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| Spaying/Neutering pets/animals/organisms; Continued from offtopic in "What would happen to our pets after Humans die out?" | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 21 2012, 05:39 PM (521 Views) | |
| T.Neo | Jan 21 2012, 05:39 PM Post #1 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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EDIT: This thread was created as an offspring of the offtopic discussion in the "What would happen to our pets after Humans die out". The following in this post is a semi-rant from that thread, feel free to ignore it and discuss the issue at leisure.
What from here to Mu Arae am I supposed to "get off"?
Er, firstly, I'm not looking for something or someone to blame. Secondly, don't tell me I'm being "overly emotional" about anything. It is uncalled for. What am I supposed to do? Not adversely react to the fact that my dog is dead? Change my last name to Spock, lest I be "overly emotional"?
Of course the sex organs didn't cause the cancer; it could have been a combination of genetic, environmental and hormonal factors. However, the scientific data on the matter exists. From this page;
So it is not "ah, but I blame the reproductive organs, reproductive organs are evil, remove them!!!", there is a marked benefit in the reduction of the incidence of mammary tumors from spaying.
Do you have any veterinary experience of any kind behind that statement? Even cursory research on the internet counts. The vet we took her to removed some of the tumors, but missed smaller ones, that she didn't take out. She never (to my memory) advocated any medical (i.e. chemotherapy) treatment or special diet/excersise plan.
Firstly, constantly saying "no, but you're wrong!!!" doesn't make you right. Secondly, I find it a bit odd that you argue by "you can't speak to an animal, therefore you don't know what they want" yet assign desires and worries to them yourself anyway. It's kind of like saying "you don't know the full picture, therefore I'm right!". Thirdly, being a linguist doesn't magically qualify you in regards to animal languages. And "animal languages" (in the same term as human language) do not exist, only animal communication. You don't get the same dynamics in animal communication as you do in human language. Nor do discoveries in animal language invalidate everything I say.
But you're not really putting yourself in the animal's shoes. You're putting the animal in your shoes first. Edited by T.Neo, Jan 22 2012, 04:50 AM.
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| lamna | Jan 21 2012, 06:37 PM Post #2 |
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Good grief. I need a holiday from here. Sorry about your dog mate. |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| Fireplume | Jan 21 2012, 06:57 PM Post #3 |
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Southern Speckled Spearrunner
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I'd only ever own a non-neutered/spayed animal if I planned to breed it, or it was too difficult/expensive to do it. Overall, it improves an animal's health and temper. |
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| Ook | Jan 21 2012, 07:00 PM Post #4 |
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not a Transhuman
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My cats were neutered, as I din't wanted smell tomcat urine all over house or drown in flood of kittens |
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| Kamidio | Jan 21 2012, 09:15 PM Post #5 |
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The Game Master of the SSU:NC
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I think that if you support those bouquet thingies, then you support neutering. So if you support doing it to plants, you have to support doing it to animals. |
SSU:NC - Finding a new home. Quotes WAA
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| Temporary | Jan 21 2012, 11:54 PM Post #6 |
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Transhuman
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Inside animals, spay/neuter away, outside it's a matter of choice. The truth of the matter is this. The pet belongs to the owner, the owner is the animal's stewart. As their owner we do take on a responsibility to the animals' well-being. Note the plural. Not only does this involve you're pet's personal well-being but it's offspring as well. If the cat's inside, (I have much more experience with cats then dogs, since I mostly end up with male dogs and female cats, and queens lead to catsplosions) then I get them fixed. They won't be meeting another cat, so going into heat won't do any good and just cause them a ton of discomfort. Besides, even if they could meet another cat, the inside of the house is just too small for kittens who need room to play and grow. Someone else with a bigger house, they might be able to do it, but it's not an option here. Outside, I don't. But that's out of pragmatism. The cats scare off most vermin, they get along fine for the most part, they seem pretty happy. But I live in a rural part of the state, they have more space then they could want. If I lived somewhere else my decision would be different. I guess what I'm saying is, we know better then they do. We have the responsbility to make the decision. (On another note, T. Neo, can you change you're opening post a little? Just to open people up to the question? People who just want to join into this conversation aren't going to hunt down the original conversation...so... yeah. And it is a tragedy, cancer sucks, human or animal) |
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| Kamidio | Jan 22 2012, 12:01 AM Post #7 |
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The Game Master of the SSU:NC
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I agree completely.
Edited by Kamidio, Jan 22 2012, 12:04 AM.
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SSU:NC - Finding a new home. Quotes WAA
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| Zoroaster | Jan 22 2012, 02:15 AM Post #8 |
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Fecund Fundiment
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I don't know what happens in other parts of the world, but animal shelters and the RSPCA here in Australia will NOT release an abandoned animal into the custody of its adopters UNTIL it has been spayed. I've had two tomcats and one bitch dog from animal shelters. The operation to spay them is part of the cost of buying the animal from them. The premier animal welfare organisation in Australia is the RSPCA (and DEFINITELY not fucking PETA) - they are a respected and well established body. Animals that cannot be placed or adopted are euthanised. This is not their goal, but what are they going to do? Abandoned and stray animals in suburbia is a constant problem. So their goal being "Prevention of Cruelty to Animals" is not being achieved if they spay all the animals they adopt out? I think the benefit of having neutered animals FAR outweighs the serious issue of neglected and stray animals. When my mum was a girl, living on a farm, the only practise that was occasionally adopted was to castrate male animals - but it was never practised - veterinary procedures were out of the question! My mum lost count of the number of times she had to drown kittens and puppies! She hated it - but it was better than having plagues of cats and dogs all over the place! Imagine the impact on the nearby bush with stray cats turning feral etc! The farm was mostly a chicken farm, the cats were there to keep rodents in check. This is a highly emotional debate, but in this country domestic animals do a huge amount of damage to wildlife, and even to sheep (domestic dogs savaging sheep). |
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The Speccer Formerly Known As Magoo... My exobio project(s) : Hormizd / Zarathustra ![]() | |
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| Kamidio | Jan 22 2012, 04:01 AM Post #9 |
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The Game Master of the SSU:NC
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Problems with large placental mammals? Here's a good solution. 1: Open a farm. 2: Fill farm with komodo dragons. 3: Breed the dragons, selecting for the traits of big, strong, highly venomous, ravenous appetite, taste for feral placentals, and pleasant temperament towards humans. 4: Release these Neomegalania upon area where feral placentals gather. |
SSU:NC - Finding a new home. Quotes WAA
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| Holben | Jan 22 2012, 05:34 AM Post #10 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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I felt really bad about getting my dog spayed, but I was convinced to. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| dialforthedevil | Jan 22 2012, 05:49 AM Post #11 |
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Frumentarii Administrator
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Neither of my dogs are speyed, but thats because we hope to breed them and sell off the pups, their breed apparently is worth a fourtune (Golden Doodle, according to my mum). In the UK at one point we were swamped with cats so the government tried to sterilize as many cats as possible, nowadays its almost impossible where I live to buy kittens or even adopt them. |
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| seascorpion | Jan 22 2012, 06:08 AM Post #12 |
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Why Can't I Hold All These Mongols?
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I believe that it's necessary, especially in Australia. If it goes feral than it won't be able to breed. Though in other parts of the world I understand that it isn't a concern. |
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| colddigger | Jan 23 2012, 02:02 PM Post #13 |
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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Wait... was my post deleted?? |
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| Ànraich | Jan 23 2012, 02:10 PM Post #14 |
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi
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This. A dog might be a living organism, but it's also property. And in order to maintain the property, it is necessary to take some precautions. What do you do if your dog runs off and impregnates another dog? Who will take care of the puppies? You? The other dog's owner? Just because they're pets doesn't mean they're not capable of acting like wild animals, a pregnant dog or cat or one with recently born offspring can be very dangerous. I know that from experience, I've been mauled by my own cat just for walking near where it had its kittens (by the way cats will tear your house the fuck up looking for a place to make a hidden little den for her litter). That being said I've had pets that have been neutered and that haven't been. Those that aren't neutered tend to be a little more rough and can be mean (but that's more dependent upon their personality). Not very safe for small children, especially if its a large dog like a great dane. They are more fun in my opinion though. The only pets I really like though are plants. You don't feed them, clean up after them, they don't get sick. all they need is water and light, and the only thing they produce is good old oxygen. And even though you can't neuter a plant (I suppose you could if you wanted to) it's okay; nobody is against plant abortion. I mean, who would be against agriculture? Oh and also: ![]() GET YOUR PETS SPAYED OR NEUTERED TODAY! |
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We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar. "The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming Tree That Owns Itself
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