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The official cliche list; What should we try and avoid perhaps?
Topic Started: Jan 21 2011, 12:18 PM (6,357 Views)
Kamidio
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You two stop arguing. You've been doing it for the past few pages.
Edited by Kamidio, Feb 22 2011, 05:01 PM.
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Space Gorilla
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Yeah, can we please get back on topic?

More clichés: Extremely violent, aggressive ET races that kill and destroy everything in their sight, simply because..... they like doing it. No explanations given for the behavior.
Edited by Space Gorilla, Feb 23 2011, 08:17 AM.
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T.Neo
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Arguing? I thought that was a pretty constructive discussion...

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More clichés: Extremely violent, aggressive ET races that kill and destroy everything in their sight, simply because..... they like doing it. No explanations given for the behavior.


Indeed. I can't stand that one. :|
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Holben
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T.Neo
Feb 22 2011, 04:52 PM
Ok... I'm still trying to figure out how and how well these little guys are going to "hear" those vibrations...
You know how scorpions hear, with those little flappy things from their sides? Maybe, like that.
The receiving cross-section will be low, but...
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What? They're not that slow, the body uses chemicals to communicate all the time... it might not be practical for some applications, but it would be useful for most.
If they aren't slow, pray tell me why we have nerves.
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If you want syndactyly, sure.
Not evryone in medieval villages had fused fingers, if anyone...
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I just hate your iffy notion of the concept of "settlement". :P
better suggestions are always appreciated.
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Yes. That includes the drills that drill for OIL.
"A robot is a virtual or mechanical artificial agent." I know lots of drills guided by computers, etc.
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But there aren't enough bombs and the fallout decays over time!
that's why it's going to happen in the future, when we have better bombs.
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Or surface settlements covered with dirt? Or both?
Waste of dirt. :P
The more ceiling, the better. So not just a thin dusting.
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You aren't shielding against gamma rays. :rolleyes:
No-one told me that! :glare:
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You don't use lead, that can actually lead to higher radiation doses (particles can spall off the material when radiation hits it, creating more radiation).
What you want to use is something that has a high hydrogen content, such as polyethylene plastic, which makes for better shielding against charged particle radiation (which is mostly what you face on the surface of a planet- solar protons and such).
Electromagnetic fields are good at stopping solar winds.
Oh wait, they're heavy.
how about a spacesuit? :|
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What kind of surface life? In a vacuum, you can't have surface life, because you can't have liquid water. And UV radiation and such will sterilise the soil.
It's not a vacuum, it has a CO2 atmosphere. :)
The life will only be like rock varnish, y'know! Sitting, doing nothing, on rocks.




@Fakey- :|
@Orionite- Yes!
Though maybe they might want to kill us, as an efficient way of reducing risks to themselves, if we open contact badly.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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T.Neo
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You know how scorpions hear, with those little flappy things from their sides? Maybe, like that.
The receiving cross-section will be low, but...


These aren't scorpions. For one, they're many times smaller...

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If they aren't slow, pray tell me why we have nerves.


Nerves are for controlling limbs and body responses and whatnot. Cell chemistry and stuff like that is dictated by hormones, which direct the body in a way which might be useful- for some applications - involving nanoscale robots.

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Not evryone in medieval villages had fused fingers, if anyone...


Right, but that's also because genes were coming and going regularly... mind you, if that's the story with this settlement too, such a population size could indeed work.

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"A robot is a virtual or mechanical artificial agent." I know lots of drills guided by computers, etc.


Fair enough. I thought you were implying humanoid machines with drills on their heads, or something...

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that's why it's going to happen in the future, when we have better bombs.


If anything the future is going to lead to smaller, cleaner, smarter bombs, and also smaller stockpiles...

A small, well targetted bomb can still be highly destructive, and the cleaner a weapon is, the better, all round.

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Waste of dirt.
The more ceiling, the better. So not just a thin dusting.


Yes. The dirt layer would be on the order of a meter or more.

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Electromagnetic fields are good at stopping solar winds.
Oh wait, they're heavy.
how about a spacesuit?


They are? Not as much as several centimeters of polyethylene...

What about a spacesuit? You wouldn't spend all your time outside... the shielding in the suit would reduce radiation dosage, but not effectively eliminate it.

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It's not a vacuum, it has a CO2 atmosphere.
The life will only be like rock varnish, y'know! Sitting, doing nothing, on rocks.


Yes, but... how thick is the CO2 atmosphere? Clearly thick enough for liquid water to exist on the surface?

Obviously then there is liquid water on the surface? Why haven't photosynthesisers converted at least part of the atmosphere to oxygen yet? If there is such a substantial atmosphere and hydrosphere, why aren't people terraforming the place? It's a terraforming dream!
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Holben
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T.Neo
Feb 23 2011, 03:56 PM
These aren't scorpions. For one, they're many times smaller...



They can still use the concept. :P
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Nerves are for controlling limbs and body responses and whatnot. Cell chemistry and stuff like that is dictated by hormones, which direct the body in a way which might be useful- for some applications - involving nanoscale robots.
Nerves are for responses which need to be made immediately.
And reactions will need to be made immediately in surgery!
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Right, but that's also because genes were coming and going regularly... mind you, if that's the story with this settlement too, such a population size could indeed work.
Were they, though? Most peasant marriages, the couple had known each other from childhood.
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Fair enough. I thought you were implying humanoid machines with drills on their heads, or something...
:whatever: Surely you know me better than that? :P
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If anything the future is going to lead to smaller, cleaner, smarter bombs, and also smaller stockpiles...
Hm. But we could make bigger bombs, given reason.
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Yes. The dirt layer would be on the order of a meter or more.
:glare:
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They are? Not as much as several centimeters of polyethylene...
The magnet you have to carry around is kilograms, i dunno.
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Yes, but... how thick is the CO2 atmosphere? Clearly thick enough for liquid water to exist on the surface?
'bout 0.8 bars.
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Obviously then there is liquid water on the surface? Why haven't photosynthesisers converted at least part of the atmosphere to oxygen yet? If there is such a substantial atmosphere and hydrosphere, why aren't people terraforming the place? It's a terraforming dream!
There is very little surface water- it's a very arid planet.
And photosynthesisers... well, there isn't much in the way of carbon or minerals out there.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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T.Neo
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They can still use the concept.


Yes but that doesn't stop it from having potential physics issues, of course.

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Nerves are for responses which need to be made immediately.
And reactions will need to be made immediately in surgery!


Since when are the nanobots doing surgery? :confused:

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Were they, though? Most peasant marriages, the couple had known each other from childhood.


Emphasis on most. Also, couples could have entered or left the villages after becoming married.

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Surely you know me better than that?


Yes, well, uh... :ermm:

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Hm. But we could make bigger bombs, given reason.


Problem is: I'm finding it pretty hard to find a reason. ;)

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The magnet you have to carry around is kilograms, i dunno.


Maybe impractical in a suit, but on a spacecraft it makes a whole huge amount of sense.

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'bout 0.8 bars.


Great scott! You know what? People can survive on this planet unaided! Just a breathing mask and a cooling suit will do fine!

Perfect target for terraforming... perfect, perfect...

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There is very little surface water- it's a very arid planet.
And photosynthesisers... well, there isn't much in the way of carbon or minerals out there.


Even if a relatively very small amount of water was present, there will be large bodies of water on the planet... look at Tharn.

The seas and lakes might be shallow, but flat plains tend to stretch them out a lot.

Also, even though there isn't a lot of material to exploit, doesn't mean that there isn't some material to exploit- the rock-dwelling scum could be photosynthetic, for example.
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Holben
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T.Neo
Feb 23 2011, 04:52 PM
Yes but that doesn't stop it from having potential physics issues, of course.
Name 'em. ;)


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Since when are the nanobots doing surgery? :confused:
Since a few posts ago! That was the proposed use.
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Emphasis on most. Also, couples could have entered or left the villages after becoming married.
Not usually... the peasant were almost tied to their land.
They were tied to their land later.
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Yes, well, uh... :ermm:
:angry:
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Problem is: I'm finding it pretty hard to find a reason. ;)
That's the reason i didn't put a reason down. :r
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Maybe impractical in a suit, but on a spacecraft it makes a whole huge amount of sense.
it's strange, i've said that before elsewhere.
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Great scott! You know what? People can survive on this planet unaided! Just a breathing mask and a cooling suit will do fine!
yes, with the no-oxygen...
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Even if a relatively very small amount of water was present, there will be large bodies of water on the planet... look at Tharn.
the water's not on teh surface alright
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Also, even though there isn't a lot of material to exploit, doesn't mean that there isn't some material to exploit- the rock-dwelling scum could be photosynthetic, for example.
they aren't alright
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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T.Neo
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Name 'em.


Primarily the fact that stuff can act differently at different scales...

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Since a few posts ago! That was the proposed use.


But... when cells encourage muscle growth, or they reshape my bones, they aren't performing surgery. It's both less intrusive and more effective to work that way, on a cellular level.

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Not usually... the peasant were almost tied to their land.
They were tied to their land later.


That doesn't mean people could have come and gone. Even a small exchange could be enough to keep a colony going, with around 500-1000 people.

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it's strange, i've said that before elsewhere.


No, really... providing you have a good enough power source, it effectively eliminates the shielding issue for spacecraft... which is very important.

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yes, with the no-oxygen...


That's why you have a breathing mask, Holben. To provide the oxygen. :rolleyes:

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the water's not on teh surface alright


Why the hell not? Is this a Star Wars single biome planet or something?

I mean, some of the water can drain into some sort of underground basin made of porous rock, but not all of it... you will *always* have water on the surface.

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they aren't alright


Why not? Any plausible reason for it? Other than "I say so!"?
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Holben
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T.Neo
Feb 24 2011, 12:50 PM
Primarily the fact that stuff can act differently at different scales...
No, specifically for this situation!

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But... when cells encourage muscle growth, or they reshape my bones, they aren't performing surgery. It's both less intrusive and more effective to work that way, on a cellular level.
"Surgery is an ancient medical specialty that uses operative manual and instrumental techniques on a patient to investigate and/or treat a pathological condition such as disease or injury, [or] to help improve bodily function or appearance"
Nanobots are surgical.
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That doesn't mean people could have come and gone. Even a small exchange could be enough to keep a colony going, with around 500-1000 people.
But my point was, people didn't come and go often at all!
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No, really... providing you have a good enough power source, it effectively eliminates the shielding issue for spacecraft... which is very important.
I know you were being serious, i've advertised them before here.
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That's why you have a breathing mask, Holben. To provide the oxygen. :rolleyes:
Then, when it runs out, you die!
Anyway, i personally don't want to walk around in a breathing mask and ugly suit. :sleepy:
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Why the hell not? Is this a Star Wars single biome planet or something?
it's all in the atmosphere or under the surface. Crust composition.
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I mean, some of the water can drain into some sort of underground basin made of porous rock, but not all of it... you will *always* have water on the surface.
If you only have, say, a Mediterranean of water on the planet...
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Why not? Any plausible reason for it? Other than "I say so!"?
No.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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T.Neo
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No, specifically for this situation!


I'm not sure what you mean.

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"Surgery is an ancient medical specialty that uses operative manual and instrumental techniques on a patient to investigate and/or treat a pathological condition such as disease or injury, [or] to help improve bodily function or appearance"
Nanobots are surgical.


Yes, but they are not microscalpels.

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But my point was, people didn't come and go often at all!


Yeah, I dunno. My point is that maybe people don't have to come and go that often, even a small new injection of genetic material could matter.

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Then, when it runs out, you die!
Anyway, i personally don't want to walk around in a breathing mask and ugly suit.


Yes. Just like during any EVA, or even diving underwater. Shocking, really... I suppose that's why nobody goes diving anymore... :rolleyes:

And it doesn't have to be an ugly suit. It can actually be quite slimming. Or you can even brave the 50 degree temperatures, if you want to...

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it's all in the atmosphere or under the surface. Crust composition.


Yeah, sorry... won't work. There might be large swaths of the crust that suck up water, but there will be other regions where water collects at the surface. Plus, underground aquifers can always become saturated, which will likely happen if they are in high precipitation areas.

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If you only have, say, a Mediterranean of water on the planet...


I think that's entirely plausible. Again, look at Tharn... it has something ridiculous like 0.1% Earth's water, but still has quite large areas of water spread over the planet.

It's all about topography.

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No.


Oh. :(

In that case, your rock scum-plantschemotrophs suck. :P
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Holben
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T.Neo
Feb 24 2011, 03:40 PM
I'm not sure what you mean.




As in- why won't vibration detecting extensions to the 'bot be able to pick up ultrasound?

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Yes, but they are not microscalpels.
That has nothing to do with it!

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eah, I dunno. My point is that maybe people don't have to come and go that often, even a small new injection of genetic material could matter.
Fine, but you dunno. :P
Trust me, it doesn't have to be 10,000 people.

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Yes. Just like during any EVA, or even diving underwater. Shocking, really... I suppose that's why nobody goes diving anymore... :rolleyes:
Yeah! Wait...

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And it doesn't have to be an ugly suit. It can actually be quite slimming. Or you can even brave the 50 degree temperatures, if you want to...
Can it now.
It has big pipes in it.

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Yeah, sorry... won't work. There might be large swaths of the crust that suck up water, but there will be other regions where water collects at the surface. Plus, underground aquifers can always become saturated, which will likely happen if they are in high precipitation areas.
It will work- because the crust is of regular composition.
And the rock does not lie on impermeable bedrock- aquifers do not accumulate easy.

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I think that's entirely plausible. Again, look at Tharn... it has something ridiculous like 0.1% Earth's water, but still has quite large areas of water spread over the planet.
Tharn isn't real...

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In that case, your rock scum-plantschemotrophs suck. :P
Yeah? Well they don't care what you think! :P
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Space Gorilla
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Indeed. I can't stand that one. :|


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@Orionite- Yes!
Though maybe they might want to kill us, as an efficient way of reducing risks to themselves, if we open contact badly.


That's true Holben, but you just gave a, more or less, "rational" explanation (at least in terms of their psychology/nature) as to why they would do such a thing. So its still some kind of explanation, with some 'logic' behind it.

I mean the really nasty, awful, PMS-analogue pissed, planet-destroying ET races that Hollywood serves us on the platter very often. For example, I still didn't get the reason those aliens in 'Skyline' attacked humanity (although I really liked the ET concepts). I read the synopsis, no reason given. Out of frustration I didn't even went to see the movie.

I'm glad we all agree on this Neo, Holben. But I think if you have found a topic for discussion, those posts should be mved to someplace else. I think we have strayed enough off topic. One of the reasons Many stopped coming here, including Emperyon was that people derailed topics like this.

Can you ask the mods to make a topic for you?
Edited by Space Gorilla, Feb 24 2011, 04:11 PM.
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T.Neo
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Tharn isn't real...


Yeah, that's something it has in common with your... desert... planet... thing.

The thing they don't have in common, though, is the fact that Tharn seems to make sense but your contrived world does not.

:r
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