Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Speculative biology is simultaneously a science and form of art in which one speculates on the possibilities of life and evolution. What could the world look like if dinosaurs had never gone extinct? What could alien lifeforms look like? What kinds of plants and animals might exist in the far future? These questions and more are tackled by speculative biologists, and the Speculative Evolution welcomes all relevant ideas, inquiries, and world-building projects alike. With a member base comprising users from across the world, our community is the largest and longest-running place of gathering for speculative biologists on the web.

While unregistered users are able to browse the forum on a basic level, registering an account provides additional forum access not visible to guests as well as the ability to join in discussions and contribute yourself! Registration is free and instantaneous.

Join our community today!

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Without Man; The Alternative Zoology of the Future
Topic Started: Aug 5 2008, 11:24 AM (5,121 Views)
Reedstilt
Infant
 *  *  *  *
This is a project I've been considering for a while, but haven't really started up yet. Figured it might be interesting to collaborates with some other speculative biologists on this one.

The premise is humans never evolved. Turning the dial back to Australopithecus, we replay the last four million years and project a bit into the future as well (not sure how far yet; we can collectively decide on that.) Australopithecus can give rise to other genera, but Intelligence of our caliber never evolves, at least not right way. Our end game might be the advent of a different intelligent lifeform on earth.

The main point of the project is to imagine an alternative world where the changes humans have caused to the environment and the extinctions exacerbated by human activity never happened, and project that world into the future.

So who wants to play?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Replies:
Cynovolans
Member Avatar
Servant to Empress Min
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Sorry but I think ducks, geese, herons, and other waterbirds already covered the freshwater areas.
I wish I could give the public a true picture of the queen as she appeared at her best, but this would be impossible, even had she permitted a photograph to be taken, for her charming play of expression while in conversation, the character and intellect which were then revealed, were only half seen when the face was in repose. -Lilias Underwood when speaking of Empress Myeongseong

"I was born in the dark. I went out into the light, and your Majesty, it is my displeasure to inform you that I have returned to the dark. I envision a Seoul of towering buildings filled with Western establishments that will place herself back above the Japanese barbarians. Great things lie ahead for the Kingdom, great things. We must take action, your Majesty, without hesitation, to further modernize this still ancient kingdom."-Min Young-ik to Empress Myeongseong
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Reedstilt
Infant
 *  *  *  *
I was considering that these freshwater flightless auks would inhabit a niche similar to the Baikal Seal, rather than on similar to other birds.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Carlos
Member Avatar
Adveho in me Lucifero
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
I like your idea. In addition to freshwater species I think some island dweeling ones could become terrestrial, as auks walk better on land than penguins, but I don't know if they are too much specialized to marine niches.
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Livyatan


JohnFaa
Aug 19 2008, 05:43 PM
I like your idea. In addition to freshwater species I think some island dweeling ones could become terrestrial, as auks walk better on land than penguins, but I don't know if they are too much specialized to marine niches.
I don't think they would succeed in non-marine niches :/
The grand Livyatan on deviantArt: link

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Carlos
Member Avatar
Adveho in me Lucifero
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Okay. Just wanted to know
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Reedstilt
Infant
 *  *  *  *
@ Paleognath, by non-marine do you mean marine vs. terrestrial or seas vs. freshwater, or both?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Livyatan


Reedstilt
Aug 19 2008, 07:12 PM
@ Paleognath, by non-marine do you mean marine vs. terrestrial or seas vs. freshwater, or both?
I'm not expert on the auk family so I wouldn't know about a freshwater lifestyle, but when examining trends in both bird and general large sea animal evolution, its not often you find marine birds taking on a freshwater lifestyle. Even the Baikal seal doesn't live in true freshwater. Of course, there are the river dolphins, but river dolphins are poorly understood and are not easy to base anything off of. I'd suggest studying the habits and anatomy of auks a little deeper before really defining the idea. ;)
The grand Livyatan on deviantArt: link

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Carlos
Member Avatar
Adveho in me Lucifero
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
I think marine mammals adapt easily to freshwater biomes. Dolphins, porpoises, seals and even grey whales have all been sighted in rivers occasionaly, and its no wonder how the the Baikal seal and the Caspian seal ended up in those lakes; in the ice ages river going seals were forced to go southwards and got trapped there. There's even some suggestions that the mysterious waitoreke is some kind of fur seal living in New Zealands rivers and lakes, so there's really not much to know about freshwater marine mammals.

I think flightless seabirds don't adapt so easily to live in lakes and rivers due to competion with loons and grebes
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Livyatan


JohnFaa
Aug 20 2008, 04:01 PM
the Baikal seal and the Caspian seal ended up in those lakes; in the ice ages river going seals were forced to go southwards and got trapped there.

Actually the Caspian seal lives in saltwater. Plus, the Baikal seal is the only example of a seal in freshwater (other than two subspecies of ringed seals), suggesting that they might not adapt to freshwater that easily.

Also, just because gray whales can come in rivers, does not mean they can live there their entire lives.
The grand Livyatan on deviantArt: link

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Carlos
Member Avatar
Adveho in me Lucifero
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
I was giving an example of how easy marine mammals can be found in freshwater. Besides, the Caspian Sea is isolated from the sea long before seals arrived ther; how did they got there if they didn't went by rivers?
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Livyatan


JohnFaa
Aug 20 2008, 05:00 PM
I was giving an example of how easy marine mammals can be found in freshwater. Besides, the Caspian Sea is isolated from the sea long before seals arrived ther; how did they got there if they didn't went by rivers?
Perhaps not rivers? Scientists don't really understand how they got there, so assumptions like that would be putting it to far. Plus, they live in the Caspian Sea's saline waters and are not considered freshwater animals.

Wikipedia's input:

Quote:
 
It is so-far unclear as to how these seals became isolated in the landlocked Caspian Sea, and hypotheses have been put forth to explain this enigmatic situation. One of the most widely known hypotheses argues that the seals reached the Caspian during the Quaternary period from the north when continental ice sheets and proglacial lakes were growing. (See West Siberian Glacial Lake.) It may also be the case that the seals invaded this region during the late Pliocene cooling around 2 million years ago. It is generally thought that the Caspian seals, along with the Baikal seals (another isolated species of seals in a Eurasian basin), descended from the Ringed seal.
The grand Livyatan on deviantArt: link

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Venatosaurus
Member Avatar
HAUS OF SPEC
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
A lot species would be around obviously, Carolina parakeet, quaggas, etc.. ecosystems would be very different too, because had some species stayed around they would have begum to change too.
Edited by Venatosaurus, Sep 2 2008, 07:48 PM.



Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Carlos
Member Avatar
Adveho in me Lucifero
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Maybe; primates are really a group of mammals "specialized in not being specialized", so to speak. Therefore, I think they are capable of producing coastoal forms.
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Cynovolans
Member Avatar
Servant to Empress Min
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
If there are not any primates that live near the coast today then I know they have once at least lived near the coast. Especially when the Sahara was a large swamp.
I wish I could give the public a true picture of the queen as she appeared at her best, but this would be impossible, even had she permitted a photograph to be taken, for her charming play of expression while in conversation, the character and intellect which were then revealed, were only half seen when the face was in repose. -Lilias Underwood when speaking of Empress Myeongseong

"I was born in the dark. I went out into the light, and your Majesty, it is my displeasure to inform you that I have returned to the dark. I envision a Seoul of towering buildings filled with Western establishments that will place herself back above the Japanese barbarians. Great things lie ahead for the Kingdom, great things. We must take action, your Majesty, without hesitation, to further modernize this still ancient kingdom."-Min Young-ik to Empress Myeongseong
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
irbaboon
Adolescent
 *  *  *  *  *
What other genera do you see Australopithecus giving rise to?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Alternative Evolution · Next Topic »
Add Reply