honest, even though I'm against heroes killing villains, I don't mind if Superman or Batman kills so long as there are more extreme circumstances... but there are no extreme circumstances here! Batman is outright slaughtering people and even causes hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars of collateral damage. |
| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Archeoraptor | Mar 26 2016, 01:28 PM Post #6 |
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"A living paradox"
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"Kid Flash message" he was red hood and since the prediction didn´t happen he would become the joker from suicide squad most of my friends liked it and some even said it was at deadpool´s levels, In my opinion it wasn´t a bad film but not that good Edited by Archeoraptor, Mar 26 2016, 01:47 PM.
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Astarte an alt eocene world,now on long hiatus but you never know Fanauraa; The rebirth of Aotearoa future evo set in new zealand after a mass extinction coming soon......a world that was seeded with earth´s weridest and who knows what is coming next........... " I have to know what the world will be looking throw a future beyond us I have to know what could have been if fate acted in another way I have to know what lies on the unknown universe I have to know that the laws of thee universe can be broken throw The Spec I gain strength to the inner peace the is not good of evil only nature and change,the evolution of all livings beings" " Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| Carlos | Mar 26 2016, 02:59 PM Post #7 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Also it's extremely faulty logic. "Oh noes, the guys at Marvel kill, we must let a movie about Cinderella have her as a ruthless murderer!" |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Ànraich | Mar 26 2016, 03:27 PM Post #8 |
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi
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There's only one good DC superhero that deserves a movie... Spoiler: click to toggle
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We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar. "The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming Tree That Owns Itself
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| Carlos | Mar 26 2016, 04:07 PM Post #9 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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No |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| TAXESbutNano | Mar 26 2016, 04:15 PM Post #10 |
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I'm going back to basics.
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oh my god tell us more parasky |
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| Kamidio | Mar 26 2016, 04:22 PM Post #11 |
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The Game Master of the SSU:NC
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Honestly, I wish we lived in a universe where Nolan never made 'dark and gritty' the standard for superhero movies. Now I'm gonna need to wait another 35 years for the next Superman film reboot. Here's hoping it'll get it right. |
SSU:NC - Finding a new home. Quotes WAA
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| Carlos | Mar 26 2016, 04:26 PM Post #12 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Well it's not the standard anymore. Only DC sticks to that tradition. |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Troy Troodon | Mar 26 2016, 04:45 PM Post #13 |
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Prime Specimen
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Well to be fair, Dark and Gritty is appropriate for Batman. |
| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Kamidio | Mar 26 2016, 05:23 PM Post #14 |
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The Game Master of the SSU:NC
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I beg to differ. Dark? Yes. Gritty? No. The man has adopted like seven kids at this point. He's almost as big of a dork as Superman. |
SSU:NC - Finding a new home. Quotes WAA
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| Ànraich | Mar 27 2016, 12:59 AM Post #15 |
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi
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Well DC acquired rights to Space Ghost in 2005 and created a six issue series of comics based on him. They never took off beyond that as far as I know, but it's a compelling story. A man of justice who is betrayed by his comrades and abandoned on a dead world inhabited only by the scientist who created the weapons and technology that ultimately destroyed it. He uses this technology to seek vengeance on those who wronged him, only to learn that vengeance is no substitute for justice. Also they re-imagined Zorak and made him much more badass. Originally he was a high ranking leader in a militaristic society of arthropoid alien Zorathians, but now he is the personality created by the swarm intelligence of the Zorathian species. There is no individual Zorak. All Zorathians are a part of Zorak. Kill the one he uses as an avatar and he merely inhabits another. I'm disappointed he never got more comics. I would love to see Brak and Moltar re-imagined as well. Moltar in particular is already such an interesting character. Did you know he's not actually a guy in a suit? He's a semi-gelatinous silicon-based lifeform that uses the suit as a way to protect himself from hostile environments and interact with the world around him. Also another interesting fact: his name isn't actually a play on "molten," as you would expect from a "lava creature." Moltar is named after the surname of the family that lived next door to the original series' animator. DC still owns the rights to Space Ghost. He had a guest appearance in the animated series Batman: The Brave and the Bold and once teamed up with Batman in the Batman Beyond comic. He is also the reason superhero cartoons gained popularity in the 60's. Without Space Ghost there would be no Justice League Unlimited. |
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We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar. "The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming Tree That Owns Itself
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