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| Would you see this movie? | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 22 2011, 02:29 AM (5,471 Views) | |
| Yorick | Mar 3 2011, 02:51 PM Post #181 |
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Finally, a reason. What's so cliche about it? The romance?
So what? American producers don't owe anyone anything and shouldn't care about the lack of foreign settings in American prodcutions.
Common sense. You'd have to be extremely paranoid to think that.
This makes no sense whatsoever. It wouldn't be a mission to Mars if astronauts were going to a desert on Earth and audiences wouldn't care if they saw an Arizona-set story as long as it was good.
All the alien-human romance in fiction for years that most people haven't and will continue to not care about.
Well, they usually don't insist on doing it. They're Americans, came upo with a story and film and set their projects in America.
Are you mad?
So what? No one should let movies be your education and it's not going to be detrimental to the populace if they continue believeing that alien-human romances are plausible.
Important details not trivial ones.
I repeat: so what? No one should let movies be your education and it's not going to be detrimental to the populace if they continue believeing that alien-human romances are plausible.
1. How so? Biologists aren't going to drop doing important things to waste time ranting abouta silly movie 2. And yet I'd still have their money. No one would tell somebody not to see a movie because of the implausible romance and no one is going to stop wanting to see a movie because of an implausible romance.
I would say it did because it was one of the most acclaimed films of 2002.
You have to see it executed first before calling it badly made.
Of course. You're right. But who is saying that I intend to write a crappy film?
But 'Casablanca' and my story share no elements! That was just an example of a great movie whose premise I rewrote to show how glib your argument against my idea was. Yes... yes you did ignore what I said. Two times in a row.
And I would agree with that. But I would take an entertaining story that has no great message over a philosophy lesson any day of the week.
How are these two things not the same?
Again, that makes no sense. Stories need a setting and audiences want one as well but they don't care WHERE it's set.
You're really ignorant. Do you know how much money it would take to fly a film crew to another country or state even though the American setting doesn't matter at all?
Then talk about what makes my story all those things instead of rambling on about trivial things like American settings and the plausibility of alien-human romances.
But there is no creepy patriotism. You're being paranoid. America may be a small part of the world but it's moviemaking capital of it. |
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"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
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| T.Neo | Mar 3 2011, 03:47 PM Post #182 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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Finally? I have not been on an asteroid for the last 12 pages. What is so cliche about it, is practically every single thing.
US producers owe it to their audiences as well as those in the film culture in general, to shake things up once in a while.
I don't see why I have to be so extremely paranoid to think that there are people in the US who are so militantly patriotic that they regard everything beyond US borders to be backwards and inferior. I also don't have to be extremely paranoid to suggest that maybe constant USA-ism in films contributes to this.
But according to you, it doesn't matter if it's set on Mars or not.
Ok... so why did James Cameron keep on revising Neytiri's character design, if audiences wouldn't care? ![]() Alien romances in fiction have only worked because of good performances and because audiences would (mostly) willingly bed the participants themselves. With each example in fiction, your implausible token romance only gets more and more cliche anyway. And of course: ![]()
Yes, but they don't seem to come up with a story that they film and set anywhere else, even though a good deal of them could do such a thing.
Are you?
Yes... it will. In a small and mostly non-important way, but it'll still be detrimental, just because. Though them thinking aliens are humanesque would potentially be far worse. It's a facet of biological percieved human-superiority.
Yeah, I would call the setting a pretty important detail.
Tell "No one should let movies be your education" to the numerous people to whom I have had to explain to that spacecraft do not fly like fighter planes.
If you want money I suggest you invent something that is original and that everyone will buy... oh wait... yeah. You would have their money, but not the money of the people they dispelled from seeing the film. And that, even if not mostly relevant to theatre sales, could instead affect DVD sales for example. And if the criticsm reaches the mainstream, which it will if it pisses off enough biologists badly enough, then you are in bad trouble... bad science in movies is not recieved nicely these days... Dustin Hoffman for example lead a campaign to put more real science into films, which if I understand correctly, was partially influenced by the bad science in The Core. And: Biologists have off-time, just like everyone else. Which they would merrily use to write scathing blogs.
I wouldn't go to see a movie about someone falling in love with a catfish...
Inception was pretty well acclaimed as well, so there...
I'm calling it a bad concept, not a bad movie. The concept exists, the movie does not. It is also likely that production companies would make such cinematic bubblegum into a 'filler' movie and not dedicate a lot of good talent to it.
The core concept is pretty crappy, thus I would not be surprised if the end script was on a similar level of crappiness.
Frankly I would call an argument against this concept that involved whining about a lack of sexy catfish perfectly valid, the concept is so poor that any argument will do, frankly. Anyway, Casablanca will share at least a few elements with this film, this is inevitable.
Is it okay if I call you an intellectual worker prawn?
Good grief, a Saturn V can remind you of an obelisk but the fact that they're both vaguely phallic is a different matter entirely. Ok... that was an odd way of putting it, but it still makes sense. Or at least, it should.
But a blank 3D space is a setting of sorts, if we go by your logic then clearly audiences won't care about it.
It matters just as much as the blank white space. Local film production crews etc, Yorick. They exist, and they're not that bad either. A lot of films are filmed outside the US these days and there's nothing wrong with them. And also: if the film is set, y'know, outside California, you need not move the whole production across the continent... you can for example film it in a place that is visually 'close enough'. Heck, there are parts of California that could probably even pass for parts of South Africa, for a very far-ranging example.
You don't get it. The
I am not paranoid, you are just a creepy patriot. ![]() In all seriousness, creepy patriots do exist and they are highly annoying. It would be very stupiddo deny this. Also, there are a lot of films made outside the US. A lot of worthwhile films, too. Isn't India supposed to be churning out more films than the US these days anyway? Edited by T.Neo, Mar 3 2011, 03:58 PM.
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| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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| lamna | Mar 3 2011, 04:35 PM Post #183 |
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Ok, I'm not wasting my evening reading all this. It's a perfectly good premise that needs work, and don't be dissuaded by some redneck who thinks a destroyer is a kind of battleship. Someone is not going to like what you make. There is only one sure way to get 100% approval. Kill everyone in the world. Or accept other people will have problems with your films. |
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| SIngemeister | Mar 3 2011, 05:27 PM Post #184 |
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Hive Tyrant of the Essee Swarm
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The former is better. |
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My Deviantart RRRAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!! | |
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| T.Neo | Mar 3 2011, 06:15 PM Post #185 |
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Ahem, redneck... again you are going into the territory of insulting people of British descent, lamna. Which includes you. I said that a destroyer is a kind of um uh thingamajig that does a whatsit and is a thingy and... and then I admitted that I know fuckall about naval terminology. I too believe it is a good premise (i.e. alien comes to Earth, hides as human, is pursued by revolutionary and in the process learns how to lead), but in Yorick's version it is cliche, un-credible, and 'simple', story-wise. In around 20 minutes Canis was already able to expand that into a story that I would most definitely go and watch myself, and also recommend to others, even if the actual film wasn't exceptionally good. His story is more complex, yes, but that is not trying to slide something under the foundation, it is rather constructing a new level onto the building... if an audience member is disinterested or too stupid to follow the more complex undertones, they are perfectly capable of being amused by the protagonist's foibles and stimulated by the action sequences. You don't define the upper limit of a film's complexity by the common denominator in the audience. You set the lower level by it. In short, Yorick, if you want this to be a better idea, this is what I personally think you should do: 1. A US location is most practical even if it does bore international (and even some local) viewers, but the constant California setting really is too much... the US is a large country and there are many places where an alien can land. 2. Do something about the love interest. Right now it is completely token and feels like it would be cringe-worthy. There are many ways to fit a love interest into the story that would not only provide a good romance element, but fit the entire story better and also be more credible, even from an audience that doesn't care about sexy catfish. 3. Try to make the sci-fi aspects credible. For example, the interstellar vehicle in Avatar is based off real concepts, but would most likely fry itself the moment the engines were turned on, in the real world. And the antigravity beams and mech-suits in District 9 are complete fiction, but the mere way they are put into the film makes them come across as something that could easily be part of the real world. Read up on science, technology, etc, and try to fit it into the film, even if it's in the most trivial way- the fact that you 'did your research' will get more people to see the movie, one way or another. 4. Make the assimilation of the protagonist into human society, and even the human form, difficult. Because inevtably it will be. It would certainly make up a large part of the protagonists journey, but it would contribute to his character development a lot (if you walk a mile in somebody elses shoes...). 5. Flesh out the backstory. What is the reason for the revolution on the protagonist's homeworld? How does it relate to human experience? How does it relate to the protagonist? Does he question what his role is as nobility? Does this affect his final decison? 6. Ditch the superpowers. They make the story too much like "I Am Number Four" and it just plays too much with the superhero theme... by putting the protagonist at a physical disadvantage, you can actually use it to show how awesome he really is. 7. Likewise, don't have them speaking English... some sort of exotic language is also 'stimulating', illustrates their alien nature, and does not limit the film that much since the protagonist would presumably be speaking English for most of it. Subtitles exist, and they work. 8. Last but certainly not least: Make the sophonts something other than humanesque. Why? Why not? It does matter to the story, because it makes the story what it is. You need to be inventive and original and keep the audience on their toes- stimulating them in that manner is always a good thing. They do not have to be complete starfishes, obviously the audience needs to relate to them, but there's nothing wrong with going to town with their design and it just makes the movie richer in concept. Edited by T.Neo, Mar 3 2011, 06:37 PM.
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| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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| Yorick | Mar 3 2011, 11:33 PM Post #186 |
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I already said that I'm changing the locale to Oregon. (By the way, I've never even been to thee west coast; I've lived in New York 99% of my life.)
Dude, I was already going to do all that.
Nah. I'm keeping the powers but there's a reason why his abilities are only defensive (empathy doesn't come handy in a fight) and not offensive.
Not my call to make. I'm just the screenwriter. For the former point, I already explained that Eli is given a translator chip so he can understand English when he's sent to Earth so obviously his home world doesn't speak any Earth languages. It's up to the filmmakers to decide if they want the home world scenes in the beginning to be alien language with subtitles or just have the actors speak English and it's inferred that their language is being translated for the audience's benefit ala "Valkyrie" or "Battle for Terra." On the latter point, the filmmakers will do with the creature design as they please. If they find it easier and less expensive to put humans in make-up, they'll do that instead of whatever original creature I invent in the script. |
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"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
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| colddigger | Mar 4 2011, 03:47 AM Post #187 |
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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That's true, Yorick here is merely the screenwriter, he creates the "backbone" of the story which everyone else builds upon and alters (to his horror). What he creates is far far from what the finished product will be. |
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Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| T.Neo | Mar 4 2011, 06:45 AM Post #188 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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If you're more familiar with the east coast why not set the film there? I've never been to Oregon, so I really don't know how it compares to California (which I've been bombarded with in fiction so often that I have ended up comparing my home city to it), but if it's in an area that is more or less the same, it doesn't change things much.
Really? It did not seem like that. Especially with 3-4.
Why? What the hell do they do? Having powers just for the sake of having powers feels like ripping off Superman/Smallville/I Am Number Four, or any number of teen superhero films.
There's nothing to stop you from writing that in the script, of course the actual filmmakers can change it but that isn't necessarily my point.
A 'translator chip' is already a pretty bad explanation, for example you can have the protagonist 'conveniently' be taught English some time before the film, and it is already more credible than a 'translator chip'. I personally absolutely hate it when a language is being 'translated' like that, unless it is being spoken most of the time and it is part of an ongoing series, for example (for a television series, it will probably become too much listening to non-native language for week after week). As I said earlier, subtitles exist and they work fine.
Then it makes them bad filmmakers, it does not make you a bad writer. Unless your concept is really good enough that they can spend a little bit of extra money modelling and animating it. To have one's efforts thwarted is one of the worst things that can happen to a person, but one should rather make an effort than make no effort at all. Edited by T.Neo, Mar 4 2011, 06:48 AM.
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| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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| lamna | Mar 4 2011, 01:17 PM Post #189 |
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Oh you need to read the Honorverse novels, knowing the feelings of those around you can be very handy indeed in giving you a head start with a fight. Well Southern Oregon is almost identical to Northern California given they, you know, are attached. But it's very different to "Movie California". On the coast, wet forest and big fancy new cities, then there are the mountains and inland are flat plains. Here is an idea about the setting. Toronto. It's a pretty cheap place to film and has stood in for New York so many times it would be nice to see it being itself. Vancouver is also another cheap place to film, and you have access to all those nice things in British Columbia. Also Canada will keep those who've been out in the sun too long, hanging round with dutch farmers, happy. For the purposes of drama some bit of technowizardry making English easy to learn is perfectly reasoanble. Maybe he needs to learn how to use the words correctly, what's polite, what's literal, words with multiple meanings. |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| T.Neo | Mar 4 2011, 01:30 PM Post #190 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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Yeah... something that makes learning a language far easier would be understandable, but "ok, now you can perfectly speak and understand a language you have never even heard before in your life" is taking it too far... |
| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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| lamna | Mar 4 2011, 04:10 PM Post #191 |
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Or maybe it just translates for him, but like the ones on youtube, it's far from perfect. |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| T.Neo | Mar 4 2011, 05:08 PM Post #192 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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Yeah... that is my main concern with a 'translator chip', they actually exist and they do a really poor job, even though they don't have as hard a job to do as the movie variety. Even worse is when a 'translator chip' is able to translate a language perfectly, that it has never even encountered before... |
| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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| lamna | Mar 4 2011, 06:19 PM Post #193 |
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Well it's clear the aliens have had contact with earth before, so that's not a problem. |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| T.Neo | Mar 4 2011, 06:40 PM Post #194 |
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No, but language also changes over time and for example trying to fit 1930s lexicon into a modern conversation would make you sound pretty weird. Or awesome. |
| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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| colddigger | Mar 5 2011, 03:05 PM Post #195 |
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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I think it would make you sound pretty awesome. |
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Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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