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| Would you see this movie? | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 22 2011, 02:29 AM (5,470 Views) | |
| Yorick | Mar 5 2011, 05:56 PM Post #196 |
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Adult
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I already have too many films and TV pilot set there. I want variety.
There's nothing incredible about translator chips and interstellar travel and Eli assimilating to human biology and culture is part of his journey.
1. His empathy comes very handy when it comes to understanding human culture 2. His agility and accellerated will be very useful when he faces the villain
Of course I'm going to write: Eli(alien language) 'Father, this is madness!' But I don't know if the filmmakers will invent a new langauge and use subtitles or just have the actors speak English as translated. I'm just not gonna join any side in the alien appearance issue and just write vaugue descriptions and let the filmmakers be imginative or not when it comes to their appearance.
How so? It seems to be your own personal bias is the problem. There's nothing wrong with a chip at all. Nothing incredible or lazy about it. It's just plausible and convenient.
I never said I was a bad writer and they wouldn't be bad filmmakers. ("Star Trek" was one of the most acclaimed films of '09 after all.) The concept is an alien teen living on Earth. His appearance has nothing to do with it. I could write the strangest creatures ever seen in film and it wouldn't matter to the concept at all.
I can assure you that the lack of effort you think I have with the making of the story has nothing to do with my telling of it.
It's like you're reading my mind. He can't perfectly understand it. He has to learn slang and catch phrases and figures of speech. Plus, there scene where Eli encounters his surrigate family, it takes him whole minutes for him to learn the English language with his chip. He has to keep reading it and hearing it. At first it's like static but it gets clearer and clearer and then he can speak English. The chip records and translates. It doesn't store information if that's what you think. |
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"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
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| T.Neo | Mar 6 2011, 04:20 PM Post #197 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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You really sound like you are milling out stories here...
Wrong. Even Google Translate doesn't work properly, and interstellar travel as it is portrayed in fiction and what it would be in reality are about as far apart as Earth and the Large Magellanic Cloud.
That just makes it easier for him and puts him through less hardship (i.e. he's less of a hero than he would be otherwise). Anyone can thwart a villain when they have agility and accelerated!
They don't need to invent a new language. They can just make up a bunch of alien, foreign sounds, and/or use an obscure foreign language, such as Quechua or Tagalog for the alien language (much to the amusement and/or annoyance of Quechua and Tagalog-speaking viewers).
There are no 'sides' in the alien appearance issue. There are just people who fight for biological common sense, and then there are people who want everything in the universe, seemingly be it a sophont, an alligator analogue, or a flower, to look just like humans for no apparent reason. And then there are cheap filmmakers.
It seems? It seems? You think? It is not plausible, and "convenient" in your mind can very easily be "lazy" to someone else.
I can do a whole lot of things I'm terrible at and say I'm not bad at them. Just saying... Maybe, Star Trek was 'most acclaimed' because it was Star Trek? You know, because it had everyone's favourite heros and had background and it also had shiny spaceship battles and it was made as a worthwhile film?
Eh... that makes it better, as long as he has to actually learn what is going on, it isn't some contrived super-convenient translator microbe gizmo thing that can even translate the gurgles of a dishwasher into coherent speech.
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| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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| Yorick | Mar 6 2011, 05:17 PM Post #198 |
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Adult
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I know. It's my only gift. I love that stories and ideas can just pour out of me.
I think an advanced extraterrestrial civilization would build better translator chips and engines for interstellar travel than humans do...
His emotional and not physical experience is what matters, the villains also have powers (each one is different though), and after seeing "I Am Number Four" last night I'm losing his superhuman agility; I don't need the comparisons. They don't need to invent a new language. They can just make up a bunch of alien, foreign sounds, and/or use an obscure foreign language, such as Quechua or Tagalog for the alien language (much to the amusement and/or annoyance of Quechua and Tagalog-speaking viewers).[/quote] Dude, whatever. I'm going to write it that way and the filmmakers are still the ones who'll decided if they want to let the actors speak another language with subtitles or not bother with subtitles at all like "Valkyrie," "The Hunt for Red October" and "Battle for Terra." It's really of no consequence or importance to me or the audience.
They have a reason. Humanoid aliens are just easier for audiences to relate to. It's not just laziness but practicality for financial and aesthetic purposes. There's no shame in being cheap when it comes to million dollar productions.
How is it implausible? Its not lazy when you don't want to waste precious screen time having the protagonist struggle with speaking all the time. (Actually, he'll still struggle learning slang and catch phrases and figure of speech anyway.)
This makes no sense.
What a false and ignorant thing to say.
I can't believe that's what you were thinking this entire time. I'm not an idiot. |
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"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
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| T.Neo | Mar 6 2011, 05:39 PM Post #199 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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You're not alone... you should hear some of the stories I come up with...
The translator chip is not the problem. The translation is. And I'm sure they would be able to build far better interstellar vehicles than we do (we haven't built any and surely won't for some time), but they will still be, literally, light-years away from science fiction spacecraft. Nothing, nothing at all, in the Millenium Falcon, for example, makes any sense from a spacecraft point of view. Only some things that are inspired by real spacecraft, in a cute way, but nothing else.
You see; once you get a better feel for things, you can understand the comparisons better, kind of.
Ahem. There will be members in the audience that get annoyed by aliens who constantly speak English. You're not getting my point. I'm not arguing against you here, I am arguing against the hypothetical filmmakers.
Asthetic purposes? What asthetic purposes? What's the fun in seeing an alien that is exactly identical to the species that you, and your over-6-billion-fellow-inhabitants-of-Earth belongs to? Also: finance means little, when you have the budget... some effects can be quite cheap nowdays anyway. The more and more I think about it, the more and more I find the "easier for audiences to relate to" excuse to be utter rubbish. If anyone thinks an audience can relate only to a human or something that is nigh-identical to a human, they should look at nature documentaries. A good nature documentary story is one that is able to elicit an emotional connection between the 'protagonist' an the audience.
Yes, yes there is. There is a shame on not using millions of dollars to actually do worthwhile stuff when you could anyway.
It is lazy because you're too lazy to put a good struggle with language into the script. At least, you are putting a slight struggle with language into the script... the "universal translator" or "translator microbes" of science fiction really are a deflated trope.
You never said you were a bad writer. Even if you were the worst writer in the world, which even I think you aren't, you still wouldn't say that you're a bad writer.
What from here to the Moons Of Mars is false and ignorant about that? I just summarised everything that made the 2009 Star Trek film what it was! I liked Star Trek 2009... I am neither a fan of Star Trek nor do I know much about the original material, but I still enjoyed it nontheless.
Good. Prove it. Are you saying that the people who used universal translators and such are idiots? Edited by T.Neo, Mar 6 2011, 05:40 PM.
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| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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| Yorick | Mar 6 2011, 11:26 PM Post #200 |
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Adult
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I would love to. Actual writing beats criticism any day of the week.
Dude, they're movies. Use your suspension of disbelief.
I got the comaprisons from day one and you haven't even seen the film.
They should only get annoyed if the aliens speaking English on their home planet are ACTUALLY speaking English and not simply their langauge translated for the sake of convenience. Anything else just makes them anal geeks who I wouldn't want to see a movie with anyway.
They wouldn't be exactly identical. Just primate-like. What if you don't have the budget or would rather spend money on f/x for a great scene rather than make-up for creatures that wouldn't even make the bulk of the screen time? Effects are getting cheaper but we're not there yet. No one watching nature docs expects to empathize with the struggles of a lion finding food to eat or birds migrating south for the winter unlike sentient beings who have similar problems to us.
The only things worthwhile is the cast and script. The rest is extra. Some of the worst movies I've ever seen are terribly expensive (ex. Titanic, the "Pirates of the Caribbean" trilogy) and some of the best movies I've ever seen are were very cheaply produced (ex. The Squid & the Whale, Interview). I hate lousy production values too but the acting and writing comes first and the rest second. And don't forget that the aliens' appearance has aboslutely nothing to do with the story.
It's not lazy when 'a good struggle with the language' has nothing to do with the story and it's just a distraction and slows the movie down.
If I was bad at something, I'd admit to it. If I'm good at something, well I won't brag, but I'll admit to that. What from here to the Moons Of Mars is false and ignorant about that? I just summarised everything that made the 2009 Star Trek film what it was!
That movie was accalimed because it was GOOD not because it was a "Star Trek" adaptation.
They're not idiots either since the fiction I've always seen or read where translator chips were employed, their devices weren't dictionaries but truly translated speech for them! |
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"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
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| Holben | Mar 7 2011, 04:39 PM Post #201 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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I dunno about that, i'm better at giving feedback in most things. When i come up with ideas, they don't fit too well with science. So i bury them. But i would rather not- it takes something away. Almost all sci-fi is in English. This is not good, but it is the human thing. Language construction is HARD Subtitles i'm fine with though, but some hate them. I watch most movies, and most i find problem with. However, i still watch the film- maybe i enjoy attacking them. Now, y'see, i reckon the most common sapient bauplan will be centauriforme. Primates achieving sapience requires climate change, niche unlocking, changes in other animals... But it takes something away from the film. People still speak in films and breathe. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| Canis Lupis | Mar 7 2011, 05:19 PM Post #202 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Holben, while I agree with you on the front of centaurs probably being the most common sapients out there, just think about cost in a movie. Yes, I know the "Harry Potter" movies and "The Lightning Thief" and some other movies with Greek mythology elements had centaurs. But which is really cheaper to have in a movie where your actors are humanoid: centaurs or a humanoid? Though I do agree that humanesque aliens are not the way to go. People are tired of seeing those. And I mean tired. Besides, people can empathize with non-humanesque aliens. Look at "District 9." I know a lot of people really felt bad for the Prawns througout the movie and look how much different they are from Humans. Plus, as far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong, as I probably am), that movie didn't really have that large of a budget to start with anyway. I just think that the plight of your aliens has to be Human-like. Their emotions have to be Human-like. The audience member has to be able to place themself in the alien's shoes and wonder "How the hell would I deal with that?" Humanesque aliens just make the job too easy for the audience members. Really really stupid audience members aside, your audience wants to be challenged a little instead of being spoonfed every detail. |
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| colddigger | Mar 7 2011, 05:41 PM Post #203 |
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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I think we should bring back rubbersuits and puppets. Then centaurs'll be hella cheap, just two guys in a horse costume without the head. |
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Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| Yorick | Mar 7 2011, 07:12 PM Post #204 |
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Adult
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That movie had a human protagonist we had to follow though. Anyway, it wouldn't matter how differently or not I'd write the aliens, the budget and the filmmakers will dictate how primate-like the aliens in their regular form (which won't be featured much in the story and isn't important to it) will be.
Incredible how that movie only cost $30 mil to produce and its f/x were mind blowing while "Avatar" still won the Best F/X Oscar for its horrid graphics even though it shouldn't even have bee nominated. I miss the late, great Stan Winston's puppetry and make-up work. Edited by Yorick, Mar 7 2011, 10:45 PM.
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"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
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| Canis Lupis | Mar 7 2011, 07:23 PM Post #205 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Yes, it did have a Human protagonist. So what? I and others still found ourselves sympathizing with the plight of Christopher and his son. |
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| FallingWhale | Mar 7 2011, 08:09 PM Post #206 |
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Prime Specimen
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Galaxy Quest has blob monsters that can be pitied. |
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| Kamidio | Mar 7 2011, 10:29 PM Post #207 |
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The Game Master of the SSU:NC
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The raptors in Jurassic Park when the Rex kills them. I mean sure they were total bastards that nearly gave me a heart attack when the jumped out of nowhere, but they were still heartwarming damnit!
Edited by Kamidio, Mar 8 2011, 02:57 PM.
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SSU:NC - Finding a new home. Quotes WAA
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| bloom_boi | Mar 8 2011, 09:38 AM Post #208 |
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What The?
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Or weird |
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"You shall perish, whatever you do! If you are taken with arms in your hands, death! If you beg for mercy, death! Whichever way you turn, right, left, back, forward, up, down, death! You are not merely outside the law, you are outside humanity. Neither age nor sex shall save you and yours. You shall die, but first you shall taste the agony of your wife, your sister, your sons and daughters, even those in the cradle! Before your eyes the wounded man shall be taken out of the ambulance and hacked with bayonets or knocked down with the butt end of a rifle. He shall be dragged living by his broken leg or bleeding arm and flung like a suffering, groaning bundle of refuse into the gutter. Death! Death! Death!" | |
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| bloom_boi | Mar 8 2011, 09:39 AM Post #209 |
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What The?
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....ups, been away for a while... |
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"You shall perish, whatever you do! If you are taken with arms in your hands, death! If you beg for mercy, death! Whichever way you turn, right, left, back, forward, up, down, death! You are not merely outside the law, you are outside humanity. Neither age nor sex shall save you and yours. You shall die, but first you shall taste the agony of your wife, your sister, your sons and daughters, even those in the cradle! Before your eyes the wounded man shall be taken out of the ambulance and hacked with bayonets or knocked down with the butt end of a rifle. He shall be dragged living by his broken leg or bleeding arm and flung like a suffering, groaning bundle of refuse into the gutter. Death! Death! Death!" | |
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| Yorick | Mar 8 2011, 12:12 PM Post #210 |
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Adult
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Without a human protagonist, it likely wouldn't have been greenlighted. Also, the aliens' appearance actually had a lot to do with the theme of that story unlike mine. We cared for the Prawns despite them looking like cockroaches which is what the filmmakers were going for. Break the mold and show the audience the ugliness of prejudice and fearing the unfamiliar. My story is just about coming of age. |
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"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
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