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Would you see this movie?
Topic Started: Feb 22 2011, 02:29 AM (5,481 Views)
Yorick
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First of all, why do they fall in love? I hate it when there are couples who are all like "we love eachother, we have something deep you couldn't understand, blah blah blah, mushy gushy nonsense". So why do they love eachother? It may not seem like a major point, but all this love for the sake of love is one of the things that holds back a moving picture from being something great and deep and truly insightful.


Don't worry. I'm not Stephenie Meyer. I'll add plenty of scenes for the two to emotionally connect rather than basing their entire relationship on physical attraction. Plus, the female lead won't be some irresponsible, lovestruck idiot. She's more Lana Lang than Bella Swan.

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Secondly, teenagers. Every time the main character of some sort of action/adventure/epic is a teenager, I die a little inside. There is no reason for the main character to be a teenager. If anything it's counterintuitive. I mean, if I was an alien refugee hiding on earth, I would make myself older so I wouldn't have to go through the trouble of school.


1) Most viewers would be teenagers
2) That's just how I saw the character. All teens are in the transition from child to adult and this journey parallels the prince journey from spoiled brat to a king worthy of the throne.

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I don't know, the whole thing seems cringeworthy. I don't like it. I really don't like it. I'm sorry to be so harsh, I don't think it will be a very good movie at all. Perhaps if you change a lot of things around and have some meaning in it or something, then maybe you could make it memorable. But then again, I don't know. I thought megamind would be shit, still haven't seen it, but everybody tells me it's amazing. And you seem to be getting positive responses from people who aren't me, T.Neo and Watcher in the Puddle. So I don't know, keep working on it, maybe something good will come out of it. If you believe in it, then add some more details to the skeleton you gave us and keep us updated.


It's fine. I love criticism as long as it's constructive like yours is. I'll regularly update this with new scenes I'm working on.

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Though I imagine that with his human male disguise comes all human male parts, he'd have no idea what to do with it. ;]


I'm thinking of putting a funny scene where the prince asks his surrogate mother (a doctor) why the organ he uses to urinate waste stiffened after he kisses the love interest.
Edited by Yorick, Feb 23 2011, 03:58 PM.
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bloom_boi
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That would be awkward
"You shall perish, whatever you do! If you are taken with arms in your hands, death! If you beg for mercy, death! Whichever way you turn, right, left, back, forward, up, down, death! You are not merely outside the law, you are outside humanity. Neither age nor sex shall save you and yours. You shall die, but first you shall taste the agony of your wife, your sister, your sons and daughters, even those in the cradle! Before your eyes the wounded man shall be taken out of the ambulance and hacked with bayonets or knocked down with the butt end of a rifle. He shall be dragged living by his broken leg or bleeding arm and flung like a suffering, groaning bundle of refuse into the gutter. Death! Death! Death!"



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Yorick
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What would be awkward?
"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger"

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bloom_boi
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Dam not again. What colddigger said
"You shall perish, whatever you do! If you are taken with arms in your hands, death! If you beg for mercy, death! Whichever way you turn, right, left, back, forward, up, down, death! You are not merely outside the law, you are outside humanity. Neither age nor sex shall save you and yours. You shall die, but first you shall taste the agony of your wife, your sister, your sons and daughters, even those in the cradle! Before your eyes the wounded man shall be taken out of the ambulance and hacked with bayonets or knocked down with the butt end of a rifle. He shall be dragged living by his broken leg or bleeding arm and flung like a suffering, groaning bundle of refuse into the gutter. Death! Death! Death!"



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T.Neo
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I'm an American, American studios would be financing it and it would be primarily for American markets. It's only logical that it'd be set in America.


Primarily for an American market? Don't you know how much money films can make outside the US? A lot of films even make most of their money beyond US borders.

I mean, I'm a South African, and if I made a sci-fi film, I wouldn't set it in South Africa... ok, mainly because that would be percieved as ripping off Neil Blomkamp, but I can draw an analogy here: Do you want to rip off everyone from Roland Emmerich to Steve Barron?

I mean, even in reality you are going to somehow have a very big US involvement in affairs regarding extraterrestrials, so it won't be like there won't be a large American thematic presence- the story of the protagonist could also personify US goals, achievements and ethics.

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It's just an example of the fish-out-of-water humor prevalent in the film's first and second act. I added another example of what you might see.


Right. It works for the movie (kinda), my only complaint is that it's scientific rubbish. :P

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They make an emotional connection that transcends different species.


Yes, but what does that have to do with a romantic relationship? "Emotional connection" and "romance" are two different things, and I would imagine the partners would even be squicked out of an emotional connection if a romantic subtext came into it.

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It's only when everything that the hero holds dear is at stake, is that when the audience sees what he's made of.


Yes but... this is the formula implied in so many movies I cannot even count them. What's wrong with shaking things up a little? :)

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It'd only be a downer ending if the prince or his surrogate family dies or his planet loses the war. Either one is a happy ending.


But if he abandons the love interest on Earth and forgets about her after what they've been through, won't it just even be a little bit sad?

Perhaps this is me being cliche whilst you are being unconventional in this regard, but the emotional 'karma' of the film has to balance itself out... somehow.

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You misunderstand. I'm saying the zoo hypothesis solves the Fermi paradox in the world of my story. The aliens learned about humans a couple of decades ago but Earth still believes it's alone because the aliens haven't made First Contact yet and still won't until we've reached a certain moral and/or technological level.


So obviously their activities out in space are not conspicuous enough to be detected easily by humans?

I'd buy that, presumably they aren't star-spanning civilisations.

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The general is busy with the civil war to lead an invasion of Earth, which he'll do later. And the war broke out immediately. The prince was in grave danger so the king had to send his son to Earth.


So he will invade Earth later? Why doesn't he put off finding the prince till the civil war is over, then locate him on Earth, invade it, and 'eliminate' the prince?

Also, it doesn't matter if the king had to send his son to Earth or not, in a credible scenario he would still have huge trouble trying to master control of his new body- which could even be an important plot point.

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Does it matter? A hero is a hero. I saw the protagonist as a male. (Probably because I wanted a minor nod to "Hamlet.")


A hero is a hero, but almost every single hero I've seen in a piece of fiction like this is male.

A nod to Hamlet is more understandable, but it would probably get lost on 99% of people... they will just think you're following the usual cliche of having a male protagonist, because it's the cliche of having a male protagonist...

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It's just a movie. And a mainstream one at that so it needs a love interest.


In other words: A dumbed-down cliche collection that leads to the greater brain-drain in popular culture? :(

I never said there couldn't be a love interest. You can always fit a love interest into a film... somehow. It doesn't necessarily have to involve the protagonist, either, especially if you have some sort of ensamble cast- of course that has far-reaching side effects.

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Guys remeber this is the MODERN age! Screaming fan girls fancy the shit out of sparkling corpses! I dont think they care about whether or not this guy is from outer space! They just wanna ride him! Or marry him for younger girls...


Ok, maybe I should become a sparkling corpse, that'll definitely get me somewhere in life.

Except... a huge amount of underage girls will want to marry me. Thank god I think through my horrible ideas first, that wouldn't be a very nice outcome... :o

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Also, if I wanted to pick a place to hide my son in a war, I'd pick the one with the best military, armed civilian population and areas of both dense population and wilderness. USA looks like an idea hiding place to me.


The whole point is that he's supposed to be hiding... i.e. that he's not going to need that stuff.

Other countries have a dense population and wilderness. The US military would either be irrelevant in the face of an interstellar attack, or they would get involved regardless of the geographic location of the prince.

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I die a little inside. There is no reason for the main character to be a teenager. If anything it's counterintuitive. I mean, if I was an alien refugee hiding on earth, I would make myself older so I wouldn't have to go through the trouble of school.


Indeed, and I agree- in fact, hiding the prince as an old guy would be far better, school has to put the protagonist in critical social situations, for example, which could blow his cover. An older man/woman living in the woods... nobody would particularly care about them.

Unless there's something age-related about the handwavium used to transform the prince into a human boy.

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True, I hate child or teenagers saving the world or other especially large things.


Eh... it can be used to effect when a child/teenager/youth breaks all odds and does something spectacular, only problem is that in modern fiction it's heavily overused to the point where a child/teenager/youth not doing such things would be better used to effect...

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Prince William would disagree...
BTW, wash your eyes after reading that. It's Daily Mail. Might want to scrub your screen.


Ok, that is different, but the Queen still rides around in a horse-drawn carriage, right? At least, she does so sometimes...

Damnit, I wish a princess would land a military helicopter in my backyard. Backyard is probably way too small for that though. :(

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I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they had a concept of sexes, it's just whether or not they have what we would consider "males" and "females", it's entirely possible that they had went down the route that sexual fungi have with sexes that cannot be distinguished as one or the other but rather + and - for convenience.


Well... take your pick, how many organisms- not even metazoans- have evolved a sex system roughly similar to our own?

Even if they are "+ and - for convenience", that doesn't mean they wouldn't have... ahem... equipment.

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Though I imagine that with his human male disguise comes all human male parts, he'd have no idea what to do with it. ;]


Oh god... that would lead to an extremely embarrassing "fish out of water moment", for not only the protagonist and the love interest, but the audience as well...

"And I mean, what the hell is this dangly stuff between my legs? This thing's supposed to be some sort of proboscis, right? What is it used to suck up?"

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Surely they'd brief him on the situation?
Being advanced aliens with military power and that?


"And finally, the reproductive organs of the human male are these dangly structures between the legs. When sexually aroused, this particular organ will become erect, which can be uncomfortable and elicit unfortunate social reactions, especially from female humans.

There is no known cure for this disorder, but our greatest biologists advise people undergoing human-disguise to bash the organ with a heavy object until tumescence is no longer apparent. That is all."

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1) Most viewers would be teenagers


Maybe it's worth something trying to get younger people to relate more to older people, after all, they'll become old one day, and they interact with older people often...

Of course, acceptable making-fun-of issues (the kind of fun-making that older people themselves engage in) would make it worthwhile for teens to watch...

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I'm thinking of putting a funny scene where the prince asks his surrogate mother (a doctor) why the organ he uses to urinate waste stiffened after he kisses the love interest.


That'll only happen if he gets sexually aroused... which kissing the love interest probably won't do.

Unless he has an alien fetish.
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colddigger
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I want to say two other kingdoms have developed specialized gametes roughly equivalent to our sperm and ova... But you know what I'm saying, it's not the only form of sexual reproduction.

Oh lawdy, I've been thinking what kind of equipment a + - style organism would have, if it were to stick as closely to fungi as possible it could be a surface that they press together and fuse through rapid growth.

The chick might be okay with rubbing that thing, up until it starts rapidly fusing with her own flesh and her immune system kicks in o_O.

I'd hope they would at least teach him about it's function for urinating, how to deal with a full bladder, not wet his pants and all that...
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Yorick
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Primarily for an American market? Don't you know how much money films can make outside the US? A lot of films even make most of their money beyond US borders.


And a lot make most of their money domestically.

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I mean, I'm a South African, and if I made a sci-fi film, I wouldn't set it in South Africa... ok, mainly because that would be percieved as ripping off Neil Blomkamp, but I can draw an analogy here: Do you want to rip off everyone from Roland Emmerich to Steve Barron?


I have no idea who this Barron guy is.

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I mean, even in reality you are going to somehow have a very big US involvement in affairs regarding extraterrestrials, so it won't be like there won't be a large American thematic presence- the story of the protagonist could also personify US goals, achievements and ethics.


Or you could just set it in America. There's is absolutely nothing wrong or cliche in setting a film in America (or even illogical since it'd be an American production with American markets being the top prize.).

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Yes but... this is the formula implied in so many movies I cannot even count them. What's wrong with shaking things up a little?


Shaking things up how? The villain and the hero always square off in the climax. And why? This has been a tried and tested formula since the history of storytelling.

Dutch and the predator have to face off in the end of Predator. Ripley and the alien in Alien. Jack Traven and Howard Payne in Speed. John McClane and Hans Gruber in Die Hard. And so on and so forth. The hero shows what he's made off at the climax.

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But if he abandons the love interest on Earth and forgets about her after what they've been through, won't it just even be a little bit sad?
Perhaps this is me being cliche whilst you are being unconventional in this regard, but the emotional 'karma' of the film has to balance itself out... somehow.


Leaving and abandoning are two different things. And wouldn't he be abandoning his people if he decides to stay. He has to choose two good options: Love or honor.

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So he will invade Earth later? Why doesn't he put off finding the prince till the civil war is over, then locate him on Earth, invade it, and 'eliminate' the prince?


To use him-dead or alive-as a symbol of the death of the dynasty and destroy hope of the resistors

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Also, it doesn't matter if the king had to send his son to Earth or not, in a credible scenario he would still have huge trouble trying to master control of his new body- which could even be an important plot point.


It's a movie. I'm not going to spend whole minutes having the character learn to walk and eat and whatever. Just a few minutes of the prince stumbling around and slurring speech and that's it. The only thing he'll have to adjust is living as a human and as a plebian.

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A hero is a hero, but almost every single hero I've seen in a piece of fiction like this is male.


So are writers now supposed to write about female heroes to balance everything out? No way! I don't owe anyone to write a female-centric story for the sake of writing a female-centric story. Besides, I already have a couple of scripts with female leads so there.

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A nod to Hamlet is more understandable, but it would probably get lost on 99% of people... they will just think you're following the usual cliche of having a male protagonist, because it's the cliche of having a male protagonist...


I'm going to write a scene where the

No one in their right mind will find it cliche that the hero is a male.

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I never said there couldn't be a love interest. You can always fit a love interest into a film... somehow. It doesn't necessarily have to involve the protagonist, either, especially if you have some sort of ensamble cast- of course that has far-reaching side effects.


You're right but I also want to see the hero deal with human attraction. It's a win-win.

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Indeed, and I agree- in fact, hiding the prince as an old guy would be far better, school has to put the protagonist in critical social situations, for example, which could blow his cover. An older man/woman living in the woods... nobody would particularly care about them.

Unless there's something age-related about the handwavium used to transform the prince into a human boy.


He's a human teenager because he's an alien teenager and he'd be harder to find among so many children.

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I'd hope they would at least teach him about it's function for urinating, how to deal with a full bladder, not wet his pants and all that...


The surrogate mother is a doctor. She'll teach him all that stuff. Mostly off screen though.
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SIngemeister
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Wait, T. Neo's South African?!

Huh. Learn something new every day

And yes, the Queen does have the Gold State Coach. It's pretty fly/pimp
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Very...uncomfortable.

I would watch it, but my parents wouldn't let me. Probably pirate it and watch it at a friends house.
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Projects:
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Oceanus: An endless sea dotted with islands, reefs, and black holes. Literally endless, literal black holes.

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SIngemeister
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What would the sfx be like?
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Jasonguppy
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Wait, Yorick. Maybe the human disguise comes with a program of human emotions that are like nagging your prince to have sex with his girlfriend.
I do art sometimes.

"if you want green eat a salad"

Projects:
Amammalia: A strange place where mammals didn't make it and the land is, once again, dominated by archosaurs.

Oceanus: An endless sea dotted with islands, reefs, and black holes. Literally endless, literal black holes.

❤️❤️~I'm not a boy~❤️❤️
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T.Neo
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Oh lawdy, I've been thinking what kind of equipment a + - style organism would have, if it were to stick as closely to fungi as possible it could be a surface that they press together and fuse through rapid growth.


I really don't think that would be very practical for a motile organism... some sort of gamete suspended in an, ahem, fluid, would be more practical for example.

On land, you need a way to transfer that fluid... that is where the, ahem, probe-and-drogue docking mechanism comes in...

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The chick might be okay with rubbing that thing, up until it starts rapidly fusing with her own flesh and her immune system kicks in o_O.


FETISH RETARDENT COLDIGGER, FETISH RETARDENT.

I'm not even a girl and IT IS FETISH RETARDENT. :OO:

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I'd hope they would at least teach him about it's function for urinating, how to deal with a full bladder, not wet his pants and all that...


Yeah. Obviously they would excrete, therefore its function as an excretory organ would not be totally lost on him.

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And a lot make most of their money domestically.


But still take in a considerable profit from the overseas market.

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I have no idea who this Barron guy is.


Neither do I. But apparently he directed Coneheads, which was a film about aliens in America, so...

My point is that you'll be ripping all of these people and more. :P

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Or you could just set it in America. There's is absolutely nothing wrong or cliche in setting a film in America (or even illogical since it'd be an American production with American markets being the top prize.).


Or you could set it in America. Just Like Almost Every Other Alien Movie Made!

Unless of course you assume that audiences are morons... I can list a large amount of films that are set outside the US, but are intended heavily for the US market and feature American actors, so yeah...

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Shaking things up how? The villain and the hero always square off in the climax. And why? This has been a tried and tested formula since the history of storytelling.


What can be seen as "tried and tested" can also been seen as hopelessly cliche and boring...

"IT MUST HAPPEN, or else there WILL NOT be a story" is a pretty bad way to go about storytelling. People want stuff that is new and fresh.

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Dutch and the predator have to face off in the end of Predator. Ripley and the alien in Alien. Jack Traven and Howard Payne in Speed. John McClane and Hans Gruber in Die Hard. And so on and so forth. The hero shows what he's made off at the climax.


Well, yes. The least you can do is make it interesting, new, and novel- just like in all the films you mentioned. Not "hur, here I am, HERO, you, VILLAIN, are gonna get your ass kicked (end of film)".

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Leaving and abandoning are two different things. And wouldn't he be abandoning his people if he decides to stay. He has to choose two good options: Love or honor.


Depends on whether you're a logical politcian or a hornomal teenaged girl. :P

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To use him-dead or alive-as a symbol of the death of the dynasty and destroy hope of the resistors


Well... if he can't find the prince, the least he could do would be to kill the king and have the prince declared missing.

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It's a movie. I'm not going to spend whole minutes having the character learn to walk and eat and whatever. Just a few minutes of the prince stumbling around and slurring speech and that's it. The only thing he'll have to adjust is living as a human and as a plebian.


It's a Movie! It doesn't have to make sense! At all!

This is why we get stuff like Armageddon, with space shuttles (!) flying around the Moon pulling 10 gs, surrounded by noisy asteroid fragments that look like they came out of the director's nostrils.

Learning to walk and eat and whatever can actually make the film what it is- be part of the journey and growth of the protagonist, for example.

Besides, "a few minutes of stumbling and slurring speech" before suddenly walking around perfectly and speakling fluent English is going to stretch the suspension of belief of even the dumbest moviegoers.

Of course, everyone sadly thinks all aliens speak English anyway, so. :|

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So are writers now supposed to write about female heroes to balance everything out? No way! I don't owe anyone to write a female-centric story for the sake of writing a female-centric story. Besides, I already have a couple of scripts with female leads so there.


Yes, writers are supposed to write about female heroes to balance everything out. What they're not supposed to do is write a female-centric story just for the point of it. That wasn't the point I was trying to make.

The point is that females can be heroes just as much as males can. And if you have other scripts with female leads, that's fine, I'm just making an observation based on the fact that the majoritiy of leads in films that aren't romantic comedies, are male.

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No one in their right mind will find it cliche that the hero is a male.


So I'm not in my right mind? I feel sad that you said that now. :(

Is it a cliche that the hero is male? Of course. Should all heroes be female? Of course not!

Should some heroes be female? Why not?

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You're right but I also want to see the hero deal with human attraction. It's a win-win.


But... that's like me trying to deal with catfish attraction. It won't work, without it being treated by the protagonist as:

a) Squick

b) Humor

c) An odd scientific observation

d) A combination of the three

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He's a human teenager because he's an alien teenager and he'd be harder to find among so many children.


I could say that it'd be harder to find him in an old age home, or a homeless shelter.

It's not that hard to discern a person you're looking for from other people, if they are pointing and laughing at him...

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The surrogate mother is a doctor. She'll teach him all that stuff. Mostly off screen though.


Wouldn't they at least have the foresight to tell him about this stuff beforehand?

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Wait, T. Neo's South African?!

Huh. Learn something new every day


Ja bru, I can't believe you didn't know I was South African... pretty lekker, amirite?

Somebody needs to lekker choon you about geographicalitikicks, bru. It's really tops to know where everyone is and why, bru, so you don't get a klap from some person you thought was your lekker china, you know?

Lekker bru, keep it well, you know? ;)

Ok, so my nationalistic accent isn't that lekker after it's been piped through my kak interwebz, oh well...
Edited by T.Neo, Feb 23 2011, 06:03 PM.
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Jasonguppy
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So long! Darn them long posts, they are keeping me from my HW!
I do art sometimes.

"if you want green eat a salad"

Projects:
Amammalia: A strange place where mammals didn't make it and the land is, once again, dominated by archosaurs.

Oceanus: An endless sea dotted with islands, reefs, and black holes. Literally endless, literal black holes.

❤️❤️~I'm not a boy~❤️❤️
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colddigger
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Eh, free moving gametes are overrated if you ask me. A fixed surface of gametes which is fed by a permanent placental organ is all the rage.

There's always the option of a pair of surfaces that press and wrinkle together which the gametes are secreted across then pulled in rather than using a probe and hole.


--------I'd also like o throw oiut there that no, if he wants this to actually be produced then he sure as hell better make the villain and hero have their final battle at the climax as is expected with the tested and tried ancient story formula, once he gets his name out there THEN he can mess with things, but the moment the folks who he wants to make his movie see that they don't they're chucking his script in the trash.
Edited by colddigger, Feb 23 2011, 06:31 PM.
Oh Fine.

Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP??

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Jasonguppy
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That would not be as wasteful.
I do art sometimes.

"if you want green eat a salad"

Projects:
Amammalia: A strange place where mammals didn't make it and the land is, once again, dominated by archosaurs.

Oceanus: An endless sea dotted with islands, reefs, and black holes. Literally endless, literal black holes.

❤️❤️~I'm not a boy~❤️❤️
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