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| Polynesian civilasation | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 5 2011, 07:21 PM (645 Views) | |
| Carlos | Feb 5 2011, 07:21 PM Post #1 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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So I was re-watching the fabled South Pacific series, and I was reminded of an archeological finding of a "city" (probably more like a village with houses made of rocks instead of wood, but city was the word used anyway) in an island I forgot the name, one of the two found in the South Pacific in fact (the other presumably being the Rapa Nui civilasation). It so happens that I had an idea of making a fantasy story set on a polynesian setting quite some time before (it came as an inversion of the tendency for fantasy to be located in either middle ages Europe or Japan), and as such idea was finally resparked I thought of giving a try at designing the world. Most obviously, for a truly impressive polynesian civilasation to evolve, it'd have to be on a landmass bigger than the average Pacific island, and sufficiently productive to allow the civilasation to evolve. So I suppose the Zealandia continent would be apropriate, as it would have enough availiable landmass to allow a civilasation akin to those in Easter Island and the other island I forgot. Because the polyneasian already had agriculture, I really think the only reason why an impressive civilasation from them has not evolved was because of the only availiable landmass to them were small islands. But with a landmass much bigger, they'd have the chance to keep progressing. Incidently, it also allows usage of speculative biology. |
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| Cephylus | Feb 5 2011, 07:52 PM Post #2 |
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Torando of Terror
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That's interesting. It would be a change from the regular fantasy settings. So what animals would the Polynesians domesticate? What would be living there? How would the architecture look like? Maybe since the architecture was superficially similar to the Incan civilization, maybe there could arise a grand civilization with their own mythology, religious belief system and grand cities made of stone, with 'pyramids' and such. For the fauna, maybe there should be ratites present. Or other big sauropsids, big raptors, mekosuchines, meiolanids, madtsoiid snakes. |
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| Ànraich | Feb 5 2011, 10:23 PM Post #3 |
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi
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Well Britain is an island and they developed civilization just fine. Four of them, in fact. Hawaii also had a civilization of their own, particularly after King Kamehameha I united the islands. And Easter Island was pretty advanced before they cut down all their trees and starved to death. |
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We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar. "The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming Tree That Owns Itself
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| lamna | Feb 6 2011, 04:37 AM Post #4 |
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What you really need to make a civilization in New Zealand is Potatoes. The introduction of those to New Zealand made farming much easier, women and slaves could do it letting the men go raid other clans. With that you don't even need more land than already exist. As long as they can make contact with South America you're in business. Or I suppose New Zealand could have a native tuber as good or better than potatoes. |
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| Spugpow | Feb 6 2011, 05:12 AM Post #5 |
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Prime Specimen
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Polynesians would have developed civilizations given enough time; the Hawaiians and Tongans were on their way to full fledged empires before Europeans came and quashed them. Britain doesn't count, it's always been an offshoot of Europe technologically. The Polynesians had to develop their technology in isolation from more advanced cultures in Asia. |
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| Carlos | Feb 6 2011, 06:51 AM Post #6 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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For the animals, I suppose many native species would meet their demise, as in most cases, but given that the polynesians already had dogs, kiore, chickens and pigs I suppose they could expand their range of domesticated species. This could be more plausible if they had already been in other islands and exterminated the native megafauna; there is a point when people learn, after all. Of domesticated island endemics, meiolanids and ratites come to mind, as do monitors. As mentioned before, Britain is really just an extension of european civilasations. However, the british islands did once had what appears to have been an unique civilasation before the later invaders came. Native tubers akin to potatoes could be present, specially in more hostile environments like highlands akin to those of New Zealand. Of course, contact with south american civilasations could help bring potatoes, and so make the civilasation progress faster. |
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| Ook | Feb 6 2011, 07:15 AM Post #7 |
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not a Transhuman
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Polynesians brought chickens to SA before europeans arrived,perhaps they might bring potatoes to zealandia. Extermination of most of the native megafauna is plausible,but with different conditions,the native ratites should have more young and grow faster than HE native NZ ratites(and other birds),perhaps the Emu sized and smaller species should survive,and perhaps later,the polynesians should domesticate them,just like it happened with ostriches,rheas and emus. |
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| Carlos | Feb 6 2011, 08:08 AM Post #8 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Indeed, I think that my particular polynesian civilasation is derived from an island in which they had exterminated the native species and were starved into leaving into finding new territories, and the ones that got to Zealandia became mroe carefull about causing extinctions. Some species obviously died, but a native moa-like ratite survived and was domesticated, and several thousand years later several new breeds appeared. Other domestictaed creatures were a type of meiolanid and pet monitors and mekosuchines, besides some native small flightless birds like rails. In fact, a lot of the island endemics were domesticated, usually being used for food (as, being generally peacefull creatures, it would be easy to capture them and keep them in paddocks or whatever until they are ready to be killed and eaten). The main issue is the fact that many have very slow reproductive rates, although for some species this was fairly easy to solve, specially for rails. I decided to name my mythical polynesian continent (Zealandia to us) as Hinawahine (maori/hawaiian for "grey haired woman"). They colonised the island from Hawaiki, a place mentioned in all polynesian mythologies as the birthplace of the polynesian race as well as their underworld (where they go after they die; this could be justified as my version of Hawaiki met the same fate as Easter Island, except that the natives managed to survive and escape); while some tribes reached Hinawahine, some went elsewhere to Tepitootehenua, an Easter Island analogue where the people did not learn their lesson and kept their ruthless ways. |
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| lamna | Feb 6 2011, 02:01 PM Post #9 |
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Why grey haired woman? |
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| Carlos | Feb 6 2011, 02:17 PM Post #10 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Because A) the words for "grey haired" and "woman" are shared by Hawaiian polynesians and Maori, and it is essencially for the same reason as the Maori named New Zealand "land of the long white cloud", only that I wanted to be more original.Of course, I decided to divide the Zealandia land mass into Hinawahine and Aotearoa, to add to the feel of "alternate history atmosphere" |
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| Jasonguppy | Feb 6 2011, 02:43 PM Post #11 |
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Cardinal
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I see. Very interesting ideas. Would there be odd megafauna here? Perhaps even small populations still surviving, seeing as it is a larger land mass. |
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I do art sometimes. "if you want green eat a salad" Projects: Amammalia: A strange place where mammals didn't make it and the land is, once again, dominated by archosaurs. Oceanus: An endless sea dotted with islands, reefs, and black holes. Literally endless, literal black holes. ❤️❤️~I'm not a boy~❤️❤️ | |
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| T.Neo | Feb 6 2011, 03:03 PM Post #12 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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The British Isles don't count at all. They're an offshoot of Europe not only technologically, but culturally and linguistically as well. Heck, English is a Germanic language! The real languages of the British Isles were the Celtic languages, it's quite amusing that one of the most defining things about British people is a language that is more related to German than it is to their original languages. In addition, the British Isles are some 315 000 square kilometers. Zealandia in total (terrestrial area) is maybe 285 000 square kilometers. Great Britain is around 240 000 square kilometers in one big contiguous landmass. Even Aotearoa is split up into two islands, with the south being relatively rugged if I understand correctly. Now, I'm not saying that a Polynesian civilisation isn't possible- it certainly is, as history has shown. But we can't even compare large landmasses such as New Zealand to the British Isles, even less so when we realise that Britain is really just a subset of Europe, that got lucky as a superpower because their geography not only isolated them but fostered an oceangoing civilisation. |
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| Carlos | Feb 6 2011, 03:38 PM Post #13 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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@jasoguppy: Probably. Although neither Australia nor New Guinea have relic megafauna despiste their bigger landmasses. Still, thanks to being the survivors of an Easter Island like environment, they probably allowed some non-domesticated megafauna to dwell around. @T.Neo: Indeed, although note that, since the Zealandian continent is mostly above water, landmass is much bigger on this parallel world. It is divided in two by a shallow cannal, but otherwise it is very large. |
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| lamna | Feb 6 2011, 05:34 PM Post #14 |
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I've seen a documentary on Polynesian culture, and all the languages are related. |
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| Zoroaster | Feb 7 2011, 01:06 AM Post #15 |
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Fecund Fundiment
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and they all originated, along with the Malay languages, on Formosa / Taiwan. technically - there are civilizations built up by relatives of the Polynesians, e.g. Borobodur on Java - an ancient Hindu temple (all of the Islands - Sumatra, Java, Bali etc were once Hindu - Bali still is). The Hawaiins built out of stone, the stone wall near where Captain James Cooks was killed is still there. He was their first contact with Europeans I believe. But this project sounds fascinating, a completely isolated civilization, based on more advanced and abstract concepts from the culture of the Hawaiins and Maori and Moriori... One concept, which I think could make things interesting, is the hereditary immunity that some Polynesians and Melanesians have to Kuru (a form of prion infection like mad cow disease from practicing cannibalism). It's widely accepted that after all the Moa were hunted to extinction, the Maori had to resort to cannibalism for a period, and probably still practised it when white men arrived. |
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it is essencially for the same reason as the Maori named New Zealand "land of the long white cloud", only that I wanted to be more original.


1:51 PM Jul 11