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| I pterosaur flightlessness really necessary? | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 11 2011, 09:25 AM (1,043 Views) | |
| Carlos | Feb 11 2011, 09:25 AM Post #1 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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In general, pterosaurs seem to have occupied large bird niches much more efficiently than birds themselves. Whereas birds easily loose flight thanks to the pressures their heavy hindlimbs provide, pterosaurs managed to afford becoming at the same size and even larger than our ratites and keep flighted, thanks to their less "kill joy" hindlimbs and catapult style take off. Then there's the fact that loosing flight is harder for pterosaurs than most birds. For most avians all that is required is neoteny, thus not producing strong wings, wing musculature and wing feathers at all. For Galliformes, that develop the first two since birth, it is considerably harder to loose flight; ence, whereas ratites and waterfowl (Gastornithids, Brontornis and Dromornithids) easily managed to become flightless on large landmasses, Galliformes kept flighted, even when they colonised islands like New Zealand; the only exceptions so far are Sylviornis and several megapodes, which reached Pacific islands long enough to loose flight. So, it it takes so long for birds like Galliformes to loose flight, I think it would be even harder for pterosaurs, since they have wing membranes of so many layers to loose, which would not be as easy to loose as feathers. However, remaining flighted would not necessarily be adverse to pterosaur diversification. If tapejarids managed to occupy a niche roughly similar to that of a cassowary, I suppose a flying terror bird azdarchid could still exist. Which would, of course, be much more dangerous than the flightless terror birds |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Scrublord | Feb 12 2011, 05:29 PM Post #2 |
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Father Pellegrini
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I saw that post on the Spec Yahoo group. Does this mean the flightless Terrorsaurs are getting bobunked, or can they stay? They were some of my favorites. |
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My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One Deviantart Account: http://elsqiubbonator.deviantart.com In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph | |
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| Rick Raptor | Feb 12 2011, 05:37 PM Post #3 |
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Adolescent
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I think they will stay and instead of becoming flightless they will still be capable of flying, making them even more terrifying. |
| [My DeviantArt account] | |
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| Scrublord | Feb 12 2011, 06:20 PM Post #4 |
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Father Pellegrini
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So there will be NO flightless pterosaurs
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My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One Deviantart Account: http://elsqiubbonator.deviantart.com In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph | |
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| Kamidio | Feb 12 2011, 06:38 PM Post #5 |
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The Game Master of the SSU:NC
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Save for the original, lizard-like pterosaurs. |
SSU:NC - Finding a new home. Quotes WAA
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| Carlos | Feb 13 2011, 05:26 AM Post #6 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Well, for starters I still haven't got a reply. And second, when something is more efficient at killing while still able to fly than flightless, why the worry? Considering how predators need very large spaces, I think a predatory flying azhdarchid is more likely than a flightless one; if they were flightless they'd be more vulnerable to extinction. Then again, the Flores island marabou was becoming flightless at the expense of vulnerability, so... |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Scrublord | Feb 13 2011, 08:26 AM Post #7 |
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Father Pellegrini
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Maybe you could have a one-off species of flightless azdarchid on Spec's Flores? |
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My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One Deviantart Account: http://elsqiubbonator.deviantart.com In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph | |
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| Carlos | Feb 13 2011, 08:51 AM Post #8 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Well, there is a Sulawesi pterosaur that is flightless. I'm still writing it though |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Cephylus | Feb 13 2011, 08:59 AM Post #9 |
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Torando of Terror
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Yes, I've been wondering about this. Being flighted, they can travel across long distances to search for food... But terror bird/cassowary azhdarchids are still appealing to me. Didn't dsungapterids actually had better potential/chance at evolving to be flightless rather than azhdarchids? They lacked air sacs in their wing or something, I remember... |
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| Scrublord | Feb 13 2011, 09:01 AM Post #10 |
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Father Pellegrini
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And they were basically the pterosaur equivalents of turkeys. |
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My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One Deviantart Account: http://elsqiubbonator.deviantart.com In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph | |
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| Cephylus | Feb 13 2011, 09:04 AM Post #11 |
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Torando of Terror
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They were more aggressive, I think. Didn't they scavenge, etc? Kind of like flying beaked piggies with membranous wings. |
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| Carlos | Feb 13 2011, 09:45 AM Post #12 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Actually, they were closer to boars and bears in habits. The only thing turkey like about them was that they were poor fliers. Indeed, I think dsungaripterids would loose flight sooner than azhdarchids. They have more robust bones, no air sacks on the wings and several more adaptations to terrestriality. |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Cephylus | Feb 13 2011, 09:55 AM Post #13 |
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Torando of Terror
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Yeah, I remember 'Mesozoic Flying Pigs' from your DA essay. Plus Rick Raptor's wonderful illustration on the scavenging dsungapteird depicting them as having a boar-like/bear-like lifestyle. I don't think pterosaurian turkeys is not an appropriate description for those quite intimidating creatures. |
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| Scrublord | Mar 20 2011, 11:16 AM Post #14 |
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Father Pellegrini
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I've also noticed that the Spec Yahoo group hasn't updated any since you posted this essay there. |
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My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One Deviantart Account: http://elsqiubbonator.deviantart.com In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph | |
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| Carlos | Mar 20 2011, 12:25 PM Post #15 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Unlike me, most members are actual biologists and cannot be bothered with projects when they have work to do. |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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