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| Two-way GI Tract; Possible or ridiculous? Why? | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 19 2011, 05:04 PM (967 Views) | |
| Empyreon | Jan 19 2011, 05:04 PM Post #1 |
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Are you plausible?
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I have an idea for a particular bauplan, but it begins with a primitive creature with a mouth at each end and digestion occurring in both directions. This isn't a gastrovascular cavity, where food and waste go in and out of the same orifice, but two ingesting orifices at either end and waste either exiting from the skin, from the orifice at the other end, or from a point somewhere in the middle. I'm wondering if this seems like a plausible system, with food coming in from both directions. Thoughts? |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| Ddraig Goch | Jan 19 2011, 05:13 PM Post #2 |
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Ar hyd y nos
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Perhaps if the original adaptation occurred in a worm-like animal that buried itself, and then used the mouths at either end of its body to eat different foods from different areas of seabed where its head (either one) popped out? I'm not really sure. I think the bauplan could work, in theory, I'm just not sure how it would evolve in the first place. |
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| Empyreon | Jan 19 2011, 05:23 PM Post #3 |
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Are you plausible?
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I was thinking, initially, of something akin to a leech, with sucker-like mouths on each end that simultaneously scrapes up algae while clinging to the surface. |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| Jasonguppy | Jan 19 2011, 06:28 PM Post #4 |
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Cardinal
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cool |
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I do art sometimes. "if you want green eat a salad" Projects: Amammalia: A strange place where mammals didn't make it and the land is, once again, dominated by archosaurs. Oceanus: An endless sea dotted with islands, reefs, and black holes. Literally endless, literal black holes. ❤️❤️~I'm not a boy~❤️❤️ | |
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| colddigger | Jan 19 2011, 06:59 PM Post #5 |
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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It may end up being rather difficult to keep that kind of digestive tract, if the two mouths are connected and waste is coughed up by one, the other, or both then it would eventually specialize into one mouth one anus like we are, since that would prevent waste and food from mixing and allow the parts to specialize further due to this lack of mixing. I suggest either having them separate and have dual gastrovascular cavities or have all waste removed by a different system or a third orifice (or possibly multiple others). |
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Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| Empyreon | Jan 19 2011, 10:31 PM Post #6 |
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Are you plausible?
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Good points. Do you think that two independent tracts would be more likely? Two mouths leading to two tracts and two distinct anuses? Or would it make more sense to just specialize one and the other? I'm okay with either so long as I can justify the worm creatures 'walking' by using these sucker mouths as feet and this general bauplan being robust enough to radiate into a diverse clade. |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| Holben | Jan 20 2011, 03:11 PM Post #7 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Perhaps, if you do a gastropod and have the tract twist during development? |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| Empyreon | Jan 20 2011, 03:15 PM Post #8 |
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Are you plausible?
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What do you mean? |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| Holben | Jan 20 2011, 03:19 PM Post #9 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_%28gastropod%29 That. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| colddigger | Jan 20 2011, 03:39 PM Post #10 |
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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Two completely separate digestive tracts seems acceptable if the food must be eaten, digested, and excreted quickly... dividing up the work between multiple organs rather than having one overworked system. My opinion is that you should have them lead to a single anus and excretion system in the center, at least for the ancestral organism. This could even allow for two semi-separate digestive tracts specialized for different foods. |
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Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| Holben | Jan 20 2011, 03:42 PM Post #11 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Just feel i shoudl clarify- the torsion seperates an ancestral tract going through the body, so they are cut off from each other. You can out them at any angle you want to each other in this scenario. If the waste must go through the skin, perhaps a kind of lymph system from the tracts to the surface. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| colddigger | Jan 20 2011, 04:20 PM Post #12 |
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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Ooo, now that's an interesting idea... One thing I wonder about with skin excretion is how solid waste is to be removed, I suppose it could always just be coughed up between eating... |
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Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| Holben | Jan 20 2011, 04:21 PM Post #13 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Big indigestibles? Other than pellets etc., am also at a loss. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| colddigger | Jan 20 2011, 04:38 PM Post #14 |
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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Maybe it could just be collected within the organism over it's lifetime, and when something bites into it the predator gets a mouthful of nasty. Along with that it could have symbionts living in this ever expanding storage that provides it with more food after breaking down the waste. |
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Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| Empyreon | Jan 20 2011, 05:45 PM Post #15 |
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Are you plausible?
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I like that. If energy is needed quickly, or the metabolism is particularly high, then the more food inside and processing the better.
Yeah, I was leaning toward that as well. Sharing an anus allows the system to minimize at least somewhat, which is ideal for biodiversity. And I like the specialized tracts, it's an interesting path to omnivory. One concern I have is that a herbivorous tract requires more length, and hence more space. Will that throw the body out of balance?
I'm afraid I don't follow. What is an ancestral tract? And what do you mean by angles?
I only imagine waste being expelled through the skin with small, primitive clades. Larger clades will have to be more complex. But some species could retain traits such at pellets from primitive ancestors.
That may solve the problem of a too long herbivore gut, too! One thing I've also considered is that the "standing arch" of the bauplan means that the GI tract extends through the limbs of the body. I see two main problems with this: - Sharing space like that may be too complex for such creatures to thrive and radiate. It all works fine when the creature is a primitive leech creature, but imagine an esophagus running through your shin, and a stomach hugging your femur. I might have to make radiated terrestrial bauplans exoskeletal... - Food will have to go up said GI tract. Fighting gravity might be a problem, and if the creature relaxes its esophageal muscles then everything might come tumbling back out. To prevent this I'm thinking of a spiraling series of crops to hold food before being squeezed up to the next one, kind of like a biological archimedes screw. Thoughts? Better ideas? |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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