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Silly Bioshock fans
Topic Started: Mar 27 2012, 06:30 PM (710 Views)
Carlos
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It appears most Bioshock fans preffer the selfish-to-the-point-of-nausea villain to the altruistic in terms of moral value.

I get that it's because he's a capitalist and the fans are american, but honestly, if you were given a choice to be locked beneath the sea with a person who outright forbids altruistic behaviour and a person who encourages it, it'd be kind of stupid to go with the guy who gets butthurt if someone even shows empathy.

Don't get me wrong, Sofia is a monster, but at least she's a monster least likely to piss her pants in rage if someone demonstrates sympathy for someone else.
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colddigger
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I don't.... even understand.... is there an article?
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Carlos
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Well, Bioshock has tons of articles, but you can see the TV Tropes page or the Bioshock wikia.
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dialforthedevil
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Bioshock is brilliant, Andrew Ryan's Utopia is wonderful ;) ! It would be amazing to see what it looked like in its glory days. Have you seen Columbia? From Bioshock Infinite?
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lamna
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What's wrong with bad villains. They are villain, they are supposed to be bad!
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Carlos
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Yes, I've seen BioshockInfinite. I love the Songbird.

The problem is not that they're supposed to be evil, because they are. It's that somehow the most inhumane villain is considered more sympathetic.
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colddigger
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Would that be a case of everything being grey?
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Carlos
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Well, the main antagonists ultimately border on well-intentioned extremism, but I wouldn't call this a case of "gray and grey morality", because both Ryan and Sofia are unambiguously abhorrent. It's just that the latter has goals that are usually considered more morally decent than the former*, yet somehow is considered less sympathetic.

* To clarify, Andrew is Ayn Rand, while Sofia is pastiche of communists and religious leaders. The former wants a sociopathic meritocracy, while the latter wants altruism to the point that individuality is lost.
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http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

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lamna
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And why is one worse than the other?
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Carlos
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Well, think about it this way. Would you rather be doomed to poverty and being enslaved by the rich, or be genetically altered to loose your free will?
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http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

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Russwallac
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They both sound pretty crappy. We sympathize with people who have understandable reasons for what they do, even if what they do is evil.
"We've started a cult about a guy's liver, of course we're going to demand that you give us an incredibly scientific zombie apocalypse." -Nanotyranus

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lamna
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Definitely enslaved by the rich. I'm not trying to be contrarian, that sounds the better option. With that, there is the chance of rebellion, or of the rich changing their ways or some kind of change.

Without free will, you're not really yourself anymore. You're not really human.
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Carlos
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The problem is, there's no way to revolt. Rapture's society revolves around lack of empathy; all altruism is punished by death. There's no conceivable way to form rebellions.
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http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

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colddigger
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Sure there is, rebellion is punishable by death, but then you simply rebel in such a manner that the society breaks down.
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Carlos
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But a successful rebellion requires collaboration, and if everyone is conditioned to not have altruism, there is simply no way of successfully overthrowing the regime.

Sofia managed to ascend thanks to her extremely altruistic group, but had to wait until things got too chaotic and the protagonist destroyed Ryan.
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

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