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| Topic Started: Feb 22 2011, 02:29 AM (5,477 Views) | |
| Yorick | Feb 26 2011, 01:33 PM Post #91 |
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Adult
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What's so unbelievable about antigravity spacecraft and interspecies transformation?
I know plenty of coming-of-age stories that don't feature first love. This story just isn't one of them.
You misunderstood me. I never knocked overseas markets. I was just telling you that filmmakers aren't being unimaginative when they set their stories in America. It's because those filmmakers are Americans. As I'm sure non-Americans usually set their stories in their native non-American country. By the way, I might change the setting ot Oregon instead of California.
"Four" is being slammed because it was badly produced and acted. Not because the story was derivative. I do acknowledge the similarities to "Four" though. It'll just motivate me to write a better script.
Most films like what? Any film in any genre can have bland characters or not.
That's just one part of the story! It's about a spoiled brat who becomes a man worthy of being a noble king.
If you want to say it is unnecessary that's fine but I don't see why it can't happen.
It only has to be because romantic entanglements adds another dimension and makes the decision even harder. His surrogate family is qually important and if there was no surrogate family, the romance also wouldn't be enough.
There are no original stories anymore. It's all in the variation and execution. "Twilight" sucks but "The Vampire Diaries" which is also about a human-vampire romance is fantastic. It's all in the telling of the story.
I hate those hologram things. It worked well for Nightcrawler from "X-Men: Evolution" because he's humanoid but I never bought those for other alien species that weren't primate-like. Plus, I'm only going the Hollywood route because the aliens' appearance really doesn't matter much.
Odd. "Star Trek" seems to have a lot of fans. |
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"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
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| FallingWhale | Feb 26 2011, 05:15 PM Post #92 |
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Prime Specimen
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Serenity did it. |
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| SIngemeister | Feb 26 2011, 05:41 PM Post #93 |
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Hive Tyrant of the Essee Swarm
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The what now? |
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My Deviantart RRRAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!! | |
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| T.Neo | Feb 26 2011, 05:55 PM Post #94 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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Oh, they are very unbelievable. But since they are both credible (i.e. within the story- within the premise they are not absurd), that they actually enable something, and that they actually do something for the story- unlike the love interest that exists just for the sake of existing.
Yes. Because it HAS to be AS cliche as possible with NO exceptions and NO variations.
Really? I am not from the US and I would not necessarily set my stories in my native country, Blomkamp is a filmmaker, also not from the US, and his next project- although set off of Earth- seems to be quite USA-ified. Sorry, but it is unimaginative-ness. It's just unimaginative-ness on the part of the USA-based filmmakers.
This is a big variation... Oregon is only north of California... still proves to be the same old boring US setting.
I doubt that. It sure is being slammed because it was badly produced and acted, but it's also being slammed because the story was derivative and unoriginal... Anyway, what's to say this project won't be badly produced and acted?
Problem from my point of view here is that this script isn't all that good to begin with. I watched the trailer for "I am Number Four". I would certainly not go to watch that film... looks like a load of excruciating rubbish. I was especially annoyed by the trailer describing the various geographical locations in which the other 'aliens' were killed, and then... Four is in the US! Of course he's in the US, because the entire planet actually has a forcefield around it that denotes every important alien to immediatly be teleported within US borders. ![]()
Like this, like Four. Most teenage-aimed films... Also a lot of sci-fi films, sadly. ![]()
Exactly! Now why does this have to involve a boy-meets-girl subplot?
It can't happen for exactly the same reason that you or I won't marry a catfish: because the prince is bound- unless he has an odd fetish- to not be sexually attracted to humans. The female character might be attracted to his human form, not knowing what or who he really is. But him falling in love with a human girl stretches crebility beyond the breaking point. Even Avatar had a problem with this... the Jake/Neytiri romance only worked because Cameron redesigned Neytiri x amount of times till almost every guy he talked to said they would have sex with her design...
If the love for the surrogate family is not enough, there HAS to be a love interest? No shaking things up, changing them around? No... it HAS to be a love interest. He can't have a meaningful friendship with someone. Nope. Apparently in modern popular culture, either people are aquaintences you are indentured to (families) or sex toys that can think (love interests). At least, that's the impression that I sometimes get...
"It doesn't matter much, thus we can be uncreative and unrealistic!" If it does not matter much, you will not have to tailor the design to encourage audience empathy... thus designing a non-humanesque sophont is actually easier.
Odd. "District 9" seems to have a lot of fans. And I wasn't talking about space opera fans either. I was talking about Speculative Biologists. Big difference. Also... remember what Star Trek is. It earned its iconic status, because it was so good, and so inspiring- because it was about morals and ethics and sociopolitics. Not because of the phasers or tricorders or pointy-eared But no... there is no room for being original and also fitting in a bit of a realistic concept at the same time. Just no, just have to repeat the same old tired formula over and over again (and actually, rip of Star Trek, etc, without the substance that made it great). Sorry, Yorick, but you seem incapable of just coming up with an original idea. You just want to recycle old concepts because they're Stuff that provokes thought, both intellectually, and instinctually. That is the key to a good story, not trying to build a electromagnetic kinetic weapon to beat a dead horse. Edited by T.Neo, Feb 26 2011, 05:58 PM.
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| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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| Adman | Feb 26 2011, 07:08 PM Post #95 |
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Totally not lamna
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Dude, leave him alone, his ideas are cool. |
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Projects and concepts that I have stewing around Extended Pleistocene- An alternate future where man died out, and the megafauna would continue to thrive (may or may not include a bit about certain future sapients) Inverted World- An alternate timeline where an asteroid hit during the Barremian, causing an extinction event before the Maastrichtian. Dinosaurs, pterosaurs, and notosuchians make it to the present, along with a host of other animals. Badania- Alien planet that has life at a devonian stage of development, except it exists in the present day. Ido- Alien world where hoppers (derived flightless ballonts) and mouthpart-legged beasts are prevalent. Leto- Life on a moon orbiting a gas giant with an erratic orbit; experiences extremes of hot and cold. The Park- ??? Deeper Impact- a world where the K-Pg extinction wipes out crocodilians, mammals, and birds; squamates, choristoderes, and turtles inherit the earth. World of Equal Opportunity- alternate history where denisovans come across Beringia and interact with native fauna. Much of the Pleistocene fauna survives, and the modern humans that end up crossing into North America do not overhunt the existing animals. 10,000 years later, civilizations exist that are on par with European and Asian societies. The Ditch- Nothing is what if seems.. | |
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| SIngemeister | Feb 26 2011, 07:22 PM Post #96 |
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Hive Tyrant of the Essee Swarm
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Antigravity is pretty plausible if you look at it. Negative mass is fascinating |
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My Deviantart RRRAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!! | |
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| colddigger | Feb 26 2011, 08:30 PM Post #97 |
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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You know what's even more fascinating? Giant Robots. |
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Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| urufumarukai | Feb 26 2011, 08:44 PM Post #98 |
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Hitler is my spirit animal
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Gurren Lagann What? |
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Henry you dick! Mr. Hands "Am I boring? Depends, do you like watching documentaries about 19th and 18th century warfare, having complicated feelings about bismark and crying over the film of winston churchill putting flowers on FDR's grave. If so then I'm so fucking boring. " | |
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| Yorick | Feb 26 2011, 10:14 PM Post #99 |
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How so? How is it technologically impossible?
Wait. What does falling in love have to do with the tecnoligical possibilities of those things?
There's a difference between cliches and conventions.
It's silly if you wouldn't set your films in your native country simply because you feel you shouldn't set it in your native country. I never said that all filmmakers all the time set their films in their native country or should have to.
Then Britons Neil Marshall and Danny Boyle are unimaginative for setting his films in Britain, so is Spaniard Pedro Almodovar is unimaginative for setting his films in Spain, Chinese Ang Lee for setting many of his films in China and Mexican Alejandro Gonzales Inarritu for setting his films in Mexico eh? Yeah. I don't think so.
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"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
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| Canis Lupis | Feb 27 2011, 12:06 AM Post #100 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Yorick, I respect you as a person (heck, like you as a person). However, I have to agree with T.Neo here. Unlike Neo, I'm fine with the setting. While it is extremely cliche to have a story set in the U.S., it doesn't matter where the story is set. All that matters is what you do in that setting. And frankly, from what you've said so far, what is happening in this story doesn't seem worth my money. First of all, it seems like an "I Am Number Four" rip-off. You're just doing it with nobility rather than normal aliens. Second of all, the story seems pretty straight forward. "Alien lands on Earth. Disguises self as human. Falls in love with human. Fights villain. Returns home because it's honorable." From what I've seen from you so far, there seems to be no twists and turns at all. Just straight forward cliche after cliche. Heck, from what you've said, I only have to watch the trailer in order to figure out what this movie is EXACTLY about. And it's not like you have to pay money to watch trailers. For such a cliched idea (the idea of an alien coming down in human form has been overdone numerous times. Ever seen "The Day The Earth Stood Still" (the original, which I think is really good) or the "Superman" movies or "I Am Number Four" or "Megamind" (which admittedly was just one big sly parody of Superman). I could go on), it needs to have interesting twists and turns. It needs to be intellectually stimulating. Frankly, a coming-of-age story isn't all that intellectually stimulating. They've got sappy Lifetime movies for that. Third of all, I agree that the love interest thing just seems to be there for the sake of being there. I see the girl falling in love with the alien's human form, but I don't see the reverse happening. Plus, you don't need a love interest to make a tough decision for your protagonist. Since you want your princely protagonist to be spoiled, maybe he could be secretly hated by all his peers on his homeworld and have no real companions. But on Earth, he finds himself generally accepted and well-liked, thus bringing his snobbiness down. He could feel some sort of emotional attachment to the human race itself and have to decide between his own race or the humans. Actually, that seems like an interesting idea to me. Hear me out on this one. I think I can solve why most of us won't like your movie. You claim that these aliens (let's just call them the Nobel for now) have discovered Humans, but have kept their existence a secret. I can roll with that. Now, the Nobel could possibly live on a sparse, deserty world (though no single-biome thing) and marvel at the idea of oceans, beaches, and rainforests. So perhaps coming down to Earth in Human form is common for them, especially nobility. Just to get away from the sandstorms. Anyway, there's a massive civil war brewing on the Nobel's home world (let's call it Tudora for now). On Tudora, there is still the remnant of a vast feudal system and frankly, the poor are fed up with it. A radical "serf" rises up and becomes almost like a prophet for them (he will eventually become the general you keep referencing). So it almost becomes like a Marxist revolution on steroids. Anyway, the Nobel nobility would obviously fear for their very lives (perhaps on other parts of Tudora, there are monarchs being killed without mercy, much like in the French Revolution). Anyway, one particular Nobel nobility family sends their son to the paradise of Earth to keep him alive. He of course protests, thinking the planet backwards since the poorer people can make themselves richer. The parents make him look like a Human and ship him to Earth. Most likely, they'd ship him to a beautiful tropical place. I'd say pick Florida or South Carolina since you probably want to remain in the U.S. Now, I'd say rather than become a high schooler, I'd say make him enter the work force, particularly in a blue coller job. He'd detest the work at first, resorting instead to gorging himself and making those around him do the work. But he eventually meets some workers who urge him to work and he becomes extremely friendly with them. A female coworker could become interested in him, but he'd probably see the Human form as ugly and just remain a really close friend. Meanwhile, the general learns of this and goes to Earth himself (in a Human form) to find the prince. However, the general realizes that Earth is in the middle of a recession and there are a lot of unhappy laborers. He quickly rises to political prominence (having landed at the time senatorial elections are coming about) and begins to persuade the workers to rise up. His ultimate plan is to use a massive number of Human soldiers on Tudora, but he wants to kill the prince so that the latter can't amass an equally high number of Human soldiers to fight for the nobility (because obviously, the prince would have come across a similar notion). Some of the general's Human followers find the prince and corner him, destroying his Human form permanently, leaving the prince in his alien form (it should be humanoid, but not humanesque. He should be able to speak English naturally (by that, I mean that, while the Nobels would never speak English had the never come across Earth, they can learn English and speak it)). Anyway, he stays home from work for awhile and some of his buddies come to check on him. They find out that he is an alien but, after the initial shock wears off, they still feel attached to him. Later, the female coworker comes over and, discovering the prince in his alien form, reveals her dirty little secret. She reveals her own alien form and tells her story about how she was part of nobility but felt such a strong bond with Humanity and the freedom it offered that she stayed in her Human form rather than return to Tudora. The general, knowing that the prince's Human form is completely gone, decides that now is the perfect time to attack. So he gets some of his Human followers together to finish the prince off once and for all. The general, who has come down to Earth previously and is used to the Human form and all the different planetary characteristics (I'd imagine that Tudora would be higher gravity and drier with less oxygen). The general soon overpowers the prince. However, the prince's Human friends rise to their friend's aid and start to beat back the general. Eventually, it's an all-out streetwar between the general and his followers and the prince and his friends. The prince eventually triumphs, but decides to do the noble thing and let the general go (after destroying his Human form though). Then the prince must decide whether to stay on Earth and help his female coworker establish a coexistence between the Nobel and the Humans or to go back to Tudora, finish the war, and put an end to the oppressive feudal system, thus letting his people experience complete freedom for the first time in a long time. |
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| Yorick | Feb 27 2011, 12:26 AM Post #101 |
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Thanks but I should point out that setting a story in America where the writers are from isn't cliche.
Would you believe me if I said that I never saw that movie? I was looking forward to it but the reviews scared me off. I also only read the first two awful chapters of the source novel. I'll catch the movie on DVD later. By the way, the aliens (more than one unlike in my script) in that story are refugees because their planet was destroyed by a rival species. Not because a civil war erupted.
I see. You make a good point. (But just to remind you all, the hero has special powers; empathy, superhuman agility and accelerated healing.)
There have been tons of brilliant coming of age stories. Stand By Me, Almost Famous, American Garffiti and The Squid & the Whale.
Okay. I'll give you that.
But not this. Why can't people just suspend their disbelief here?
That's actually pretty good. I'll take that into consideration. I really like those ideas you presented about the Nobel and what-not. It's so Andrew Niccol-ish. But I'm going to have to turn it down. It's way too large and complex and has limited audience appeal. It'be better off as a novel that I wouldn't mind seeing you pursue. You should watch the Tv series "V," by the way. I think you'd like it. Edited by Yorick, Feb 27 2011, 12:32 AM.
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"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
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| urufumarukai | Feb 27 2011, 12:35 AM Post #102 |
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Hitler is my spirit animal
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I'd pay to see that. |
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Henry you dick! Mr. Hands "Am I boring? Depends, do you like watching documentaries about 19th and 18th century warfare, having complicated feelings about bismark and crying over the film of winston churchill putting flowers on FDR's grave. If so then I'm so fucking boring. " | |
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| Canis Lupis | Feb 27 2011, 12:39 AM Post #103 |
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Admittedly, out of those you mentioned, I've only seen "Stand By Me" and I absolutely love it. Yes, I do like a good coming-of-age story. But I've seen good coming-of-age stories and bad ones. It's just such an easy trope to do wrong as well as right.
It's usually the most seemingly mundane things that people just can't believe. For example, the producers of the amazing TV show "Fringe" received heavy criticism for the pilot episode by stating that "The plane landed itself" while they received little criticism for the fringe science elements. Though I do have a suggestion. Most likely, an alien's emotional perception would be quite different from our own. So perhaps the Human form that the prince assumes not only changes a person's physical appearence but their emotions as well. That way, they can more easily pass off as a natural human rather than something just pretending to be one. Thus the prince would see a girl as beautiful in the same way as you or I would see her as beautiful.
I'll have to check "V" out. And I might just pursue the idea. And hey, if your movie-producing/writing (what are you doing anyway?) career takes off, maybe it could be made into a movie. EDIT:
Assuming you're talking about my idea uruf, thank you. Edited by Canis Lupis, Feb 27 2011, 12:41 AM.
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| FallingWhale | Feb 27 2011, 12:50 AM Post #104 |
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Prime Specimen
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I feel Neo is overestimating American film viewers and Yorick is underestimating them. Also, needs more space fights. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX0IXHMuy7U |
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| T.Neo | Feb 27 2011, 06:16 AM Post #105 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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This is another can of worms entirely, I can write a huge post about antigravity and 'transforming into a human'. In fact, I can write huge posts about both.
Falling in love. With a catfish. It isn't about tecnoligical possibility, it's about credibility. I can make the most technoligically impossible things credible onscreen, but falling in love with a catfish... sorry, no.
Yes. A convention is what someone calls a cliche when they're being unoriginal.
Actually if I were a filmmaker I wouldn't set my films in my native country because it'd be percieved as me ripping off someone else. Sure... I have nothing against setting films in one's own country, but I would most definitely shake it up. I mean, who's ever seen an international movie about Kenya? Or Peru? People live there too, y'know.
Don't 'eh' me. Neill Marshall set a film in the US. Danny Boyle has worked on films set in India, Utah and Thailand. Ang Lee has worked on films set in Britain and mainland China (he's a Taiwanese American). I've never seen one film by Almodovar, but it does seem annoying that all his films- all of them that I've researched- are set in Spain, namely Madrid...
Oh no, no reason he couldn't land in America, it's just that... the USA encompasses only 6.6% of Earth's land area, and a mere 1.92% of Earth's total surface area. People do and do not watch movies because of the setting. If setting did not count, you could set all movies in a blank white 3D space. No... HAS to be the US, it HAS to be. Just like virtually every other alien visitation film... no aliens HAVE to visit the US, nowhere else, ONLY the us. NOWHERE else.
I did. It was pretty much implied by the reviews I read, and stated outright by many others.
It is no silly question, it is worthwhile risk assesment. Considering the amount of movies that are crappy- despite the best efforts of the filmmakers- it is at least something to consider.
Oh, it's good to know that you think I can make a good argument... Non-sensical? I think you just cannot understand it, being American yourself. Sorry, I do not want to be anti-USA or discriminatory here, but the fact that almost every single alien visitation film happens in the US almost smells like some kind of nationalistic international exclusion club or something.
Producing mostly for an American market? Did I not go over this multiple times? Of course there is nothing saying the hero couldn't be in the US, just like there is nothing saying he could. And because the US is only some small percentage of Earth's land area, it is actually most probable he will be outside it, even when population and economics are factored in.
Of course. But from what I can make out a large number of 'teen' movies are rather badly made...
Exactly. Most 'Hollywood flicks' have
You do realise several things: - Maybe Jeff Bridges' performance was what was worthy of an Oscar nomination, and also what actually carried the romance. - The example actually makes your use of the - (handwave) he cloned the dead husband.
Yeah... the science/medecine/stupid wife in Face/Off was pretty stupid... Also, who says the President can't defeat terrorists? And why can't a billionaire become a crimefighter? Sorry, but even the most absurd of Batman is better than making out with a catfish.
A catfish partner...
Yes it is. Denying this is like walking head on into a parked 747 in broad daylight.
English? That is in English. What language do you wish for it to be in? Oklahomski? Humanesque- alien that is either human or is a human with rubber bits tacked on/looks like a deformed/painted/assimilated/mutilated human. If you have a realistic alien, you have to work harder to get the audience to empathise with it, because they will not by default empathise with a... catfish, the same way they will empathise with a human (with rubber bits!).
You're knocking the concept of just about anything original with your insistance on If they're unrealistic, why don't you do something different? ![]()
They'll be dispelled by the sobs of implausibility from the back of the theatre...
And this puts it on the same level as Star Trek how?
It's a rip-off if you use pointy-ear aliens...
You just described the premise in that sentence there and it didn't provoke any thought on my part. The film itself would contain visuals and fluff, but it would not go much beyond "spoiled prince noble king etc etc".
See? Canis, you probably took less than 20 minutes to write all that, and it is already something that I would watch as a movie... not only is it worthwhile, but it contains fresh ideas, new ideas... stuff that not only provokes thought, but seems to have been provoked by thought.
I told you it was crappy. Ergo, comparing this idea with it isn't a very good idea. The problem is that this idea compares with it very well.
A relatively minor difference, it doesn't detract from the major similarities between the two.
Special powers? Why? What do they do? Exist just to be special powers? So it's now a teen superhero film, or something?
Suspension of disbelief has limits. I'm not going to suspendedly disbelieve everything a filmmaker puts on screen, sorry.
Oh... good grief, what is the solution then? How about Barney The Friendly Dinosaur? That isn't large or complex at all and has almost unviersal appeal... Just look at Inception... quite a complex, in-depth plot. It became the highest grossing "crime/time, heist or 'mindbender'" ever in the US market, and is currently the 25th highest grossing film of all time.. And: Guess what? It earned over 25% of its total earning overseas.
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1:50 PM Jul 11