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Without Man; The Alternative Zoology of the Future
Topic Started: Aug 5 2008, 11:24 AM (5,122 Views)
Reedstilt
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This is a project I've been considering for a while, but haven't really started up yet. Figured it might be interesting to collaborates with some other speculative biologists on this one.

The premise is humans never evolved. Turning the dial back to Australopithecus, we replay the last four million years and project a bit into the future as well (not sure how far yet; we can collectively decide on that.) Australopithecus can give rise to other genera, but Intelligence of our caliber never evolves, at least not right way. Our end game might be the advent of a different intelligent lifeform on earth.

The main point of the project is to imagine an alternative world where the changes humans have caused to the environment and the extinctions exacerbated by human activity never happened, and project that world into the future.

So who wants to play?
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Knnoar
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Smilodon gave way to its own extinctio in South America, but I dont know how they died in the North. When the Colonized South America, they became the top predator, and soon they had pretty much wiped out the prey they could catch, and left them with small, but fast creatures, which they couldnt catch. They where made for stealth, not for speed, so by colonizing the south, they gave way to their own demise. Thats what I read in this book once, about prehistoric beasts.
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Carlos
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A predator can't wipe out so much prey. Indeed, humans proved to be the only predators that created mass extinctions. Smilodon was a victim of human beings, which hunted the megafauna that saber toothed cats preyed on. Although Smilodon could had been responsible for the extinction of terror birds and Thylacosmilus, which would had been outcompeted by northern predators
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Livyatan


What JohnFaa says is exactly true. Smilodon was only responsible for the extinction of terror birds and some marsupials, having little effect on the herbivores. In fact, the cat would probably have fit quite well in the ecosystem, by replacing the native predators. It was not like the domestic cat in its effect on natural wildlife.
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Carlos
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Although you can't deny many southern herbivores such as nearly all south american "ungulates" disappeared after the arrival of Smilodon. Although competion with true ungulates might be the responsible.
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Livyatan


JohnFaa
Aug 8 2008, 05:41 PM
Although competion with true ungulates might be the responsible.
Exactly. I really doubt smilodonts were the major contributors to any such extinctions.
The grand Livyatan on deviantArt: link

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Knnoar
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I must have misread, sorry for wasting your time.
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Black_Panther
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I don't know...perhaps Smilodon could have evolved into different species?
Perhaps a species adapted to the central America jungles, one able to hunt in the Andes and the rockier South America; and one that could rely in hunting bison on the north american prairies?

But perhaps an species adapted to jungle could end in the extinction of the jaguar in the south american rainforests.

Which are you toughts on this?
Edited by Black_Panther, Aug 17 2008, 10:46 PM.
http://spidervenom022.deviantart.com

Go in there for some odd stuff that could make you puke, and ask for some free sketches. :)
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Cynovolans
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Mountain lions live from Canada all the way to the end of South America as one species, and jaguars live from deserts in Mexico to rainforest in Uruguay ot use to live that far before humans. Lions use to even live from South Africa to the mountains of Chile. I don't think the smilodon would become different species, but still with some physical differences.
Edited by Cynovolans, Aug 18 2008, 06:40 PM.
I wish I could give the public a true picture of the queen as she appeared at her best, but this would be impossible, even had she permitted a photograph to be taken, for her charming play of expression while in conversation, the character and intellect which were then revealed, were only half seen when the face was in repose. -Lilias Underwood when speaking of Empress Myeongseong

"I was born in the dark. I went out into the light, and your Majesty, it is my displeasure to inform you that I have returned to the dark. I envision a Seoul of towering buildings filled with Western establishments that will place herself back above the Japanese barbarians. Great things lie ahead for the Kingdom, great things. We must take action, your Majesty, without hesitation, to further modernize this still ancient kingdom."-Min Young-ik to Empress Myeongseong
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mnidjm
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Smilodon went extict before people.


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Livyatan


mnidjm
Aug 18 2008, 08:09 PM
Smilodon went extict before people.
... It didn't? It went extinct 10,000 years ago, well after humans arrived in the Americas. :|
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mnidjm
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From wikipedia:
Quote:
 
Smilodon became extinct around 10,000 BC in course of the Quaternary extinction event, which saw the extinction of many other large herbivorous and carnivorous mammals.

Often prehistoric humans, which reached North America at the end of the Ice age, are supposed to be responsible for this extinction wave. Others have suggested that the end of the ice age caused the extinction. As the ice age ended there would have been shrinking environments and changing vegetation patterns. Extensive grasslands, with different types of grasses, and isolated forests replaced healthy mixes of forests and grasslands[sic]. The summer and winter both became more extreme and North America began to dry out or begin to be covered in snow, thus denying food sources for mammoths and in turn Smilodon. However, this hypothesis does not explain how Smilodon and its ancestors successfully survived many previous interglacials.

It's still up for debate.


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devlimjm
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naitives killed them, dude.
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Cynovolans
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mnidjm
Aug 18 2008, 08:24 PM
From wikipedia:
Quote:
 
Smilodon became extinct around 10,000 BC in course of the Quaternary extinction event, which saw the extinction of many other large herbivorous and carnivorous mammals.

Often prehistoric humans, which reached North America at the end of the Ice age, are supposed to be responsible for this extinction wave. Others have suggested that the end of the ice age caused the extinction. As the ice age ended there would have been shrinking environments and changing vegetation patterns. Extensive grasslands, with different types of grasses, and isolated forests replaced healthy mixes of forests and grasslands[sic]. The summer and winter both became more extreme and North America began to dry out or begin to be covered in snow, thus denying food sources for mammoths and in turn Smilodon. However, this hypothesis does not explain how Smilodon and its ancestors successfully survived many previous interglacials.

It's still up for debate.
That is discussing what killed smilodons, not if humans were in the Americas by the time they were extinct.
I wish I could give the public a true picture of the queen as she appeared at her best, but this would be impossible, even had she permitted a photograph to be taken, for her charming play of expression while in conversation, the character and intellect which were then revealed, were only half seen when the face was in repose. -Lilias Underwood when speaking of Empress Myeongseong

"I was born in the dark. I went out into the light, and your Majesty, it is my displeasure to inform you that I have returned to the dark. I envision a Seoul of towering buildings filled with Western establishments that will place herself back above the Japanese barbarians. Great things lie ahead for the Kingdom, great things. We must take action, your Majesty, without hesitation, to further modernize this still ancient kingdom."-Min Young-ik to Empress Myeongseong
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Carlos
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It was a mixture of climatic changes, overhunting (of their prey) and dieseases transmited by the human beings and/or their dogs
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Reedstilt
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Okay, so as a mundane and simple idea to get started, how about the Great Auk as the progenitor of an increasingly penguin-like group of marine birds. They'd radiate southward through the Atlantic and into the Mediterranean. Things to consider is how do the various species of flightless auk at (arbitrary number of Millions of Years in the future*) differ from each other and from their Penguin counterparts in the Southern Hemisphere. I'd like to think that there'd be a few freshwater species inhabiting lakes and interior seas opened up and closed again by various climate and tectonic changes. For example, if a future glaciation dug out a new series of Great Lakes, a species of flightless auk could colonize at least the equivalent of Lake Ontario. If anything like Niagra Falls is in their way though that'll cause problems.

Also, for the sake of argument, let's assume that humans played the crucial role in the extinction of Ice Age megafauna. Other factors were likely in play as well, but for our puposes we can assume that the presence of humans was the final nail in the coffin. If we want, we can postulate that some of the Ice Age fauna was on its way out the door regardless of what happened with or without humans, but those will be on a case by case basis.

*Speaking of an arbitrary date in the future, anyone want to suggest a good one for us to work with? I'm thinking something in the 10-25MYH range. Gives us plenty of time to work with with.
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