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Cyborgs and Digiforms; Artificial lifeforms acting as life
Topic Started: Feb 11 2011, 11:27 PM (1,856 Views)
Ànraich
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The term cyborg is short for cybernetic organism. It was once used to describe people enhanced by technology either through the desire to better themselves or to replace something that was lost. Popular in science fiction, the term is almost never used now that the technology exists and is rapidly becoming widespread. But for the purpose of this thread it literally means cybernetic organism; an artificial lifeform made of circuits and steel rather than flesh and blood. On a related note I also recently read that scientists are attempting to build computers and programs that simulate organisms in their entirety. They would have no physical form, they would be made entirely of data, therefore I have given them the name digiforms; digital lifeforms.

My question is, would these be considered "life?" Could they potentially undergo evolution through interaction with each other? Could self-replicating nanobots capable of altering their own design evolve into more complex organisms like true cells do? And what of the digiforms? Could they start out as simple simulations of bacteria and ultimately become simulations of unique complex organisms existing in an entirely simulated environment?
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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Kamidio
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I have a quote somewhere that says machines are life in their own way. Made it myself.

EDIT: Found it.


"How is repairing machinery any different than repairing and healing broken bones, ripped skin, or disease? In a way, machines are a form of life all in themselves."
Edited by Kamidio, Feb 12 2011, 01:02 AM.
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Space Gorilla
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Digiforms = A.I. systems.

How smart they are created, will spell if and how fast they could evolve, as digitally based existence, with a set of computer language that determines their appearance, as well as their intelligence level.

The classic cyborg definition is already alive today and people are walking around with cybernetic enhancements or limbs, that you wouldn't see possible 10 to 20 years ago. The new definition of cyborg is ready to be introduced, largely by the Asians, who work day and night building robots who more and more remind of living beings (human beings) with their communication, appearance and intelligence.

In my opinion, yes, both would be considered (some form of) life. Maybe not life as we are mostly used to (organic), but still something that could potentially (depending on the way they are made) exist after we are long gone.
Edited by Space Gorilla, Feb 12 2011, 06:12 AM.
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No cyborgs of the type you talk of yet, but we already have digiforms of a sort.
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Holben
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Defining whether something is alive is, as you now, tricky. But here are some proposed scientific definitions (note proposed). Would they fit?

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# Living things are systems that tend to respond to changes in their environment, and inside themselves, in such a way as to promote their own continuation.
# A network of inferior negative feedbacks (regulatory mechanisms) subordinated to a superior positive feedback (potential of expansion, reproduction).
# A systemic definition of life is that living things are self-organizing and autopoietic (self-producing). Variations of this definition include Stuart Kauffman's definition as an autonomous agent or a multi-agent system capable of reproducing itself or themselves, and of completing at least one thermodynamic work cycle.
# Life is a self-sustained chemical system capable of undergoing Darwinian evolution.
# Things with the capacity for metabolism and motion.
# Life is a delay of the spontaneous diffusion or dispersion of the internal energy of the biomolecules towards more potential microstates.
# Living beings are thermodynamic systems that have an organized molecular structure.

Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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Dark-Matter
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Well cybernetic organisms are alive,but wouldn't the maching still work even if the creature is dead and the artificial part can't be past to it generation if they can even reproduce.Maybe the artificial part have like a artificial reproductive organ that put the mechanical part to the babys or when sperm enter to the ovul artificials fluids or something like that could enter in the ovul and merge with the sperm.As the creature grows the artifical bodypart grow in the same rate as the body.Self-replication nanobot could invade the dna and modify the creatures,but evolved like cell naturally I douth it.The nanobot could invade a cell and start to live inside of it until it becomes part of the cell like mitochondrians on earth.
Artifial life can replicate itself I even have made many concepts about an artificial extraterrestrial life,but the A.L. have to have atleast some type of fluid or something like nanobot that help to form a food chain.Virtual life is more hard to defind because the only one we know are computer virus,but life on earth started with simple virus and look at what we end up giant creatures that are starting to explore space.Virtual life can replicate itself like most organisms,but something else that that I don't know.Other thing is synthetic life have organs,or at least artificial organs, and one of the artificial organs could be for reproduction doesn't that make it a living creature.
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T.Neo
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Artificial organisms, no matter how "clunky", are still life- they're just mechanical life, for example, rather than chemical life.

Digiforms (sounds like something out of a bad Anime, btw...), well, since they lack a structure in a conventional sense and their interaction with the real world is limited, I wouldn't strictly regard them as life, but rather simulations of life. Is a simulation of a cup of water a real cup of water? No.

Digital life simulations are nothing new, there have been ones that you can actually download and try yourself for a relatively long time.
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Dark-Matter
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If why ever what to answer this question we most first know exactly what is life and maybe the only way is to find life on other planet or an exotic creatures on earth that could help us in this question.
Edited by Dark-Matter, Jan 15 2012, 10:07 PM.
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Holben
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Life (cf. biota) is a characteristic that distinguishes objects that have signaling and self-sustaining processes (biology) from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased (death), or else because they lack such functions and are classified as inanimate.
Ho hum.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Dark-Matter
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Life (cf. biota) is a characteristic that distinguishes objects that have signaling and self-sustaining processes (biology) from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased (death), or else because they lack such functions and are classified as inanimate.


Wait are you saying that life is something that have to die,there are some jellyfish that are immortals in life-spand and what they are not alive because they dont die at old ages.
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Holben
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They aren't truly immortal. They die eventually, hence why they have to reproduce- and their DNA wears down.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Ànraich
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T.Neo
Feb 15 2011, 03:45 PM
Is a simulation of a cup of water a real cup of water? No.
Can you prove that?
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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Dark-Matter
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They aren't truly immortal. They die eventually, hence why they have to reproduce- and their DNA wears down.

O-O well that makes more sence then,well yahoo fools me agen :dazed: .
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Kamidio
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Holbenilord
Feb 15 2011, 03:58 PM
They aren't truly immortal. They die eventually, hence why they have to reproduce- and their DNA wears down.
Only because we haven't fixed the telophane in our cells from degrading.
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Holben
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Telomeres.
And they aren't all...
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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