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People seem to be misunderstanding niches.
Topic Started: Jan 10 2016, 11:24 PM (3,938 Views)
Finncredibad
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Edgy and Cool
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Revin, not meaning to get off topic but when are you going to come out with more videos? I do understand that you have a life and all but, I don't know I just enjoy the two videos you have on your channel.
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LittleLazyLass
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He's not particularly active here nowadays, so it might be awhile.
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I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess.
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revin
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I'll have plenty of time this summer to get back on the forum and make videos. I've been particularly busy during my absence, but this summer is an extra week and a half since I'm going to a high school with a different start date, and the only things I have planned are a trip to Yosemite and a jazz camp.
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LittleLazyLass
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Bit of a weird place to post that, but OK.
totally not British, b-baka!
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I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess.
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colddigger
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Not particularly, it was a response to a question on that topic.
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Xenotaris
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Yeah I've see this a lot on many speculative evolution art, where someone has a wolf or a cat evolving into a furry version of a Dromaeosaurid
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kusanagi
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Xenotaris
Feb 21 2017, 08:28 AM
Yeah I've see this a lot on many speculative evolution art, where someone has a wolf or a cat evolving into a furry version of a Dromaeosaurid
Bipedal walking mammals exist in sthenurines, in part in leptictids and dipodids, in pangolins and giant armadillos, and at least twice in primates (hominins and Parabolichopithecus). Sthenurines evolved from a hopping ancestor with strong hindlimbs as did jerboas but the ancestors of leptictids are unknown. In morphological trees homoplasies draw leptictids to lagomorphs and macroscelideans supporting similarities of posture and gait. The difference is leptictids had switched to bipedal walking as well as leaping as in jerboas which also practice a dual gait unlike ie. Macropus.

In giant armadillos and pangolins a bipedal, walking gait is associated with heavy forelimbs and large digging claws. It is worth noting giant sloth tracks support bipedalism and despite their weight megatheres have been interpreted as bipedal. Another group of mammals, the anoplotheres, were browsers with bipedal tendencies but not claws: sthenurines were also browsers in their case with hooked, gorilla-like digits.

Lastly there are the bipedal catarrhines. All living primates even the most generalised, the microcebids, are primitively arboreal leapers to some degree. In the case of hominins the nearby gorilla and chimp have adaptations for browsing drawing parallels with ground sloths, and their knuckle walking has been compared to pangolins and xenarthrans.However Ardipithecus was not really very bipedal and shows no signs of knuckle walking ancestry. Its just curious that hominoids, pangolins and xenarthrans all include bipeds as well as knuckle walkers with powerful forelimbs. Orthogrady in primates is associated with vertical clinging but bipedal rodents and macropods also tend to orthograde posture.

In mammals then non-leaping bipedalism evolved in 1) leaping mammals 2) browsing mammals and 3) insectivores with powerful forelimbs. In 2 and 3 knuckle walking may be an alternative solution but bipedal steps are useful for bipedal/tripodal browsers and also for insect-hunting jerboas and leptictids with short forelimbs.

You might add dinosaurs to this list: lagerpetonids and Scleromochlus show signs of bounding, and plateosaurs and heterodontosaurs have more flexible backbones than are expected in straightforward bipeds. Did dinosaur ancestors evolve from a bounding form that switched to taking steps, to stalk prey?
Edited by kusanagi, Jul 30 2017, 11:39 AM.
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Dragonthunders
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I feel that you have misinterpreted the point and the context of that message a little, it has nothing to do with the possibility or impossibility of bipedalism similar to dinosaur theropods in mammals or of their possible convergent evolution but rather by the fact that people sometimes force this bauplan to create theropodal versions of carnivora mammals without specifying the reasons or circumstances that would happen, they only do so for the point of being different, or rather as it is impling in this topic, believing that they will be in the same "niche" as those theropods.
Of course, interesting points and in the proper conversation are useful, but I think they go a little out of place here.


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LittleLazyLass
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There is a thread over in future evolution about bipedals mammals, albeit armless ones. We could probably just hijack the thread to talk about bipedal mammals in general.
totally not British, b-baka!
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I don't even really like this song that much but the title is pretty relatable sometimes, I guess.
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TAXESbutNano
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Yeah bipedal mammals make total sense. Even if we discount hopping it's evolved on no less than three different occasions, debate closed, woot woot.
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Mao
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Also, people don't really seem to go into more specifics on what niche it is. Since ive only been in a few projects, I may be wrong, but ive seen this a lot. Say you made a large herbivore, and then you just say, "It plays a large herbivore niche". well, what kind? animals seem to have very different niches than what you think they are, for example, Hadrosaurs eat pinecones, what else kind of large herbivore does that? we know alteast some deer and moose do, but there should be more specific.
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Mao
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TAXESbutNano
Aug 5 2017, 01:47 PM
Yeah bipedal mammals make total sense. Even if we discount hopping it's evolved on no less than three different occasions, debate closed, woot woot.
No, bipedal mammals could potentially be possible.

Leptictidium, an early Eutherian, seemed to have reduced forelimbs, and it's leg musculature doesn't seem to be able to repeatedly jump. also, It probably stood in a horizontal, theropod-like stance, however, it's feet seem to be adapted for hopping rather than running. the consensus whether Leptictidium could actually walk or hop is unknown though.
As of my gender, I have every gender imaginable, some even inconceivable to your minds. I have every gender in the gender spectrum, as well as ones you cannot envision.
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TAXESbutNano
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Mao
Oct 15 2017, 08:34 PM
TAXESbutNano
Aug 5 2017, 01:47 PM
Yeah bipedal mammals make total sense. Even if we discount hopping it's evolved on no less than three different occasions, debate closed, woot woot.
No, bipedal mammals could potentially be possible.

Leptictidium, an early Eutherian, seemed to have reduced forelimbs, and it's leg musculature doesn't seem to be able to repeatedly jump. also, It probably stood in a horizontal, theropod-like stance, however, it's feet seem to be adapted for hopping rather than running. the consensus whether Leptictidium could actually walk or hop is unknown though.
That sentence was actually not a sarcastic one. I usually start stacking superlatives if I'm sarcastic.
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Mao
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Also, why not make an upright mammal instead of a vertically positioned one? I think it's an idea that isn't done a lot.
As of my gender, I have every gender imaginable, some even inconceivable to your minds. I have every gender in the gender spectrum, as well as ones you cannot envision.
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Carlos
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Tat's the basic idea for sthenurines, though their status as non-hopping bipeds has been questioned.
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