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| Free will doesn't exist | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 27 2008, 04:29 AM (894 Views) | |
| Carlos | Aug 27 2008, 04:29 AM Post #1 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/16/189248 I personaly don't agree with this. |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| lamna | Aug 27 2008, 04:34 AM Post #2 |
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Philosophy should never be mixed with science. One is the noble pursuit of knowledge. The other is arseing about trying to think up ways to confuse people. |
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| Sliver Slave | Aug 27 2008, 02:05 PM Post #3 |
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I'm going back to basics.
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I agree lamna. Science=/=philosophy. |
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Something is upsetting the ostriches. Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| Ànraich | Aug 27 2008, 03:33 PM Post #4 |
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi
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They're wrong, by their own hand. Why? Because atoms do have free will. The Copenhagen Inconsistancy theory shows that when you literally aren't looking, atoms and electrons do whatever they want; whether it obeys physics or not. Besides, human and animal free will is a concept of the logic center of the brain. It allows us to decide what is best for our survival; and allows us to contradict the basic laws of survival we commonly call insticnt. Even so, you can't describe everything with mathematics. |
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We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar. "The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming Tree That Owns Itself
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| Livyatan | Aug 27 2008, 04:12 PM Post #5 |
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Well, although philosophy has faults, that's no reason to say that philosophy is useless; philosophy was a great influence on early European science with Aristotle. I agree that free will does exist. |
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The grand Livyatan on deviantArt: link | |
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| Carlos | Aug 27 2008, 04:27 PM Post #6 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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So do I, specially with Parasky's comment. I think this shouldn't be spread in the internet though, since you know what will happen... |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Ànraich | Aug 27 2008, 09:21 PM Post #7 |
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi
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The mere fact that you have the ability to suggest that free will doesn't exist proves that it does! |
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We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar. "The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming Tree That Owns Itself
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| Carlos | Aug 28 2008, 03:49 AM Post #8 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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It wasn't me who did that; I simply posted that here because I wanted to see how you guys would react |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Reedstilt | Aug 28 2008, 09:45 AM Post #9 |
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Infant
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How does the ability to suggest that free will doesn't exist prove that it does? I believe free will* exists, but I don't see how the logic follows here. Perhaps chemical reactions in a person's brain were predestined from the moment of birth to inexorably lead that person to that conclusion. Anyhow, I find it very amusing that on another forum I visit, a thread recently appeared entitled "Princeton Mathematicians claim to prove Free Will exists." Ultimately, both that thread and this one link to the same article. I'll have to read the article again, but I don't think it actually says anything definitive about the nature of Free Will, allowing these two opposing interpretations. In this case, it just be a case of people leaping to conclusions -- typically I'd blame this on the part of the sensationalist reporting, a major problem in delivering new scientific discoveries to the public, but it might also be the result of the mathematicians boasting their own work. It's an interesting line of inquiry for particle physics, but it's implications for philosophy are minor at best. I don't see how this helps or hinders the Free Will argument any more so than what we already knew about physics and chemistry. *My assessment of Free Will is that it exists in a limited form. You're free to choose your path, but the maze provides a limited number of options. |
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| ItHasTeeth | Aug 30 2008, 09:49 PM Post #10 |
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Megaposter
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Hahaha! Touche! I like that responce.While I have nothing wrong with philosophy directly, it's an art that I feel is for the most part is dead. Besides, philosophy really isn't the kind of thing that one should be trying to prove/disprove by quantitative means. It's more just a way of thinking... about the whole idea of thinking... I guess. What ever, I'm more a psychology kinda guy. At least that can be (without a doubt) tested for with quantitative (rather then theoretical) results. ...I should really leave this discussion alone for people who actually understand the issue more then I do.
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| Carlos | Aug 31 2008, 06:50 AM Post #11 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Oh no, we would LOVE to see your opinion |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Cynovolans | Aug 31 2008, 09:16 AM Post #12 |
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Servant to Empress Min
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Philosphy strikes science. The philosphers have been attacking science since they started to lose power. We must not let them destroy us. |
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I wish I could give the public a true picture of the queen as she appeared at her best, but this would be impossible, even had she permitted a photograph to be taken, for her charming play of expression while in conversation, the character and intellect which were then revealed, were only half seen when the face was in repose. -Lilias Underwood when speaking of Empress Myeongseong "I was born in the dark. I went out into the light, and your Majesty, it is my displeasure to inform you that I have returned to the dark. I envision a Seoul of towering buildings filled with Western establishments that will place herself back above the Japanese barbarians. Great things lie ahead for the Kingdom, great things. We must take action, your Majesty, without hesitation, to further modernize this still ancient kingdom."-Min Young-ik to Empress Myeongseong | |
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| Carlos | Aug 31 2008, 11:31 AM Post #13 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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That looks like one of my statements about religion |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Ànraich | Aug 31 2008, 11:45 AM Post #14 |
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi
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Philosophy is something that will exist forever; that needs to exist forever. If not, the style of though for humanity eventually becomes stagnant. Without philosophy, there are no people who use abstract ways of thinking to change the way humanity does things. Take for instant the Greeks of old. Their philosophers such as Socrates and Plato created the concept of democracy; an abstract view of doing things at that time. And today, democracy is about the only way to get things done (even if it is complicated and imperfect). |
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We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar. "The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming Tree That Owns Itself
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I like that responce.

3:38 AM Jul 11