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Ice Breath
Topic Started: Apr 8 2011, 04:07 PM (3,770 Views)
Holben
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Bats can only lower temperatures because the environment is colder. They can't lower them below environmental.
It would be like when your breath meets the cold air- not really something that kills.

Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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trex841
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1. minus wings, i wasn't planing on most of these creatures to have limbs

2. mouth

3. well, i think that it could have once done something like an archer fish, that it changed into a freezing mist as the nich did, ie. flying to higher altitudes.
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Scrublord
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Holbenilord
Apr 25 2011, 01:55 PM
Bats can only lower temperatures because the environment is colder. They can't lower them below environmental.
It would be like when your breath meets the cold air- not really something that kills.

Is there any animal that can lower or modulate its core temperature below environmental at will?
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FallingWhale
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El Squibbonator
Apr 25 2011, 02:50 PM
Holbenilord
Apr 25 2011, 01:55 PM
Bats can only lower temperatures because the environment is colder. They can't lower them below environmental.
It would be like when your breath meets the cold air- not really something that kills.

Is there any animal that can lower or modulate its core temperature below environmental at will?
At will, no.
Passively and automatically, pretty much all mammals.
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trex841
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well then it could have evoled over time to be able to d this actively,to keep the animal cool, so all we need to do is keep the water in the animals cells from freezing, which can be done with antifreezes, and figure out how this can be put to other uses, of which i have a few idea's, and how did we end up with 2 ideas here again?
Edited by trex841, Apr 25 2011, 05:25 PM.
F.I.N.D.R Field Incident Logs
A comprehensive list of all organisms, artifacts, and alternative worlds encountered by the foundation team.

At the present time, concepts within are inconsistent and ever shifting.

(And this is just the spec related stuff)
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Guys, while I love that we're speculating about something weird, and while I won't be that guy who yells or gets pissed that you all are coming up with such implausible ideas (as long as you guys don't troll (here's looking at you Fakey), I'm fine with this topic), I think this idea is a little ridiculous.



This ice breath, much like fire breath, would kill the creature before it could put the power to good use. As the predator tries to freeze water that it shoots out of its mouth, it would freeze all the water in its body. If it had antifreeze, the predator could potentially not freeze.

However, the evolution of the ice breath would be more trouble than it would be worth.



Let's take trex's idea about a flying creature who freezes water and lets it fall on top of its prey's head.

First of all, how could the predator ensure that the ice strikes the prey enough to kill it? Chances are that the prey would move away from the predator as soon as it found out that the predator was looking for it. Thus the ice would miss.

Second of all, water does freeze as it falls from the sky (assuming that the area is cold enough). However, in order to get the water to freeze sufficiently as it falls, the predator would have to be at such a high altitude that he himself would freeze and plummet to Earth.

Third of all, assuming some sort of ice breathing predator does evolve (on Earth or some alien planet), there will undoubtedly be some predators that take the evolutionarily simple route and just soar down on top of their prey and use their claws to kill them. The ice breathing predator would be outcompeted very quickly by this clawed predator and would have wasted its time evolving ice breathing powers.
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trex841
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Canis Lupis
Apr 25 2011, 06:13 PM
Guys, while I love that we're speculating about something weird, and while I won't be that guy who yells or gets pissed that you all are coming up with such implausible ideas (as long as you guys don't troll (here's looking at you Fakey), I'm fine with this topic), I think this idea is a little ridiculous.



This ice breath, much like fire breath, would kill the creature before it could put the power to good use. As the predator tries to freeze water that it shoots out of its mouth, it would freeze all the water in its body. If it had antifreeze, the predator could potentially not freeze.

However, the evolution of the ice breath would be more trouble than it would be worth.



Let's take trex's idea about a flying creature who freezes water and lets it fall on top of its prey's head.

First of all, how could the predator ensure that the ice strikes the prey enough to kill it? Chances are that the prey would move away from the predator as soon as it found out that the predator was looking for it. Thus the ice would miss.

Second of all, water does freeze as it falls from the sky (assuming that the area is cold enough). However, in order to get the water to freeze sufficiently as it falls, the predator would have to be at such a high altitude that he himself would freeze and plummet to Earth.

Third of all, assuming some sort of ice breathing predator does evolve (on Earth or some alien planet), there will undoubtedly be some predators that take the evolutionarily simple route and just soar down on top of their prey and use their claws to kill them. The ice breathing predator would be outcompeted very quickly by this clawed predator and would have wasted its time evolving ice breathing powers.
1. ok, were not on the same page. i had the creature spray water on to other creatures in the air with it, and that would freeze and cause the creature to plummit out of the sky.

2. not if it's built to withstand it, right?

3. a. this is for an alien i'm making, b. the domonate creatures in this ecosystem are, in an essense, "flying worms". ie, no claws.
Edited by trex841, Apr 25 2011, 06:39 PM.
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At the present time, concepts within are inconsistent and ever shifting.

(And this is just the spec related stuff)
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

1. Same problem still applies. If the predator and prey are at such an altitude that water sprayed onto the prey freezes pretty much instantly, then the predator would also freeze. Water within the predator's body would freeze at this same height, causing him to lose all muscle function and thus die.


2. How could something be built (read: evolved) to withstand it? Such an altitude would be devastating. As I said, all muscle and, in addition, neural function would freeze. Plus, at such an altitude, there would be such a low amount of oxygen that the creature would die of oxygen starvation. So even if the creature had a body loaded with antifreeze, he'd still die.


3. a) Okay, so I'll think of this an an exobio light from now on. b) If there are no claws (which are derived from limb structures, like wings), how can there be wings? c) A creature doesn't need claws to kill prey. Ever hear of jaws, particularly extendable ones? Certain species of fish have jaws that they can shoot (read: extend) out of their body to catch prey. Go on YouTube and watch videos of the John Dory fish sometime.
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trex841
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1.antifreeze

2...how about holding it's breath, like a diving whale?

3. i have my own body plan out for the creatures, and they don't call for claws and shooting jaws. all of the species have a different "shooting weapon" used to incompasitate, then the mouths make the cu de gra.
F.I.N.D.R Field Incident Logs
A comprehensive list of all organisms, artifacts, and alternative worlds encountered by the foundation team.

At the present time, concepts within are inconsistent and ever shifting.

(And this is just the spec related stuff)
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Fungi-Aren't-Plants
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Let us not forget wood frogs, who freeze themselves until spring and have unique antifreeze that allows them to freeze between their cells and not harm them. So, for instance, if flying insects became extremely scarce and had, let us say, defenses from the prey-catching tongue of wood frogs in the form of boiling hot exoskeletons, wood frogs could plausibly develope sharpened tongues that break through the exoskeleton and freeze it by exposing the body of the insect to their freezing abilities before the heat could be registered as pain. Thus, a satisfactory analogue to ice breath.
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trex841
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ok, so now we have a bat, a frog and an alien. i have to put this.

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At the present time, concepts within are inconsistent and ever shifting.

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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Fungi-Aren't-Plants: The frogs don't freeze themselves. They shut down all bodily functions (or reduce them to an extremely low level) and let nature do the freezing. They do have an antifreeze to prevent death by freezing, but they do not freeze themselves.





trex841: 1. That would just prevent them from dying from the cold. Their bodily functions would still be completely frozen/useless and they'd collapse to the ground.

2. See #1, but replace "dying from the cold" with "dying from oxygen starvation."

3. If there are no claws, how can you have any limbs, like wings? Obviously in some species you'd get extensions of the wings evolving separate from the wing itself in order to catch the prey and evolve away from a projectile weapon, which is energy costly.
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trex841
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1. fur+blubber+heat produsing mussles?

2. i'm going to explain this out, just to make sure were talking about the same thing. the creature would breath in air at a lower altitued and hold it's breath as it ascends.

3.ok, i must say this, if claws are easier then ice breath, than tell the bombeder beatle that pinsers are easier then acid spray.
F.I.N.D.R Field Incident Logs
A comprehensive list of all organisms, artifacts, and alternative worlds encountered by the foundation team.

At the present time, concepts within are inconsistent and ever shifting.

(And this is just the spec related stuff)
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Canis Lupis
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1. Muscles already produce heat.

2. Yeah, I know what you mean. Refer back to number 1 problemwise.

3. The thing is, acid spray is little more than noxious fumes. Relatively easy to do. Skunks do it. Heck, anything that smells does it. Plus, the bombadier beetle's spray just deters predators; it doesn't kill them.
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FallingWhale
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trex841
Apr 25 2011, 08:23 PM
3.ok, i must say this, if claws are easier then ice breath, than tell the bombeder beatle that pinsers are easier then acid spray.
Each step of a bombardier beetle's attack works. And think about what that cloud is meant to do; kill ants defensively and freak out meerkats.
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