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Time Travel and the Alien Grey; We are the Grey
Topic Started: Nov 15 2010, 02:56 AM (3,924 Views)
skwirlinator
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I don't believe UFOs are extraterrestrial visitors from another part of the galaxy. I believe they are us. Well, at least the descriptions assigned to the Alien Greys.

Physics of interstellar travel aside, I just don't believe Earth would be a stop on any alien travel manifest.
But...humor me a bit...Time traveling future humans might have a reason to visit us. Lets not get hung up on the Time Travel physics. I am more interesting in exploring what conditions could cause humans to evolve into a Grey.

What is a Grey?
Posted Image

"Wiki"
 
According to English reproductive biologist Jack Cohen, the typical image of a Grey, given that it would have evolved on a world with different environmental and ecological conditions from Earth, is too physiologically similar to a human to be credible as a representation of an alien. Their physical structure has been sometimes viewed as supporting the Panspermia theory of origins, although the "parallel evolution" required is not scientifically plausible. The "parallel evolution" concept, utilized as a plot device by Star Trek writers Gene Roddenberry and Gene Coon and referred to as "Hodgkins Law of Parallel Planet Development". However, even this fictional theory does not explain such remarkable Grey-human similarities as the facial geometry, the apparent sternal-xiphoidal process, the evident pectoral-trapezial architecture, and the number of toes per foot.[14]

One theory that could explain such seemingly impossible coincidences is the idea that extraterrestrial beings had some influence on the evolution of life on Earth in the distant past, specifically that extraterrestrials were directly involved in the evolution of primates, including humans. This was supposedly done by genetic engineering, cross-breeding, or a combination of both. This idea, regarded as nonsense by the mainstream science community, first gained widespread exposure with the 1968 publication of Chariots of the Gods? by Erich von Däniken and has since been the source of much controversy, and has inspired numerous other books with various related theories.

Proponents of this theory of alien genetic/evolutionary intervention on Earth argue that if the Greys (or similar beings) were performing genetic manipulations and/or experiments with pre-human life forms on Earth, then it would be logical, and perhaps almost expected, that these alleged aliens may have attempted to influence the evolution of life forms here in a direction consistent with their own genetic makeup, and similar to their own physiology and general physical structure, since genetically that is what they would presumably be most familiar with.

Since there is no evidence of what types of life or physiology might evolve on other habitable planets, no way to accurately gauge the likelihood or unlikelihood of coincidences in evolution on two separate planets, and no conclusive evidence of any alleged past extraterrestrial genetic manipulation in our own evolution, the debate over the evolutionary feasibility of the Greys (or any other bipedal, humanoid extraterrestrial species) is ultimately nothing more than speculation on both sides.


This speculates panspermia or purposeful seeding of Earth but what if that is backward thinking. What if these lifeforms are our descendants from the far future.
I mean just look at their depictions:
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

What changes would have to occur to mutate a human being to look like that? I think it could happen.
Perhaps we are dying out and they somehow mastered time travel and have come back for fresh DNA or something.

Looking at the top picture
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Alienigena.jpg/220px-Alienigena.jpg
That thing looks all too human. It has bilateral symmetry. The skeletal structure looks like ours, there are changes in some features but they are all in the right places.

If our brains were to grow larger wouldn't the extra mass form at the back of our heads? Just thinking of balance and symmetry. Feel the back of your head and you will notice your spine is at the back side of your skull. If mass increased wouldn't it try to balance over its pivot? LOL (I know)

Ok this is a push because we are looking at a version far removed from us with no gradual links between us and them.

The Eyes
What conditions could cause Our eyes to become like those? Less light? Different light spectrum? Staring too long at a monitor? The sockets are slightly different but they are still eyes and they are specialized.

Small Nose
Our noses are already smaller than our ancestors. Perhaps our noses will continue to diminish over time. We buy our food prepackaged and processed for the most part now. We don't run from prey and we are usually confined to a conditioned environment.

Small Mouth
Perhaps in the future we develop food pastes or soylent green or something that requires less work to consume. In the far future what would we be eating? What other changes could cause our mouths and noses to reduce? Perhaps diet has something to do with the nose reduction as well?

Upper Body Mass
Overall body size too. Imagine centuries of being confined in a machine manipulating levers and jot sticks. Perhaps foot pedals as well. Less energy is being used to create work. Machines do all heavy work and all we do is control the machines. Our diet has diminished and we are secluded away from natural sunlight.

I'm gunna leave this here. I am looking to get you all to help me explore this more. I really believe the Alien Grey is a time traveler from our own future.

I wish to explore the changes to our planet that could cause us to be this finished product. Instead of creating a being as a finished product, lets take the finished product and figure out how it got that way.
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

I saw that too. The guy had a chip placed in his brain and he was able to place a call on a telephone that he didn't even touch.
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skwirlinator
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urufumarukai
Nov 15 2010, 11:08 PM
Canis Lupis
Nov 15 2010, 10:28 PM
Who says it's biological (the telepathy, I mean)?

Technically, I'm communicating with you via telepathy right now. Just technological telepathy.

All this cellular and computer technology, taken to its extreme, could easily evolve into a computer chip that, when inserted into the base of the brain, could effectively cause telepathy to arise.
Funny that you mention that. I read an article and saw some videos of scientists experimemting with placing computer chips in quadraplegics to have them control computers and/or robotic limbs just by thinking it. It's not outrageous to say the project could expand to comunication.
Exactly, and this little exercise presumes the alien Greys are from a vastly far future Earth where time travel has been mastered. So far in the future our base genetic code has been altered to that. Any technology that is current today could have expanded far beyond our current concepts.

Science has also already developed artificial senses. It's in the early stages but the blind can see and the deaf can hear with augmentation. We must not forget The Law of Accelerating Return which states
Quote:
 
The Law of Accelerating Returns
March 7, 2001 by Ray Kurzweil

An analysis of the history of technology shows that technological change is exponential, contrary to the common-sense “intuitive linear” view. So we won’t experience 100 years of progress in the 21st century — it will be more like 20,000 years of progress (at today’s rate). The “returns,” such as chip speed and cost-effectiveness, also increase exponentially. There’s even exponential growth in the rate of exponential growth. Within a few decades, machine intelligence will surpass human intelligence, leading to The Singularity — technological change so rapid and profound it represents a rupture in the fabric of human history. The implications include the merger of biological and nonbiological intelligence, immortal software-based humans, and ultra-high levels of intelligence that expand outward in the universe at the speed of light.…

Published on KurzweilAI.net March 7, 2001.

There is more at the link - Interesting reading to be sure.

Then there is Moore's Law that contradicts the chip speed growth in the above quote
Quote:
 
The complexity for minimum component costs has increased at a rate of roughly a factor of two per year... Certainly over the short term this rate can be expected to continue, if not to increase. Over the longer term, the rate of increase is a bit more uncertain, although there is no reason to believe it will not remain nearly constant for at least 10 years. That means by 1975, the number of components per integrated circuit for minimum cost will be 65,000. I believe that such a large circuit can be built on a single wafer
Quote:
 
Kurzweil speculates that it is likely that some new type of technology (possibly optical or quantum computers) will replace current integrated-circuit technology, and that Moore's Law will hold true long after 2020.
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Flisch
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Spugpow
Nov 15 2010, 10:56 PM
A: There's no known analogue to real telepathy in any land vertebrate



Meh, the brain already emits a specific radiation. The step to evolve means to absorb that radiation and turn it into useful information is a big step, but not impossible.
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T.Neo
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Emits a specific radiation? Like, an electric field?

Good luck reading the brain remotely, without lugging around an MRI machine.

And also: hair stands up on the back of your neck, because it is a mammalian fear response. A lot of other mammals do that, they try to appear larger by puffing up their fur.

Larger eyes is one thing, but I mean, these are really big eyes. It's worth noting that those primitive aye-ayes and whatnot that have those huge eyes adapted to a nocturnal environment don't also have a gigantic human brain, or a relative brain even larger than our own.

And also: why is this stuff evolving? You don't have natural selection in civilisation, because the processes required for it are eliminated or prevented. I mean, a civilisation that is existing underground for thousands, probably millions of years, is going to face a lot of very serious problems, and if they're able to solve those on the long-term, they should be more than able to light their corridors to an extent that the citizens don't need to evolve lemur-eyes...

The same goes for the smell thing. Sure, we now get our food in packages and we don't need to hunt or gather, but there's nothing selecting against it. Indeed, there are actually things selecting for it... there are still many cases, where smell is important to humans.
And a nose is not really a total requirement for smell either... though some greys are reported without nostrils either (that however is only to be expected, due to their nature as a psychological phenomenon).

Indeed, the lack of ears makes less sense... organisms can hear without ears, but I see no reason for them to disappear.

Occam's razor must really come into the equation here, and the evidence supports the idea of these "alien abductions" being psychological, neurological and sociological, rather than physical. I don't see any evidence for "greys" being time travellers from the future...
A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.
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Flisch
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T.Neo
Nov 16 2010, 09:08 AM
Emits a specific radiation? Like, an electric field?
Nah, it was some sort of radiation, like I dunno... Alpha waves? Could it be something like that? Doesn't matter, there are machines that are able to catch that wavelength, so why shouldn't it be -THEORETICALLY- possible that in a far far distant future some organisms evolves a way to catch those wavelengths as well? :P
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T.Neo
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No, that's a neural oscillation, not radiation.

It can be detected by an ECG or something like it (and ECG-like mechanisms have been used to, among other things, allow mental control over videogames) but I don't see how it could be done over a distance or how it equates to anything like telepathy.
A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.
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Holben
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The thing you mentioned earlier- radio transmitters in the brain- works best.

Being a member of SE doesn't mean i have to entertain ideas about improbable things, just that i have to consider them and improve upon them. Plausibility is important in any science.

Oh, and i think Kurzweil is wrong.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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skwirlinator
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Quote:
 
I don't see any evidence for "greys" being time travellers from the future...

So, I guess you are done with this discussion - Thank you for the input.

Personally I don't believe in Greys, I don't believe in Extraterrestrials coming to this planet except by accident and I don't believe the UFO hype and controversy.

This was meant to be a speculation exercise on what it would take to make the Grey a time-traveling future human. I never said it was a fact finding expedition. We are supposed to be trying to 'make' the Grey the result not disprove it. LOL it was an exercise in imagination.

Note To Moderators:
You can close this topic because it has failed. Imagination and Speculation has left the building.
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Holben
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I don't think you're construing it right, exercises in imagination aren't really speculation. Speculation is taking a hypothesis and scientifically testing it.

You meant to make it plausible, right?
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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skwirlinator
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well kinda, plausible in a science fiction sorta way. Its definitely not plausible in a reality sorta way but what fun would it be to explore an evolutionary change that is predictable?

What I was expecting was a showcase of environmental changes and genetic mutation like a Jimminum Gene or a Red Tide in the sky. Plausible on the surface but just not fully plausible. Not so much scientifically accurate as scifientifically accurate. Construed Plausibility if you need a term.
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Flisch
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T.Neo
Nov 16 2010, 12:07 PM
No, that's a neural oscillation, not radiation.

It can be detected by an ECG or something like it (and ECG-like mechanisms have been used to, among other things, allow mental control over videogames) but I don't see how it could be done over a distance or how it equates to anything like telepathy.

>.>

I said far distant future.
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Holben
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Doesn't change the laws of physics... much.

The signal will still be too hard to pick up unless you're like less than a metre away.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Flisch
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*pouts*
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lamna
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What we do on this site is science, well sort of. It's more like philosophy back when it wan't farting rounds with nonsense.

Just because we find something is implausible does not mean we'd been any less productive then if we find something could work. I once looked into the possibility that non-avian dinosaurs survived the end of the Cretaceous in Antarctica and found it was implausible, but along the way I found what did live in Antarctica before it glaciated, and we've discussed that at some length here.

As for all this aura and telepathy stuff, I thought this was more of a SF than fantasy topic.
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colddigger
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"Alpha radiation from the brain" Whaaaaaat? I feel I drastically misunderstand...

I suppose organs specialized for producing and receiving said brain waves might work... but it just seems so much easier to have walky-talkies implanted and shoot out radio waves or something...
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