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| List dystopian features of an Axis victorious world; Grosser the better | |
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| Topic Started: May 26 2012, 12:23 AM (1,781 Views) | |
| Yorick | May 26 2012, 12:23 AM Post #1 |
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I'm working on a story set in an alternate present where the Axis powers won WWII. I was inspired by the TV series "Fringe" and, later, the recent novel by Stephen King, "11/22/63." Like "The Man in the High Castle"-a novel I did not read-by Philip K. Dick, the attempted assassination of FDR is successful in this timeline and this leads to a chain of events that leads to a loss for the allies. Unlike in "High Castle," America isn't conquered. But things aren't pretty. Economic, technological and social progress is decades behind and social and economic mobility is practically nonexistent. I have so far: -Alaska is a sovereign nation, officially known as the Republic of Alaska, where Slavic refugees have found a semblance of sanctuary against Nazi extermination pogroms -Hawaii is under imperial Japanese domination as is Australia and New Zealand and just about the entire Pacific and southeastern Asia -Several northern and eastern counties in Maine are now part of Canada -Royal siblings, Elizabeth and Margaret, managed to escape to Canada during the German invasion of Britain but their parents weren't so lucky; their mother was raped to death as their father watched and he was then later brutally tortured and executed -Skinheads are a common sight in many cities in the U.S. and segregation is still a bitter reality throughout the South -For several decades now, the southern border states are in continuous warfare with German-backed Mexico trying to reclaim land taken by the U.S. back in the Mexican-American war -The atomic bomb was never invented due to short-sighted Nazi exterminations of Jewish and Slavic scientists but allies-turned-rivals, Germany and Japan, race to unlock the secrets of the atom in present day -The Nazi conquest of the Middle East led to America finding alternative means of energy and turned its sights on renewable power; efficient solar panels and tidal and wind turbines power American cities and transportation -The Hindenburg disaster never happened Go nuts. I love Paul Verhoeven flicks because speculates the most outrageous and daring things. The amusing and innovative details in "Robocop" and "Total Recall" and "Starship Troopers" and "Hollow Man" makes his films so enjoyable and memorable. That's what I'm going for here. Edited by Yorick, May 30 2012, 10:41 PM.
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"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
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| lamna | May 26 2012, 04:44 AM Post #2 |
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No, that wouldn't have happened. The Royal Houses that didn't escape were left alone by the Nazis. Perhaps they would be executed, but chances are they would just be locked up. The Nazis tended to treat their Western foes with more respect. Japan lost the war when they started it, they simply did not have the industrial capacity or resources to win. They could have invaded Hawaii or Australia...just. But they were pretty much at their limit. Unless when Isoroku Yamamoto was assassinated he woke up back in 1905 as a young man and used his foreknowledge to rapidly advance Japan's technology and prevent Tojo's lot from taking over, then they won't be winning. |
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| dialforthedevil | May 26 2012, 05:18 AM Post #3 |
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Frumentarii Administrator
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Im not sure about the technologically backwards world? Technology progresses far mroe quickly during war times, so if the war was extended like it is in this then why would they be backwards? Yeah I don't think they would have raped the royal family, if your occupying a nation you don't do that unless you want the whole populace to rise up and slaughter you. I don't think you understand what the royal family means to a lot of people, and the Nazis understood that it would be a baddddd idea. Japan certainly did not have the manpower to occupy Australia and New Zealand, and why would they? |
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| lamna | May 26 2012, 09:02 AM Post #4 |
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It would probably be a bit more backwards because, despite their reputation, the Nazis were pretty bad at science. Perhaps the most famous Nazi "scientist", Josef Mengele, did almost nothing of scientific value. All his experiments were just him indulging his sadistic curiosity. The Nazis were limited, what the party said, was truth, therefore you don't need to look for it, and should just focus on supporting it. The Nazis were also just a touch anti-technology. They dreamed of a return to a Agrarian Aryan way of life, lush green fields, blonde haired maidens and vast expanses of wilderness with all those filthy slavs cleared away to make room for Heck Cattle and wolves.
The Japanese could probably have caused quite a bit of mischief in Australia, and they were motivated to do so. Australia was an important staging post. But with the war in China they couldn't spare the men to subjugat the whole place. The Nazis also don't need to conquer the middle east, just disrupt it. Nobody there was very keen on the British back then. Edited by lamna, May 26 2012, 09:02 AM.
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| Spugpow | May 26 2012, 10:15 PM Post #5 |
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Prime Specimen
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That's a damn cool video Lamna.
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| seascorpion | May 26 2012, 10:22 PM Post #6 |
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Why Can't I Hold All These Mongols?
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A more realistic 'Axis victory' Idea I had involved Nazi Germany not invading Poland in 1939. Hence when the USSR invades Finland, the UK (w/ commonwealth), Sweden, Norway and maybe even the US intervene and fight a war against the Soviet union. Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, as well as Francoist Spain give support for the allies, possibly even sending troops to fight the USSR. Fascism gains credibility in the UK and Commonwealth, I don't know enough about the internal affairs of the UK at that time (at least compared to dial or lamna) to say how fascism could effectively come into power in the UK, but if the UK became Fascist then Australia and New Zealand would probably follow it's example, there was already a sizeable fascist/hardline monarchist movement in Australia at that time. The point is, commonwealth nations become fascist, world war 2 fighting the USSR. Nazi Germany annexes poland after the war. I am personally unsure about Japan or France and the USA, I don't think the USA would become fascist, France, maybe. I think Japan may join the war on the side of nazi Germany and a fascist Commonwealth against the USSR, but lamna would know more about this then I would. |
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| dialforthedevil | May 28 2012, 08:24 AM Post #7 |
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So essentially a world where appeasement worked? Not sure about Britain becoming fascist, Oswald Mosley was just a joke in England. Nobody took him seriously. British politics is always very tame, our rightwing is nothing like america's or Oz, our left wing would appear to be very similar to our right. US involvement would depend on who is in power? |
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| lamna | May 28 2012, 12:57 PM Post #8 |
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Despite what Turtledove seems to think, Fascism was never very strong here. Oh and another nasty aspect to a Axis victory would be India. Almost certainly it would be a bloodbath with the Hindus and Muslims trying to kill each other. The Japanese were more invested in the Hindus, though their were Indians in the SS. So you might end up with the Nazis supporting the Muslims and the Japanese supporting the Hindus. Oh and remember, Persians and Indians are Aryans. |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| Space Gorilla | May 28 2012, 03:16 PM Post #9 |
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Primate Thinker
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Actually, they seem to have had a 'breeding program' centered in the Bavarian region. There were some cultist families who groomed kids who would excel in a certain scientific discipline, whether its mathematics, physics, mechanics, medicine, psychology, etc. Conspiracy theorists seem to connect these with what is commonly known as the Illuminati (and I wouldn't be surprised at this connection either, as the Illuminati were also scientists, but prosecuted by the Church). Anyway, there's enough documentation showing that they had researched human psychology, biology and physics in particular. Mental programming, effects on visual encoding stimuli, anti-gravity etc. And during this time, the first documented projects involving flying saucers emerge. The prototype of which, is called "Bell" project (the craft was Bell-shaped). Now I don't wonder a lot why some people who have contacted the pilots of the flying saucers, describe them as tall, Caucasian, blue eyed, blonde humans. Makes more sense.
I think you seriously underestimate Slavic people. We had survived countless wars and turmoils. 500 years of Ottoman Occupation, etc. present-day pressure from entire Europe and USA in regards to politics, pressuring us to change our identity, etc., and we still show them the middle finger, even though we are only 1.5 million people here. There is no way we (or any other Slavic country) would run away as refugees on a remote cold place to save our lives. We would fight to the death. |
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| Canis Lupis | May 28 2012, 11:25 PM Post #10 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Besides Yorick, Alaska became a U.S. territory in the mid-to-late nineteenth century. Why would we allow it to become it's own nation? |
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| Yorick | May 29 2012, 10:37 PM Post #11 |
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Did you really think I didn't already know that?! The refugee population and American sympathizers voted to leave the U.S. just as some counties in Maine voted to become part of Canada. Resistance was fought and lost in the courtrooms and not on a battlefield. |
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"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
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| Canis Lupis | May 29 2012, 10:52 PM Post #12 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Why would American sympathizers vote to secede from the Union (or whatever it is when territories become their own sovereign nations)? If anything, American sympathizers would want to stay a part of the United States. Besides, it would be advantageous to stay a part of America (assuming, of course, that America in this timeline is still a strong military power. I don't know. I'm kind of thinking "Fatherland" when I'm thinking about this. Basically, Nazi Germany wins and enters into a Cold War with America (rather than the Soviet Union against America)). I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence with that comment. I was just trying to figure out why Alaska would form its own nation where it would be more vulnerable to Nazi and Japanese attack. I mean, as far as I understand, that's part of the reason Texas joined the Union after the Texas War for Independence: they wanted American military protection from Mexico. Heck, they were willing to become a part of Britain if America didn't take them in (so pretty much, these Texans were just looking for military protection). So, like I said, it would probably be more advantageous for Alaska to remain a part of the U.S. rather than become its own nation. If they were their own nation, they'd have to form their own military from pretty-much nothing. Thus they wouldn't fare well against potential Japanese invasion (since I doubt the Nazis would look seriously toward Alaska as a territory). However, if Alaska remained a part of the U.S., they would gain protection through the use of an experienced, hardened military. Just because the U.S. may have lost WW2 doesn't mean it is a terrible military; Britain resoundingly lost the American Revolutionary War against a far inferior military (granted though, America needed France to succeed. Without France, we'd be playing "God Save the Queen" at our baseball games). |
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| seascorpion | May 30 2012, 06:52 AM Post #13 |
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Why Can't I Hold All These Mongols?
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The American Revolution doesn't coincide well as a comparison for World War 2. As a comparison for Australian rebellions (which were modeled after it) or as a comparison for any scenario where insurgent forces attempt to defeat a vastly superior military power? yes. But I wouldn't use it as a comparison for an extremely high intensity conventional war where major military powers effectively fought head on with each other like world war 2. that's not to say that insurgencies didn't play major roles, but they weren't as key. Britain didn't "resoundingly lose", they made major victories and had major advantages over the revolutionaries. If it wasn't for French intervention the American revolution would have gone the same way as the Eureka stockade and other multiple uprisings and rebellions (whether highly organised or spontaneous riots) in Australia, it would have been crushed. As for Alaska leaving the union. I don't see it, Is there really a reason why Alaska would HAVE to leave the USA? a large slavic ethnic minority isn't an urgent reason. |
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| lamna | May 30 2012, 06:22 PM Post #14 |
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Well for a long time Alaska was seen as fairly worthless, that's why the Russians sold it. I think it was only after oil was found America got really interested. |
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| Yorick | May 30 2012, 10:40 PM Post #15 |
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Then don't point out the obvious. Anyway, I just thought the idea of a new nation made up of Slavic refugees sounded cool. Also, it makes America look weaker having only 48 states with many of those either trying to secede to Canada or eaten by Mexico.
I always did find it funny how George Washington lost more battles then he won but managed to avoid any total, crushing defeats so the war simply became too militarily and politically and economically expensive to win. Of course, help from France, Spain and the Dutch Republic is not to be taken lightly. It's good to be good, better to be lucky and best to be both.
Yup. Seward's Folly and all. And gold too. Edited by Yorick, May 30 2012, 10:40 PM.
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"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
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