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Flesh out my fantasy world.
Topic Started: Sep 11 2012, 02:56 PM (3,556 Views)
lamna
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After I ran way crying trying to start my own RP in the same vein as the Cultural Evolution game I decided to get back to it with a fantastic piece. I want to include a variety of species and cultures and both keep it simple and not clichéd.

Here is the map.
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Currently the big Northernmost island is inhabited by Dwarves, who rule, the Finns, who enforce that rule and the Saami, who get seven shades of shit kicked out of them whenever they complain about being at the bottom of the pile.

The big green island is inhabited by Elves. I'm not sure what to do with them, arrogant racists and arrogant perfect hippies have been done. I'll probably make them live only 200 or so years, and incapable of hybridizing with humans, or at least not producing very many fertile hybrids.

The yellow islands are inhabited by Dragons, who are intelligent but rather possessive and straight forward, which can make them seem child-like. They also live with humans and act as their nobility, defending them in exchange for the humans doing all the things dragons can't. It's got a reputation as a place the oppressed can flee if they are desperate and willing to work. The dragon's don't care about your ideology or religion as long as they get their sheep tithe.

On the "mainland" are the Human kingdoms. Once most of the island was united under an empire, the empire started to crumble under barbarian attacks, poor harvests, a bad economy and religious strife. The last Emperor decided that to turn things around he would conquer the dragon kingdom, plunder their gold and then use the dragons as soldiers to help restore his empire. The expedition was destroyed and the capital was razed. With no emperor, no capital and hardly any army left the empire collapsed in less than a decade.

One province did manage to survive, mostly thanks to the corrupt governor having skimmed enough money to pay the local barbarians to fight for him rather than sack the place, and when the dust settled he found himself the most powerful and wealthy man left standing so just declared himself Emperor. That's the purple nation.
Edited by lamna, Sep 18 2012, 12:43 PM.
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Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna?
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colddigger
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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What is the yellow islands?
Oh Fine.

Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP??

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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

If you want my honest opinion, the only reason I would read it if it was an actual book would be that you wrote it. If this was some random book on a shelf somewhere, all I would read of it would be the blurb on the back. Then I would out it down and look for something else.

Why? Because it seems cliche, despite your best efforts. It seems to me like it's a carbon copy of every high fantasy story on the market: monarchical government, medieval technology, and the same overused fantasy races: elves, dwarves, and dragons.

Now, I can deal with medieval technology and a monarchical government. Otherwise, I would have hated "Game of Thrones." But wh
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lamna
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Quote:
 
What is the yellow islands?
Dragons, and the people who serve them.
Quote:
 
Why? Because it seems cliche, despite your best efforts. It seems to me like it's a carbon copy of every high fantasy story on the market: monarchical government, medieval technology, and the same overused fantasy races: elves, dwarves, and dragons.
Any suggestions? I don't see any alternative to monarchism, though their can be variety.

I think I've decided that the Humans will similar to the "Barbarians" who took over after the fall of the Roman empire. The Northernmost will be similar to the Saxons or possibly Norse, though fantastic Vikings have been done again and again. South of them will be the Franks, the Ostrogoths, the Byzantines and Lombard remnants who withdrew to the mountains to rule over the wildmen. Not sure about who should go in the uttermost south. Visagoths, Celtiberians, Moors, Basques, Lusitanians. Perhaps a mix.
Edited by lamna, Sep 12 2012, 01:22 AM.
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bloom_boi
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What The?
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Read the Planetary Construction Guide by Mark Rosenfelder. Although you may get bad vibes from him, I find him to be quite an amazing fantasy conworlder. He tells not only how to story tell but also how to avoid the cliché of a medieval age with dragon, dwarves, elves ect. It is very interesting and he covers practically all imaginable areas of creating a fantasy world. Also, be patient and committed. Or you will get no where.

EDIT: remember that the world is not just that section of the map and there is land beyond that (I assume)
Edited by bloom_boi, Sep 12 2012, 08:28 AM.
"You shall perish, whatever you do! If you are taken with arms in your hands, death! If you beg for mercy, death! Whichever way you turn, right, left, back, forward, up, down, death! You are not merely outside the law, you are outside humanity. Neither age nor sex shall save you and yours. You shall die, but first you shall taste the agony of your wife, your sister, your sons and daughters, even those in the cradle! Before your eyes the wounded man shall be taken out of the ambulance and hacked with bayonets or knocked down with the butt end of a rifle. He shall be dragged living by his broken leg or bleeding arm and flung like a suffering, groaning bundle of refuse into the gutter. Death! Death! Death!"



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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

And of course, it posted without finishing the post.

Frankly, the only thing that is cliche is the combination of the three elements: monarchy, medieval tech, and the same overused fantasy races.

Monarchy I can understand. I mean, it was the dominant form of government for much if human history (if you think of it as one ruler, chosen by birthright, holding absolute power).

Frankly, what I think you should change is the technology level or the creatures. Why everyone insists on going medieval, I don't know.

Why not shake things up? Why not use Elizabethan technology? Why not model your armies on those used by the Spanish conquistadors? Why not shake things up a tad? As for fantasy races, do something no one has done before (or at least something that's not common). For example, don't make your dwarves miners. My suggestion would be to make them slaves of elves, who I would model after the KKK or some other racist group (yes, racist elves have been done. But they're such a good concept).
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TAXESbutNano
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I'm going back to basics.
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Well... You could base dragons on Dwarf Fortress dwarves. Work best with a chemical that other races work worse with, enjoy mineral wealth, farm underground, and have an extreme fascination with things that seem excessively complicated but work.
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lamna
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Quote:
 
EDIT: remember that the world is not just that section of the map and there is land beyond that (I assume)
No, this is for a game. That's it unless I need something extra.
Quote:
 
Why not shake things up? Why not use Elizabethan technology? Why not model your armies on those used by the Spanish conquistadors? Why not shake things up a tad? As for fantasy races, do something no one has done before (or at least something that's not common). For example, don't make your dwarves miners. My suggestion would be to make them slaves of elves, who I would model after the KKK or some other racist group (yes, racist elves have been done. But they're such a good concept).
Because I'm not a fan of gunpowder in warfare before it is mature. During the Tudor and Stuart eras gunpowder was essential and yet unreliable.

Also basing an entire culture and people on a small group of crazy racists seems unrealistic. Even at their height the KKK were still a small organisation. The Dwarves live in the North with the Finns and the Saami, where they have an Turkish/Kurdish/Armenian dynamic.

The technology, along with the whole setting is going to be Dark/Heroic Age rather than medieval.
Quote:
 
Well... You could base dragons on Dwarf Fortress dwarves. Work best with a chemical that other races work worse with, enjoy mineral wealth, farm underground, and have an extreme fascination with things that seem excessively complicated but work.
I have the dragons pretty well worked out. Intelligent but fairly naive, possessive and somewhat lazy.
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dialforthedevil
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Im kinda with Canis on this one. My fantasy world Omnia Sanatem is essentially a Victorian/Roman world but with modern technology (note not steampunk). Have to say though Racist Nazi elves are great, I have them. They make for good antagonists but with an easy layer of complexity. Why not try an ancient chinese spin? It would be amazing to see that? Or have the peoples have a culture similar to the Mughals?
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bloom_boi
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God damn it Lamna, now I want to create my own fantasy world. With....with....WITH MAGIK
"You shall perish, whatever you do! If you are taken with arms in your hands, death! If you beg for mercy, death! Whichever way you turn, right, left, back, forward, up, down, death! You are not merely outside the law, you are outside humanity. Neither age nor sex shall save you and yours. You shall die, but first you shall taste the agony of your wife, your sister, your sons and daughters, even those in the cradle! Before your eyes the wounded man shall be taken out of the ambulance and hacked with bayonets or knocked down with the butt end of a rifle. He shall be dragged living by his broken leg or bleeding arm and flung like a suffering, groaning bundle of refuse into the gutter. Death! Death! Death!"



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lamna
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I think I'll go with isolationist republican elves, combined with Chinese style arrogance.
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Heck, I'm planning my own fantasy world, based on Roman society with ancient Roman, Chinese, and Indian technology.

There will be four races, though I am considering adding a fifth (though it's doubtful, so I won't mention them).

The first race is humans, which I mentioned have a Roman Republic-type society (though the empire is headed by a Prime Citizen, chosen by the Senate in a manner similar to the Prime Minister in English politics).

The second are the Parrots, who are quite similar to our African grey parrots, except that they can speak. Parrots are held up as equals by the Humans. A Parrot and Human family will often share the same house, with the head of the Parrot family acting as a tutor for the Human children (much like Greek slaves).

The third are the Anubans, based on the dog-headed Egyptian God Anubis. They are largely tribal, existing in poorly-organized city-states. The society is run by a queen (yes, it's matriarchal). Males do not hold positions of power, except in the military. Like male elephants, male Anubans Will go into musth, becoming more and more animalistic, violent, and cannibalistic. There appearance even changes, looking like the werewolves from "Harry Potter." To the Humans, they are viewed as excellent soldiers, mostly for use as fodder to be killed off early in battle. Males in musth are often used as creatures to be fought in the arena, either by Humans gladiators (who vokunteer), Anuban slaves, and the next race.

Last and certainly not least are the Centaurs. Centaur society and technology is quite similar to the Mongols. They are quite skilled with a bow and arrow and are extremely nomadic. They are great astronomers and horses play a major part in their religion. In fact, you can almost think of them as the Dothraki, except that the horse is a part of their body. To the Humans, they are the ultimate slaves, used as farm workers and fighters in a bizarre hybrid of gladiator fights and chariot races.

Figured I would just share my idea, since I figured a lot of people would.

Oh, and if it's for a game lamna, it's perfectly fine. It's not too cliche for a game (yes, I do hold games to a different, often lower, standard than I hold books or films).
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bloom_boi
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The Dorathaki where boderline racist, but whatever.
How do you plan on designing centaurs, I had always dismissed them in an attempt to remain realistic.
"You shall perish, whatever you do! If you are taken with arms in your hands, death! If you beg for mercy, death! Whichever way you turn, right, left, back, forward, up, down, death! You are not merely outside the law, you are outside humanity. Neither age nor sex shall save you and yours. You shall die, but first you shall taste the agony of your wife, your sister, your sons and daughters, even those in the cradle! Before your eyes the wounded man shall be taken out of the ambulance and hacked with bayonets or knocked down with the butt end of a rifle. He shall be dragged living by his broken leg or bleeding arm and flung like a suffering, groaning bundle of refuse into the gutter. Death! Death! Death!"



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Ànraich
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I've been working on my own fantasy world lately. I blended it with alternate history so I could avoid cliches in both genres for any works I make involving it. So I'll try to help you out with yours based on what I've learned.

First of all, if you want to avoid cliches then you need to avoid cliches: dwarves, elves, dragons, etc. Just use humans, and maybe add one or two other intelligent races if you can think of good, original ones. For instance in my fantasy world, when the Egyptians needed labor to build their pyramids they used magic to make large numbers of baboons into semi-intelligent slaves. Over time their intelligence continued to increase due to continued exposure to magical energies, and eventually the baboons became a sapient race in their own right (this has happened a few times in my world, most other times naturally: intelligent bandar-logs living in the ruins of Harappa in India; the wise macaques that spend most of their lives bathing in the magic-infused hot springs of Japan; and of course humans as well).

You may still be able to have some mythical creatures without it being cliche. For instance the dwarves could just a population of humans that all suffer from dwarfism for some reason (probably some curse or something, just make it up as you go). You could also just put dwarves and elves and such in anyways but develop them yourself to avoid making them too cliche. Why do elves have to be either arrogant hippies or arrogant racists? For that matter, why do all the elves have to be alike? Can't the elves have just as much cultural and ideological diversity as humans do? Maybe the elves are grandiose but technologically primitive, like the pre-Columbian Native Americans. One thing I've always hated about elves and dwarves is that they always live in a forest and mountains respectively. Why can't the elves be desert nomads? Why can't the dwarves inhabit the fertile river valley between the mountains? You might try less conventional ideas for races as well. This is a fantasy world, who is to say that mighty kingdoms can only be upon the land? Why can't there be aquatic races that have hidden states and cities in the mysterious deeps?

The biggest thing about a fantasy world is, of course, the magic. It will shape your world far more than anything else, because it affects everything by its very nature. It will affect historical events, technological development, and political ideologies. I suggest making the magic more subtle than in-your-face Discworld style, it adds more realism and gives you a better framework for continuity. The medieval setting has been raised as a concern; why does it have to be medieval? There are plenty of fantasy stories that take place in many kinds of technological settings. Why not try a fantasy world at Enlightenment-level technology? Or during the beginning of their Industrial Revolution?

Also governments; even in a medieval setting you don't have to have nothing but monarchies (as fond of them as you are). You could have republics, as having magic will mean that the average person has the chance to gain incredible power. Having a society of wizards that can destroy your nobility with little effort really puts a hamper on the whole "divine right to rule" thing. Speaking of which, you could have a magocracy ruled by the magic-wielding elite, or an elected archmage/archwizard/archwhatever working like a papacy.

The best advice I can give is get created; it's a world of magic! The possibilities are endless (unless you state otherwise)!
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Watcher: Yep. The Dothraki were racist. Still, I absolutely loved reading about them in chapters focused on Daenerys. As for the Centaurs themselves, they are going to be hexapedal. They are going to be like more animalistic Centaurs, covered with fur and with a more horse-like face (though they do have canines, so they are omnivorous).

I somewhat agree with Parasky on the subject of magic, though I don't think it's all that necessary. Magic is not at all prolific in my fantasy world. I prefer to have the characters rely on their own wits and strength to get them through situations.
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