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| Rocket Beetles | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 6 2010, 02:54 AM (1,110 Views) | |
| Spugpow | Dec 6 2010, 02:54 AM Post #1 |
Prime Specimen
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I expect this to be a short topic, but I just want to get the idea out there... Imagine in the future the descendants of bombardier beetles have taken to the air in earnest once more, soaring on fixed wing cases and propelled at high speed by the explosive reaction of hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide in rear-pointing glands. These aerial hunters oust dragonflies as the dominant consumers of insects on the wing, and undergo an adaptive radiation; By (say) 20 million years in the future, "rocket beetles" range from tiny northern gnat-catchers to bird-hunting juggernauts from the tropics. There are problems to be worked out in this concept, I know. Would the beetles be propelled by chemical reactions all the time, or just use them for bursts of speed? It would definitely be more interesting (and cooler  ) if the former were true, but it might be implausible. Also, would greater speed give the beetles an edge when it came to hunting flying insects? Manuverability might be more important. Higher speed would definitely give rocket beetles an edge when escaping birds, and might allow them to migrate long distances in search of food.
Edited by Spugpow, Dec 6 2010, 02:55 AM.
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| Pando | Dec 6 2010, 03:05 AM Post #2 |
Obey or I'll send you to the moon
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There is a problem with the "rockets". They would scare prey away. |
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| Adman | Dec 6 2010, 03:22 AM Post #3 |
Totally not lamna
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I think that they would attack like great whites, from below. Jeez 
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Projects and concepts that I have stewing around Extended Pleistocene- An alternate future where man died out, and the megafauna would continue to thrive (may or may not include a bit about certain future sapients) Inverted World- An alternate timeline where an asteroid hit during the Barremian, causing an extinction event before the Maastrichtian. Dinosaurs, pterosaurs, and notosuchians make it to the present, along with a host of other animals. Badania- Alien planet that has life at a devonian stage of development, except it exists in the present day. Ido- Alien world where hoppers (derived flightless ballonts) and mouthpart-legged beasts are prevalent. Leto- Life on a moon orbiting a gas giant with an erratic orbit; experiences extremes of hot and cold. The Park- ??? Deeper Impact- a world where the K-Pg extinction wipes out crocodilians, mammals, and birds; squamates, choristoderes, and turtles inherit the earth. World of Equal Opportunity- alternate history where denisovans come across Beringia and interact with native fauna. Much of the Pleistocene fauna survives, and the modern humans that end up crossing into North America do not overhunt the existing animals. 10,000 years later, civilizations exist that are on par with European and Asian societies. The Ditch- Nothing is what if seems.. | |
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| Spugpow | Dec 6 2010, 03:26 AM Post #4 |
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Prime Specimen
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I don't think so. Mosquitos and the like aren't scared away by the loud thrumming produced by dragonflies, and I doubt that they'd be able to escape even if they were. Early detection by prey would be an acceptable trade off for vastly increased speed, especially if the rocket could be turned off for the initial approach. Edit: Good point Admantus, the bird hunting species would probably come screaming out of the understory and hit their prey in midflight from underneath like a missile  .Double Edit: or maybe "loudly farting" out of the understory would be more accurate, considering the sounds those mini jet engines tend to make... Edited by Spugpow, Dec 6 2010, 03:31 AM.
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| Adman | Dec 6 2010, 03:33 AM Post #5 |
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Totally not lamna
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Would the beetle, after overwhelming it's prey, need to kill it quickly? I would think that the impact of the speed and powerful jaws would kill the fragile bird. |
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Projects and concepts that I have stewing around Extended Pleistocene- An alternate future where man died out, and the megafauna would continue to thrive (may or may not include a bit about certain future sapients) Inverted World- An alternate timeline where an asteroid hit during the Barremian, causing an extinction event before the Maastrichtian. Dinosaurs, pterosaurs, and notosuchians make it to the present, along with a host of other animals. Badania- Alien planet that has life at a devonian stage of development, except it exists in the present day. Ido- Alien world where hoppers (derived flightless ballonts) and mouthpart-legged beasts are prevalent. Leto- Life on a moon orbiting a gas giant with an erratic orbit; experiences extremes of hot and cold. The Park- ??? Deeper Impact- a world where the K-Pg extinction wipes out crocodilians, mammals, and birds; squamates, choristoderes, and turtles inherit the earth. World of Equal Opportunity- alternate history where denisovans come across Beringia and interact with native fauna. Much of the Pleistocene fauna survives, and the modern humans that end up crossing into North America do not overhunt the existing animals. 10,000 years later, civilizations exist that are on par with European and Asian societies. The Ditch- Nothing is what if seems.. | |
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| Spugpow | Dec 6 2010, 03:39 AM Post #6 |
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Prime Specimen
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Oh yeah, certainly. A big armored beetle hitting a soft squishy bird at high speed would cause some major damage. Insect hunting species would probably develop long thin jaws to catch bugs on the wing, since long jaws seem to be a commonly occuring feature in ground beetles. |
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| Adman | Dec 6 2010, 04:25 AM Post #7 |
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Totally not lamna
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Yea, you're right. |
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Projects and concepts that I have stewing around Extended Pleistocene- An alternate future where man died out, and the megafauna would continue to thrive (may or may not include a bit about certain future sapients) Inverted World- An alternate timeline where an asteroid hit during the Barremian, causing an extinction event before the Maastrichtian. Dinosaurs, pterosaurs, and notosuchians make it to the present, along with a host of other animals. Badania- Alien planet that has life at a devonian stage of development, except it exists in the present day. Ido- Alien world where hoppers (derived flightless ballonts) and mouthpart-legged beasts are prevalent. Leto- Life on a moon orbiting a gas giant with an erratic orbit; experiences extremes of hot and cold. The Park- ??? Deeper Impact- a world where the K-Pg extinction wipes out crocodilians, mammals, and birds; squamates, choristoderes, and turtles inherit the earth. World of Equal Opportunity- alternate history where denisovans come across Beringia and interact with native fauna. Much of the Pleistocene fauna survives, and the modern humans that end up crossing into North America do not overhunt the existing animals. 10,000 years later, civilizations exist that are on par with European and Asian societies. The Ditch- Nothing is what if seems.. | |
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| MitchBeard | Dec 6 2010, 04:33 AM Post #8 |
proud gondwanan
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Is the production the these chemicals efficient enough to warrant the beetles using them for flight though? Seems like something that wouldn't be easy to produce, or in large enough quantities for a very sustained flight... |
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| Kamidio | Dec 6 2010, 06:36 AM Post #9 |
The Game Master of the SSU:NC
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I'd say they'd evolve better flight and use the explosion for hunting. |
SSU:NC - Finding a new home. Quotes WAA
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| urufumarukai | Dec 6 2010, 10:37 AM Post #10 |
Hitler is my spirit animal
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But can the chemicals actually get them into the air, if not could they use it to jump similarly to a grasshopper. |
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Henry you dick! Mr. Hands "Am I boring? Depends, do you like watching documentaries about 19th and 18th century warfare, having complicated feelings about bismark and crying over the film of winston churchill putting flowers on FDR's grave. If so then I'm so fucking boring. " | |
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| Adman | Dec 6 2010, 03:52 PM Post #11 |
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Totally not lamna
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I would say that the beetle would climb a tree where the prey is, and when it are close enough, it rocket and hit the bird, where the beetle would proceed to cause massive blood loss and quick death with powerful bites from the mandibles |
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Projects and concepts that I have stewing around Extended Pleistocene- An alternate future where man died out, and the megafauna would continue to thrive (may or may not include a bit about certain future sapients) Inverted World- An alternate timeline where an asteroid hit during the Barremian, causing an extinction event before the Maastrichtian. Dinosaurs, pterosaurs, and notosuchians make it to the present, along with a host of other animals. Badania- Alien planet that has life at a devonian stage of development, except it exists in the present day. Ido- Alien world where hoppers (derived flightless ballonts) and mouthpart-legged beasts are prevalent. Leto- Life on a moon orbiting a gas giant with an erratic orbit; experiences extremes of hot and cold. The Park- ??? Deeper Impact- a world where the K-Pg extinction wipes out crocodilians, mammals, and birds; squamates, choristoderes, and turtles inherit the earth. World of Equal Opportunity- alternate history where denisovans come across Beringia and interact with native fauna. Much of the Pleistocene fauna survives, and the modern humans that end up crossing into North America do not overhunt the existing animals. 10,000 years later, civilizations exist that are on par with European and Asian societies. The Ditch- Nothing is what if seems.. | |
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| Kamidio | Dec 6 2010, 03:56 PM Post #12 |
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The Game Master of the SSU:NC
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I still like the idea of an organic flamethrower. |
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SSU:NC - Finding a new home. Quotes WAA
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| T.Neo | Dec 6 2010, 04:36 PM Post #13 |
Translunar injection: TLI
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There are three problems I forsee: 1. The organism can only make so much of this chemical. This is going to tax it's metabolism and leave it vulnerable. 2. The "combustion chamber" will have bad trouble holding up to the reaction continuously. The organism(s) already pulse "combustion" at a rate of 500 times per second, and that only lasts for a fraction of a second. It's a problem inherent in any rocket; you need to cool the engine down, or else you have serious problems- unfortunately, beetles can't evolve cryogenic piping to cool themselves. 3. The laws of rocket propulsion still apply. Unfortunately a bombardier beetle's deterrent spray stuff makes for a pretty poor rocket... it is relatively low temperature and low velocity. The flow is not supersonic and I doubt that could even be achieved. That all means that it would have a low exhaust velocity. In rocketry terms, the velocity of particles in the exhaust is like gas mileage; the higher the exhaust velocity, the longer you can keep burning at a certain thrust from a set fuel supply. The space shuttle's main engines, which use hydrogen for fuel and oxygen for oxidiser, have an exhaust velocity of about 4400 m/s. The shuttle's boosters, which are solid-fueled, have an exhaust velocity of about 2600 m/s. A nitrogen cold-gas thruster, of the kind that might see use as an orientation thruster on a satellite, has an exhaust velocity of around 740 m/s. And that is just pressurised nitrogen. I be surprised if bombardier beetle flame-y stuff had an exit velocity of 100 m/s. It is probably a great deal lower than that. And since a bombardier beetle is going to have a propellant-mass ratio lower than 1, that means you have only a very small velocity change, for a huge amount of effort. I doubt such a system would evolve. There are other ways to achieve this that are many times better and easier. |
| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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| Jasonguppy | Dec 6 2010, 04:43 PM Post #14 |
Cardinal
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what other ways are u talking about? |
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I do art sometimes. "if you want green eat a salad" Projects: Amammalia: A strange place where mammals didn't make it and the land is, once again, dominated by archosaurs. Oceanus: An endless sea dotted with islands, reefs, and black holes. Literally endless, literal black holes. ❤️❤️~I'm not a boy~❤️❤️ | |
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| TheCoon | Dec 6 2010, 05:02 PM Post #15 |
Happy merry Jesusmas inhabitants of the Spec Forums!
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I like the idea, but what if instead of being rocket-like, they used the propultion for some kind of "double jump" in midair. This is for prey that are to fast for the beetle, so they wouldn't use it all the time. Just when needed. |
Greetings young life form! Procyon Lotor at your service.
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