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| The Limits of Instinct | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 9 2011, 12:15 PM (767 Views) | |
| lamna | Aug 9 2011, 12:15 PM Post #1 |
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So I recently watched a documentary on Wild Turkeys and played Mass Effect and that got me thinking, how far could instinct go? I've always thought that ideas about "genetic memory" were nonsense, but after seeing all the things that the Turkeys already knew, I wondered if there could be something in it. What does everyone else think? Could an intelligent species start out with most of what it needs to know? |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| Ook | Aug 9 2011, 01:05 PM Post #2 |
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not a Transhuman
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I think genetic memory could exist,as Micka (cat) fanaticaly hated our bathroom,becuase I cleaned her here,after this she remembered this place.After few moths,she gave birth to some kittens.They didnt feared any room in my house,expect that bathroom,even when I never cleaned them here |
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| FallingWhale | Aug 9 2011, 02:41 PM Post #3 |
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Cats can tell cats things, also if their mother actively avoided the room the kittens would too. |
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| lamna | Aug 9 2011, 05:30 PM Post #4 |
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Indeed, I imagine that was learned. |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| Empyreon | Aug 9 2011, 10:27 PM Post #5 |
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Are you plausible?
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Well, we know from bees and ants that a high degree of communication and coordination is possible through instinct. Most survival and instinctive behaviors are instinctual, but if we're thinking of basing sapience on purely instinctive neurology I think that would be a stretch. Part of the neurological quantum leap of sapience is adaptability, the ability to learn new behaviors in order to manipulate circumstances and thus ensure survival. Can innovation be instinctual? What were some of the specifics on wild turkey instinct? |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| lamna | Aug 10 2011, 11:30 AM Post #6 |
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Well they could tell exactly which kinds of snake were safe, and which they had to mob until it went away. That's what really got me, but they were had pretty much all they needed to know from the start. I wonder if an uplifted or modified species could be given the instinct for building advanced technology. |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| FallingWhale | Aug 10 2011, 01:26 PM Post #7 |
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North American snakes aren't exactly hard to ID. |
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| lamna | Aug 10 2011, 04:06 PM Post #8 |
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Yeah for people, but you'd think a bird would just bother/run away from any snake. |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| seascorpion | Aug 10 2011, 04:09 PM Post #9 |
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Why Can't I Hold All These Mongols?
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Personally, I think instinct in itself is a strange idea. it is most likely that animals have just got simpler thought processes, animals frequently do things that are not just simple feelings of survival. after humans have simple feelings of survival, fear of death,etc |
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| Empyreon | Aug 10 2011, 09:10 PM Post #10 |
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Are you plausible?
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Building it, perhaps, but I don't know about coming up with the technology themselves. You'd effectively be engineering a specialized drone that can, say, assemble car parts, mechanically gather and report information, or pilot a shuttle. While such creatures can certainly function in an advanced society they would depend on intuitive counterparts.
I run away from any snake; are you saying turkeys are smarter than me? ![]() I think that different animal species have different sensoria (the worldview generated by their senses) and what may seem obvious to one (if a snake is harmless or not) may not be apparent to another. seascorpion, I'm not really sure what you're saying in your post. Could you please clarify? |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| seascorpion | Aug 11 2011, 01:46 AM Post #11 |
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Why Can't I Hold All These Mongols?
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I believe that the idea that all animals are run by innate urges completely, is false. animals obviously use some kind of thought (as well as instinct, but they definatly don't just have instinct). predators plan ambushes and track their prey, multitudes of species migrate the world (albiet many are able to sense the magnetic field), all verterbrates (and some invertebrates) perform diverse actions throughout their lives and they simply can't just respond to every problem they face with an innate simple instinct. they quite obviously have to use some level of cognition to survive. |
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| Empyreon | Aug 11 2011, 02:08 AM Post #12 |
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Are you plausible?
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I see, thanks for clearing that up. I don't think anybody has stated that any animals operate solely on instinct, let alone all; if it has been mentioned somewhere, I disagree as well. lamna said the documentary talked about the instincts of wild turkeys, and it got him thinking about the idea of putting as much mental activity into instinct as possible. I think that the behavior of simple organisms and microorganisms is based on instinct, and perhaps solely so, but I agree that more complex life forms incorporate more complex cognitive functions. lamna, you also mentioned Mass Effect as a source for your contemplations. Since I'm not familiar with the game I'm not aware of the connection to instinct. What is it? |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| lamna | Aug 11 2011, 02:33 AM Post #13 |
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They guy who raised the Turkeys seemed very impressed with what they know, and that in some ways they are smarter than humans. Animals are not automatons, but many come "pre-programmed" and don't need to learn much. Well, to remove as many spoilers as I can, there are some bad guys looking for some old tech, and there is an extinct insect race that would know about it, so they find a Queen hatched from an egg on a derelict ship by a biocorp, and because they have genetic memory, the bad guys interrogate her. |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| Empyreon | Aug 11 2011, 02:41 AM Post #14 |
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Are you plausible?
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I see. Well, I've seen the concept of memories and ideas passed chemically in fiction before, but it was on a cellular scale. Also, I don't know that it was the hardest sci-fi in the world. |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| lamna | Aug 11 2011, 02:44 AM Post #15 |
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Well in this one it was that each generation of bug inherits it's mother's memories. |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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