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| DC Comics; Because we need something to talk about comics. | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 17 2014, 05:52 PM (4,407 Views) | |
| Troy Troodon | Jun 13 2015, 08:27 PM Post #121 |
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I didn't say that Watchmen is a deconstruction of anti-heroes. I said Gods and monsters, looks like a deconstruction, similar to watchmen. |
| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Troy Troodon | Jun 25 2015, 11:24 AM Post #122 |
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So anyway, Arkham Knight came out. And I kind'a got mixed feelings toward it. |
| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Troy Troodon | Jul 11 2015, 05:07 PM Post #123 |
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My response as followed:
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| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Carlos | Jul 17 2015, 05:52 PM Post #124 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Watched the actual Gods and Monsters movie, that just came out. Actually was rather good. |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Troy Troodon | Jul 19 2015, 12:20 PM Post #125 |
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I kind'a liked it to. It had problems sure, but it was pretty good for the most part, sort'a reminded me of Watchmen or Miracleman to an extent. Though I still stand behind my reason that not everything has to be dark and "Mature"
Edited by Troy Troodon, Jul 19 2015, 12:21 PM.
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| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Troy Troodon | Dec 3 2015, 07:50 PM Post #126 |
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If there's a couple things I'll give is that it does show more color and humor than MoS, based on what I've seen thus far. Jessie Eisenberg in particular id definitely having fun with the role he's given, playing out the wacky comic book villain role, though I can't help but feel that they're ripping off Loki to a degree. Now I can kind'a see that the Gene Hackman influence, but really I feel more like this would be a better ToyMan than Lex Luthor. But again, at least they got some jokes to make up for the action and drama. Also... DOOMSDAY?! Really, now?! Could they really, not have used Bizzaro?! And he doesn't even look like Doomsday, and the cgi itself isn't really all that impressive! Actually you know something else... did they just reveal the entire movie into that single trailer?! Ugh, anyway based on what I've seen so far, Batman V Superman may very well be better than Man of Steel. I still don't think it will be good, but again, at least it'll still be better. |
| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Canis Lupis | Dec 3 2015, 10:39 PM Post #127 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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First trailer had me excited. But now, I think it might be DC's answer to Fant4stic. It just looks awful. Ben Affleck is playing Ben Affleck, not Bruce Wayne or Batman. Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor is not Lex Luthor; it's a more megalomaniacal Mark Zuckerberg. I'd say he's like a cartoon character, except that the cartoon version of Luthor is sooooo much better. Wonder Woman looks shoehorned in, as I expected. As much as I want to see Wonder Woman finally get a movie, I think they should stick to developing Superman and Batman's conflict in this film instead of trying to hastily add Wonder Woman. Adding her just makes the development of all three characters weaker. And I agree. That Doomsday looks awful. I thought it was Bizarro at first, which would make so much more sense since in some versions he is a Luthor creation. But no, Doomsday is just...god, he looks like the cave troll from "Fellowship of the Ring." I tell you, I was excited for this as I love the Batman vs Superman moral conflicts. They are some of my favorite parts of the DC Universe, especially since I tend to side with Batman a lot more than I do Superman. Heck, my favorite part about "The Dark Knight Returns" was undoubtedly the Superman/Batman fight at the end. This movie was obviously intended to pay homage to that in some way, but it's screwing it all up. I realize that DC wants to get a Justice League movie out there so they can compete with Marvel, but this isn't the way to do it. Marvel realized that they needed to go slow with their development so that they could flesh out the characters before throwing them in together. That way, you could understand their internal conflicts and personalities before you see them team up. By watching them work solo, you as the viewer want them to team up. Maybe DC doesn't have the luxury to slow down, but I think they are making a mistake by not trying. |
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| Kamidio | Dec 3 2015, 11:40 PM Post #128 |
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The Game Master of the SSU:NC
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Honestly, the first mistake they made was starting off their movieverse with Zack Snyder at the helm. Unlike the Avengers, where everyone wears some combination of red, blue, and yellow, the founding seven of the Justice League have one member for each color of the rainbow, plus black. The DC movieverse could have been so colorful! Flash is red, Aquaman is orange, Wonder Woman is yellow, Green Lantern is green, Superman is blue, and Martian Manhunter is violet. Batman is black, which would have futher emphasized the color by adding a contrast. They could've gotten extremely creative with costume design, too! Aquaman's tattoos could've been orange, and his armor could've been gold! Instead we got a bunch of really drab greys. Hell, imagine Aquaman's tattoos glowing while at the ocean floor! It would've been a great costume! But nah, DC looked at the guy who made that turd of a Watchmen adaptation a few years back and went "Let's put him in charge." I'll just wait for another 20 years, and see what happens then. Maybe there'll be some good DC movies by then, because there hasn't been a good DC film since Batman Returns. Edited by Kamidio, Dec 3 2015, 11:45 PM.
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SSU:NC - Finding a new home. Quotes WAA
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| Canis Lupis | Dec 4 2015, 12:15 AM Post #129 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Don't you dare call "Watchmen" a turd of a movie. I absolutely loved it! "Watchmen" is my favorite comic of all time, bar none, and I felt the movie did a faithful job adapting it to the screen (or at least as faithful as it could have been. "Watchmen" is one hard comic to adapt). Without a doubt, "Watchmen" is my second favorite superhero movie of all time, after "The Dark Knight," of course. I do agree that Zack Snyder may be a poor choice for the DCCU, though. Batman he'd be fine with, since he does tend to favor a dark cinematic style. But Superman, Wonder Woman, and most of the rest of the Justice League don't jive with that darkness. I'm not sure who I would have picked instead of Zack Snyder, but I do agree that his visual style is all wrong for the DCCU. Also, no good DC movie since "Batman Returns?" Were you asleep during the Nolan trilogy? Edited by Canis Lupis, Dec 4 2015, 12:16 AM.
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| Troy Troodon | Dec 4 2015, 12:26 AM Post #130 |
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First off
In TDKR continuity, Frank Millar made Superman that way to make Batman look better, because he openly dislikes Superman like other people who don't get his character! Sorry, sorry, that's my "People don't get Superman" vent reaching out again. Anyway. The ending could have been better. Zack Snyder didn't trust his audience like how Alan Moore did with the original book. Also, Jollyneigh just doesn't like Nolan's Batman trilogy, and I can understand why. I liked those movies, but I felt that Christopher Nolan may have relied too much on the use of hyper realism, which maaaay have done a *Clears Throat* slight disservice to part of the DC community. If there's one thing Marvel has shown us is that while you can add some realistic adjustments to better translate certain material from a comic to a live-action movie or tv show (Like with Iron Man's armor for instance) in the end these are still superheroes we're looking at. It's okay for superheroes to be a little silly from time to time, that's one reason why we enjoy superhero comics in the first place, because they're fun! Edited by Troy Troodon, Dec 4 2015, 12:29 AM.
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| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Canis Lupis | Dec 4 2015, 12:55 AM Post #131 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Agreed. I just feel like Batman has, in recent years especially, been a less-silly and more-grounded superhero. Sure, you have silly examples like Adam West and Joel Schumacher, but for the most part he's pretty grounded. I think Nolan's trilogy is a perfect adaptation of Batman. It wouldn't work for any other DC superhero with the possible exception of Green Arrow (though I highly doubt this), but it worked great for Batman. On the whole, Marvel isn't as serious when it comes to their comics as DC. Sure, there are some incredibly dark and somber Marvel comics out there, but DC strives for darker comics a lot of the time. I mean, "Kingdom Come?" "Dark Knight Returns?" "Watchmen?" "Under the Red Hood?" "The Killing Joke?" "Death in the Family?" "Death of the Family?" "Flashpoint?" "Red Son?" "Crisis on Infinite Earths?" Those are all quite dark and in line with DC's vision for superheroes. That's why they are going for a much grittier, more down-to-earth universe than Marvel. DC has been well-known for attempting to subvert the superhero genre, most notably with "Watchmen" and as such they have recently been trying their hardest to avoid campiness. Marvel rather has embraced the superhero genre with all its campiness and silliness. Deadpool is the perfect embodiment of this. He is a character that DC would never put into their comics, but yet he is one that Marvel has fully embraced. Both studios have different takes on what makes superhero stories great. Both tend to believe that the superhero is an allegory for ourselves and our political conflicts. DC goes about this by making their characters into, essentially, moral absolutes. While there is some gray in some of the characters, each character has their own distinct thought process. Marvel, rather, sees their superheroes as human beings (even their aliens) with multiple complex thoughts and personality traits. In addition, DC tends to portray their superheroes as leaders and moral figures for society to rally behind. Marvel, on the other hand, tends to portray their superheroes as no better or worse than the average everyday citizen. DC's heroes are gods, sometimes literally; Marvel's are human. |
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| Troy Troodon | Dec 4 2015, 01:06 AM Post #132 |
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You know the concept of Batman is rather silly in of itself. Think about, it's about a man who dresses up like a bat to fight a deranged clown in a purple suite, and his sidekick is a kid named after a bird. And again, while I enjoyed Nolan's films, they're not really "The Best" or "Perfect" interpretation of the mythos. Yes Batman is preferably dark, but even Batman comics had their own fair share of joy and comedy so that the readers don't get too depressed. And I think you got it backwards, your right about how Marvel's heroes are more "Human" than DC's, but it's because of that, that it's Marvel that as more dark stories than DC. Of course DC has had it's own fair share with dark superhero stories (Excluding Watchmen!) such as the likes of What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way, and some books focusing on The Titans; but even then they still had some level of levity and humor and didn't rely too much on realism otherwise you loose that fictional comic book aspect. BTW, if you excuse the New52's Harley Quinn, Lobo was practically DC's answer to Deadpool already. Edited by Troy Troodon, Dec 4 2015, 02:16 AM.
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| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Canis Lupis | Dec 4 2015, 01:28 AM Post #133 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Yeah, I could see Lobo being DC's Deadpool. But here's the thing: while that may actually be true in the comics that Marvel is darker than DC (again, up for debate), the public has a different perception. For whatever reason, the public (read: those who have never actually picked up a comic yet still enjoy the superhero genre) think that Marvel is considerably lighter than DC. Both have their share of incredibly dark comics. I mean, there was a Spider-Man comic about 9-11 for crying out loud. Not a 9-11 allegory, but actual 9-11! Anyway, Marvel and DC are in the business of making money and thus have to play into public perception. A super gritty take on a Marvel superhero is not going to go over well in today's cinema. I mean, can you imagine a Nolan film series that does to Spider-Man what he did to Batman? It would get huge backlash. Similarly, if Joss Whedon were to do to Batman what he's done to the Avengers, there would be some backlash from the general public. Sure, the Joss Whedon style would work with Superman I think, and the Nolan style would work with the Hulk. But the public would likely not think so. DC has an issue: too lighthearted, and it's associated too negatively with Adam West Batman, the Joel Schumacher films, Superman IV, and Lois and Clark; too dark and you get the backlash to Man of Steel and Batman v Superman. Frankly, they are in a pickle with this film. Batman is, to the public, negatively associated with camp; Superman is negatively associated with dark and brooding. Mixing the two together means you're going to have to compromise, and it's going to be jarring to the public. I will still go see this movie, and I really hope its good. I don't want Marvel, much as I love them (FYI, I'm more of a Marvel fanboy than a DC one, despite my absolute adoration for Batman), to be the only one making superhero movies when DC has been in the superhero game far longer. DC's superheroes have, traditionally, been more iconic than Marvel's, and I would love to see successful DC films. The Nolan trilogy works; the Michael Keeton films work; the first two Superman movies work; Arrow, the Flash, and the original Teen Titans show work. I really hope that this attempt at a DCCU works, because DC's villains are wholly superior to Marvel's, and I would love to see them on-screen. If the movie is more like the first trailer, it will be awesome; if it's more like this trailer, I feel it will be a fustercluck of too many storylines. Back to your silliness of Batman idea, yes, it is. Heck, the entire idea of a superhero is downright silly. But if you accept that premise and roll with it, Batman is the most grounded mainstream superhero out there, despite his treatment in the Silver Age. |
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| Troy Troodon | Dec 4 2015, 01:47 AM Post #134 |
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That's where I was getting at. As long as creative teams understand the mythos of a certain comic, and so long as they know how to tell a good story with said characters and have fun with, the project can turn out to be very well told and entertaining. Heck if you want good examples of a light hearted Batman, check out the Lego DC projects, as well as Batman: The Brave and the Bold, and even Batman Unlimited; and Batman 66. And if your looking for dark Superman stories, look up the John Bryne titles as well as Geoff John's work before the New52. (Because New52 Superman is a jerk.) Additional Note: (I know Watchmen is DC property, but when I say DC I refer to the mainstream universe, I exclude Watchmen when talking about Dark DC Comics.) Edited by Troy Troodon, Dec 4 2015, 01:57 AM.
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| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Canis Lupis | Dec 4 2015, 01:57 AM Post #135 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Oh, I love Lego Batman. Granted, I am going off his portrayal in the "Lego Movie," but it still cracks me up. Yeah, I'm not a big Superman fan, but I love his portrayal in "Kingdom Come" and "Red Son." My friends have told me to check out a movie called, "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow," so hopefully I end liking that as well |
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