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How could America be invaded?
Topic Started: Nov 16 2012, 01:01 AM (996 Views)
Yorick
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Anyway, with the "Red Dawn" remake being released soon, I've been thinking about an invasion America flick myself.

The remake changed the main villains to the North Koreans in post-production (the film was further delayed by a year because of it and the editing cost $1 mil) instead of the Chinese as to not annoy such a lucrative market.

Screw that. My idea has a Sino-Iranian force invading America ten years into the future. Everything above the Platte River and west of the Rocky Mountains and the Rio Grande is controlled by the enemy. In the middle of the flick, it is revealed that brave a Canadian force halted the invaders at the Mississippi River in a fierce and blood pitched battle in a 21st century version of the Schlieffen Plan. Washington has been nuked and lowly cabinet secretary (if which I haven't decided yet) is now the president. Allied North Korea is keeping South Korea and Japan busy.

The film also feature guerrilla warriors like "Red Dawn" but it is an ensemble drama set across America where various characters in occupied Oregon, devastated Washington and battered Texas (a pitched battle between a ragtag Texas militia defending against an invasion in the Lone Star state) fight on to protect their homeland and keep hope alive.

I know that an invasion of America by terrestrial forces, even in a grim future for the country, is highly unlikely to the point of impossible but that is why we have suspension of disbelief.

What I need is for you guys to give me a couple of reasons why the American military has been weakened and the details of what drove the invading force to launch such a risky maneuver.

So far, I have that China is one of the world fastest growing economies and world players but a bubble is about to pop. They are running out of natural resources to mine and farmland to raze to continue growing and the increasing male population is starting to batter their growth too. America has lots of farmland and a lot of fossil fuels. And Iran is just fed up with America stepping on its nuclear ambitions and wants to put it in its place. (I might throw in something about religious fundamentalism in the country.)

America is in a brutal recession and is downsizing the military, notably the navy, whose patrolling of the Atlantic and Pacific oceans usually keeps potential invaders at bay. Maybe there's an earlier pandemic that weakens America like that video game "Homefront" did?

What plausible military tactics would a Sino-Iranian force take to invade us? Should Mexico be used as a doorway?
Edited by Yorick, Nov 16 2012, 11:08 PM.
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lamna
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Maybe China could use those magical carrier killer missiles of theirs, though apparently because it's a ballistic missile using it would mean the US would assume that they were under nuclear attack and respond accordingly.

Why would Iran want to invade the USA? Assuming the current regime survives, won't they be more focused on the middle east?

I can't think of a good reason why the USN would be weak enough to allow massive troop landings. Maybe the fleet continues in the "bigger, better" direction most navies are going in, so they have less ships to deal with potential threats and each one lost is a bigger loss, but even then, ships stay in service a long time, and are mothballed longer.

I would recommend showing military being COIN focused, rather than open warfare. Back in 2001 most of NATO were still armed and equipped to fight a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, and they had a hard time of it in Afghanistan. The Canadian's didn't even have desert camo. You could have it reversed whenever your invasion takes place, with everything being optimised to take out insurgents and not enough armour.
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America has lots of farmland and a lot of fossil fuels (and women too).


Well, that makes perfect sense. China goes to war with an economically important trading partner so that its surplus male population can... rape American women? Sounds perfectly plausible. :|

Also, why is sexual brutalisation a seeming theme of your story suggestions? Is this an attempt to forge an inroads to the salacious expectations of your percieved target audience?
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dialforthedevil
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Surely Iran would take the chance to wipe Israel off of the face of the Earth first? Rather than invade the US? Sure Iran might have an anti-US among its politicians, but surely they would attack Israel first... And that would be no easy feat, the Israelis have been preparing for that for decades.
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bloom_boi
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I am pretty sure the U.S.A is somewhat lacking in fossile fuels compared to China.
I much approve of Lammna reverse unpreparedness and North Korea keeping the U.S' allies busy, though I think they would get *ahem* owned pretty quickly.

But I want more reasons why? The ones you gave are hardly enough. Maybe something to do with Japan, and the U.S.A, like always, sticking their grubby fingers in it (though I admit, they would have to in that case).
But I doubt that would lead to invasion.
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lamna
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Quote:
 
America has lots of farmland and a lot of fossil fuels (and women too).
Yeah that is a very odd motivation for war. Rape happens in all big wars, and most small ones, but it's rarely the casus belli.
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I am pretty sure the U.S.A is somewhat lacking in fossile fuels compared to China.

The USA is quite rich in fossil fuels, it's just they use so much themselves it's hard to notice. Only the Saudis and Russians produce more petroleum than the USA.

I can't think of a good reason that China would want to invade the USA, but then there was no good reason for the German Empire to go to war with it's biggest trading partner.

Invasion fiction has been done to death, you need to bring something new to the table. If I was going to do something, I'd set it in my "Our Problem Solved" universe, where the Western Allies managed to get to Berlin before the Soviets, and after the War dissolved Germany.

60 years later and the USSR is still alive and kicking, and it's mostly a nicer place than our Russia thanks to Glastnost and Perestroika working, at least if you're Russian. The Cold War ended, or at least has entered an extended period of détente, but tensions remain high. China's still very Maoist and extremely pissed about not being able to conquer Hong Kong or "liberate" Afghanistan back in 1989-90. Saddam's triumphant, master of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Khuzestan with his own nuclear weapons and even some miniature space shuttles. He's allied with para-fascist Romania, who also have nuclear weapons. You could have a lot of fun in that world.
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There's a rifle behind every lade of grass. Invasion of the continental U.S. is suicide.
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lamna
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If you're savage or nice enough, and have the force to back it up, that's not important.
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Every blade of grass. We have lots of that here in the U.S.
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Yorick
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Well, that makes perfect sense. China goes to war with an economically important trading partner so that its surplus male population can... rape American women? Sounds perfectly plausible.


You have no idea how much I'm cracking up right now.

I realized that was silly and was going to edit that out, forgot to do so for some reason, and like an idiot didn't proofread before posting and... well, here we are.

I wouldn't even bother editing that huge mistake (which I completely admit I made) if I didn't think people would get caught up with that point.

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But I want more reasons why? The ones you gave are hardly enough.


Greed and desperation seems like motive enough but I'm always willing to hear more. Ultimately, the why is just a McGuffin (a nice little term that the great Alfred Hitchcock coined) to get the invasion rolling.

The how is more important and the what (as in what happens now?) is the most important of all.

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There's a rifle behind every lade of grass. Invasion of the continental U.S. is suicide.


I know but wouldn't you like to see that on the big screen?
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lamna
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I'd rather see a big clash of armour, or a fleet battle. A random group of unusually attractive twenty something teenagers somehow managing to conduct a successful guerilla campaign against a vastly superior force don't grab my interest.

You need to remember two things when creating believe characters and motives for something. The vast majority of the human race try to be good people but are incompetent at what they do. Too often in fiction (and conspiracy theories) everyone involved is hypercompetent and evil for the hell of it.

I was listening to In Our Time about the Glorious Revolution and wondering if you could use something like that. The United States president is pretty awful, and a significant percentage of people think he's leading the country to ruin, so they invite someone from a foreign power to help oust him, and their liberator doesn't want to go home?

It's just and idea, read more history, it will help you work out the future.

If you want the USA to be weak you could have disarmament become popular again. That was one of the main reasons that WWII could have happened at all, and why France was steam-rolled.

Maybe at this point Brazil or India could be the world's police men. How far in the future is this happening?
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Yorick
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It's just and idea, read more history, it will help you work out the future.


If you want the USA to be weak you could have disarmament become popular again. That was one of the main reasons that WWII could have happened at all, and why France was steam-rolled.[/quote]

Yeah. Disarmament. A combo of the enemies getting stronger and America getting weaker.

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Maybe at this point Brazil or India could be the world's police men. How far in the future is this happening?


No less than ten years, no more than 20.

I don't want distracting advanced technologies and I want the audience to better relate to the situation.

And on another note, isn't India also gonna suffer in the future? Their population is gonna be in trouble because of female abortions and from what I hear, their rising economy and thus, more energy being used, is leading to environmental disaster.
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dialforthedevil
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What would be interesting is having the invader having orbital supremacy meaning that they can constantly track movements and rapidly deploy troops onto the ground without having to maintain them there. I would expect them to bombard major cities rather than march in and take them.

Perhaps take this disarmament idea as the US disarms, meanwhile tensions continue to rise in China and India resulting in a full on war as the huge Indian populations begin to settle in Chinese territory. China begins to try and clear them out but India refuses to take them back. War begins. The US comes out in support for India and sends over a taskforce to aid the Indians, the taskforce which was massively behind in technology due to disarmament suffers defeat after defeat. The US government enters negotiations to withdraw completely from the Pacific and further disarm, although as elections come round the populace all vote in heavily right wing government who proceed to try and rapidly rearm. The increased spending on the military leaves other aspects such as benefits and healthcare vastly underfunded resulting in a much poorer quality of life for Americans. The US attempts further strikes against the Chinese but these are in vain, and so to display their power the Chinese EMP the US and then set up strategic bases in Alaska and Texas (where the oil fields are) this is not really for supply but just to cut off any supplies the National Guard would need if they were to launch any sort of counter invasion. American militia groups are abound and still have many weapons either shipped over from black market dealers from Europe and also the huge stockpiles manufactured. But these militia are no better than the Chinese soldiers which occasionally make landfall to cull them, its just that they claim to fight for freedom. The cities are practically empty due to the mass starvations which followed after the EMP.

Bleak huh?
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lamna
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I've never heard anyone claim that India's going to run into trouble because of "female abortions" whatever that means.
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China and India resulting in a full on war as the huge Indian populations begin to settle in Chinese territory.

That won't happen, China's almost full already. The Indian border with China is the Himalayas, which are hard to transport anything through. And once you get though you're on the Tibetan Plateau, hardly a land of milk and honey.

Plus that feels really unlikely. Imagine if Morocco and Spain went to war and the Spanish start dumping huge numbers of people into the Rif.

There have also been very few wars of conquest since WWII, most cases I can think of the aggressor has claimed that the territory they are after ought to be theirs, not that they just want it.
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dialforthedevil
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Hmm perhaps, although tensions on the borders still happen. I reckon the war would result more in gunboat diplomacy gone too far rather than anything else.
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