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Ideas and Concepts.
Topic Started: Aug 17 2011, 03:32 PM (8,760 Views)
lamna
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We all have cool ideas for things we'd love to do or make, art, novels, films and so on. But unless you actually have something to show us such as concept art or a first draft I think you should discuss it here so we don't have dozens of topics of people talking about their cool ideas.
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Russwallac
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At this point, if you chucked a human into the wilderness, they'd probably have a life expectancty of, oh, about five minutes. :r

Okay, that was a joke. But "wild" humans probably lived about the same length as chimpanzees; at least if menopause is anything to go by.
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Thriving_Doc_Xenox
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Well, considering not all animals go through menopause, I'd say it might be a wee bit different. Only females bleed fro the loins. Unless they dump a female who has VERY sharp claws or other sharp objects, and a bad attitude. Trust me on this one. It's happened. ... <.< ... >.>
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Flisch
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T.Neo
Oct 10 2011, 01:05 PM
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Sexual organs however DO propagate the species. :T


Not if the organism they're attached to starves to death because it can't survive. ;)
But why would they not survive? Real butterflies do just fine without intelligence and even if we assume that they are a lot more complex, there are still solitary bird and bat species that might resemble their behaviour. And last time I checked birds and bats aren't on the brink of extinction.

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Imagine a species of butterflies with caterpillars that form groups for protection. The butterflies however don't live in a group and are loners. Now if the intelligence of both stages would increase the caterpillars would have a greater gain from the new intelligence as they can put it to a use to interact with each other. Since the adult butterfly rarely interacts with others of its own species except for mating which doesn't require a high level of intelligence, then the energy put into its brain is wasted. Evolution will favour those individuals (or populations) that have a high degree of teamwork in their larval stage but at the same time require less energy in their adult stage, especially since the larva now has to gather food for BOTH metamorphosis and a brain. Of course, if you were to design the creature, you'd probably choose the adult form for the intelligent stage (though that might be because we're just used to it), but evolution has to work with what it got. It certainly won't change or even reverse the behaviour of both stages to create a more "pleasing" sophont. As long as the energy budget is balanced I don't see any reason for this to be impossible.


I really don't know about the "highly active adult" breeding strategy, it sounds too specialist to me... maybe.

I don't think I'm following. Highly active? >_>

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The evolutionary history you've described here makes sense, but I don't see a particular reason why organisms would be forced down this particular route.

But we already have butterfly species where the caterpillars gather in huge swarms while the adults "do their thing".

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You could use the very same reasoning to say that humans shouldn't die.


And we don't, at least not after we outlive our reproductive usefulness (then again, depends on how long humans live in the wild).

Thing is that aging is a process that has been evolved, rather than something that evolution had to find a way around. From a purely biological standpoint organisms don't need to die, but they do to prevent stagnation of the genepool by going out of the way competeing with the next generation. These creatures do the same. Since they take up different ecological niches, the metamorphosis actually frees up space for the new larva generation.
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colddigger
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I had a thought about a Universe (or world) with entities (demideities) that radiate "aspects" or "realities" that when in contact the aspects react to create ways that the Universe functions, each entity would have its own radius that the aspect reaches out to, I was figuring that there would be one that gives off an aspect of "potential matter" with a radius of half the Universe and another that radiates an aspect of "conjured reality" which brings to existence any "potential" aspects with radii of various star sizes and planet sizes, they could form identical particles with a gradual decrease in radiation strength (frequency?) the further away from the entity you go, and some that have aspects of collapsing matter with a tiny radius and zips around diversifying the matter into different densities and properties, and still others that would continue to change the properties of the matter. There would be others that would affect other things like have shadow aspects which could create microworlds parallel to the "main" one or cancel out others aspects...
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

In a universe full of energy, it shoulda collapsed into matter long ago
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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colddigger
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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Na see, there isn't any energy, there's absolute nothingness without the aspects, it's not stone set science more a fantasy thing, which is allowed under the thread topic.
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T.Neo
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Quote:
 
But why would they not survive? Real butterflies do just fine without intelligence and even if we assume that they are a lot more complex, there are still solitary bird and bat species that might resemble their behaviour. And last time I checked birds and bats aren't on the brink of extinction.


Not my point at all. I'm saying, that survival strategies are important to organisms if they are to breed.

It isn't all about mating. If you can't stay healthy or not starve or get eaten, then your chance of breeding becomes very low indeed.

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I don't think I'm following. Highly active? >_>


In other words, a life-phase highly dedicated to mating.

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But we already have butterfly species where the caterpillars gather in huge swarms while the adults "do their thing".


Yes... but they're... they're... butterfly species...

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Thing is that aging is a process that has been evolved, rather than something that evolution had to find a way around. From a purely biological standpoint organisms don't need to die, but they do to prevent stagnation of the genepool by going out of the way competeing with the next generation. These creatures do the same. Since they take up different ecological niches, the metamorphosis actually frees up space for the new larva generation.


Yeah, that's the part that makes no sense to me whatsoever. Older (nonbreeding) humans aren't competition- they remain helpful to the family group.
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lamna
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These are just notes, but feel free to jump in if you have anything to say.

One large island with a Anglo-Saxon culture, with a few elements of Rome and the Normans, coupled with a obsession with longbows. About as large as Java/Britain.

Divided into five major parts
Royal Lands, small fertile plain in the south with the capital city, with scattered holdings throughout the Kingdom
Seal, a long narrow peninsula famed for it's fishing, precious and non-ferrous metals.
Badger, a patchwork of forest and farmland, renowned for it's tall, straight trees, and many bandits along it's poorly maintained roads
Eel, lots of flat land and swamps, similar to Norfolk, the Netherlands etc. Least loyal house to the crown.
Elk, Wide and wild lands in the north, full of forests, mountains but with few people. Contains several "princely states" that rebel every so often. Think Northumbria/Scotland. Also owns a city on the other continent

Other continent. About as big as Australia/Greenland
One Elk city surrounded by a small area of farmland.
South, Mountains and hills with 11 petty kingdoms and dozens of smaller tribes. Pale "celtic" people, often with red hair.
West, Thick forests inhabited by "First Nations". Three countries, most of the time.
North, open plains and farmland inhabited by centaurs. Unified into one, rather loose nation.
North-east coast, one rough city. Originally created as a port for mining operations by a Dwarf Kingdom and a Drow company. Ran into financial trouble and a lack of manpower before pirates and slavers took over. Hated by just about everyone on the continent, especially the Elk city and the centaurs. The land owned by the city is fairly barren for the most part, but rich in very high quality iron.
Edited by lamna, Oct 15 2011, 04:35 AM.
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Flisch
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T.Neo
Oct 12 2011, 03:39 PM
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But why would they not survive? Real butterflies do just fine without intelligence and even if we assume that they are a lot more complex, there are still solitary bird and bat species that might resemble their behaviour. And last time I checked birds and bats aren't on the brink of extinction.


Not my point at all. I'm saying, that survival strategies are important to organisms if they are to breed.
So you're saying all animals that live solitary or aren't as intelligent as humans don't survive?

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It isn't all about mating. If you can't stay healthy or not starve or get eaten, then your chance of breeding becomes very low indeed.

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I don't think I'm following. Highly active? >_>


In other words, a life-phase highly dedicated to mating.

Well, it's just as highly dedicated to reproduction as any other animal that isn't a rabbit.


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But we already have butterfly species where the caterpillars gather in huge swarms while the adults "do their thing".


Yes... but they're... they're... butterfly species...

And? I don't see why more sophisticated animals (compare mammals and birds) can't have a similar biological setup.

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Thing is that aging is a process that has been evolved, rather than something that evolution had to find a way around. From a purely biological standpoint organisms don't need to die, but they do to prevent stagnation of the genepool by going out of the way competeing with the next generation. These creatures do the same. Since they take up different ecological niches, the metamorphosis actually frees up space for the new larva generation.


Yeah, that's the part that makes no sense to me whatsoever. Older (nonbreeding) humans aren't competition- they remain helpful to the family group.

That reasoning is inversed. They are helpful to the family group, because they're already around. Every individual in the group, aside from newborn do something for the group. Because if they didn't, it'd be a waste of resources.* Old people are too old to reliably produce offspring and thus they help the group otherwise by gathering food, raising the children etc.

The thing is, they are helpful because they're around anyway, before they die. Dieing of old age is a part of all complex life as a means to make the gene pool shift and prevent stagnation. Again, going by your logic, it would make more evolutionary sense for old people not to die of old age because they're helpful for the community. But they do, to make room for the next generation.

*It'd be a waste of resources for the community, because all of the individuals gather food. If one individual isn't helpful for the community but eats the food, it wastes that community's resources. As the hypothetical alien butterfly species has different resources and doesn't live in groups with the adult stages, they don't waste resources, because adult stages don't live off anything the larvae community produces.
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Kamidio
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lamna
Oct 15 2011, 04:33 AM
These are just notes, but feel free to jump in if you have anything to say.

One large island with a Anglo-Saxon culture, with a few elements of Rome and the Normans, coupled with a obsession with longbows. About as large as Java/Britain.

Divided into five major parts
Royal Lands, small fertile plain in the south with the capital city, with scattered holdings throughout the Kingdom
Seal, a long narrow peninsula famed for it's fishing, precious and non-ferrous metals.
Badger, a patchwork of forest and farmland, renowned for it's tall, straight trees, and many bandits along it's poorly maintained roads
Eel, lots of flat land and swamps, similar to Norfolk, the Netherlands etc. Least loyal house to the crown.
Elk, Wide and wild lands in the north, full of forests, mountains but with few people. Contains several "princely states" that rebel every so often. Think Northumbria/Scotland. Also owns a city on the other continent

Other continent. About as big as Australia/Greenland
One Elk city surrounded by a small area of farmland.
South, Mountains and hills with 11 petty kingdoms and dozens of smaller tribes. Pale "celtic" people, often with red hair.
West, Thick forests inhabited by "First Nations". Three countries, most of the time.
North, open plains and farmland inhabited by centaurs. Unified into one, rather loose nation.
North-east coast, one rough city. Originally created as a port for mining operations by a Dwarf Kingdom and a Drow company. Ran into financial trouble and a lack of manpower before pirates and slavers took over. Hated by just about everyone on the continent, especially the Elk city and the centaurs. The land owned by the city is fairly barren for the most part, but rich in very high quality iron.


I don't suppose there aren't any Scandinavia parallels?

Flisch
Oct 15 2011, 06:09 AM
T.Neo
Oct 12 2011, 03:39 PM
Bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker.
Bicker? Bicker bicker!


Hey, you two. Stop shitposting and take it to the debate forum. http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/616452/ For shame. A mod and the third member of this site bickering and needing to be broken up by the one guy who no one takes seriously. For shame...
Edited by Kamidio, Oct 15 2011, 10:46 AM.
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lamna
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No idea, I'd probably fill them with elves and dwarves.
Living Fossils

Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural


34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur.
T.Neo
 
Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna?
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Flisch
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We don't bicker. We have a meaningful and respectful discussion exchanging thoughts and opinions. You'd do good to do the same instead of trying to make everyone shut up, which is the mods' job.
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Kamidio
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Oct 15 2011, 11:31 AM
We don't bicker. We have a meaningful and respectful discussion exchanging thoughts and opinions. You'd do good to do the same instead of trying to make everyone shut up, which is the mods' job.

Hey, I see what looks like a fight, I try and stop what looks like a fight. Frankly it's better than when I used to be the cause of a lot of fights.

lamna
Oct 15 2011, 11:03 AM
No idea, I'd probably fill them with elves and dwarves.


No dwarves. Dwarves suck.
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lamna
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Ok then, the dwarves get Scandinavia and Russia.

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Living Fossils

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34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur.
T.Neo
 
Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna?
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colddigger
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Just fill it with frog people. Problem solved.
Ooooo, one idea that that brings to mind is an island with multiple kingdoms (tribes, territories, whatever you want to call it) that are unaware of a world beyond the seas, and then a nation from beyond the waters moves in quickly taking over. It'd be one of those classic putting their differences aside to all burn together stories. I mean... conquer the giant... stories...
Edited by colddigger, Oct 15 2011, 05:09 PM.
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