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Whales Everywhere! EVERYWHERE!; No fish, just cetaceans.
Topic Started: Oct 24 2010, 06:15 PM (2,099 Views)
Spugpow
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I've always thought this idea was cool: What if all the fish in the ocean were magicked away? We'd have oceans dominated by cetaceans, which would undergo explosive radiation to fill all the empty niches.

Squid and krill would would fill other niches as well, and provide food for the cetaceans.

I'm thinking that baleen could be modified to form gills, and the blowhole could become the outlet through which water passes after entering the mouth.

Here's a quick picture:
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Kamidio
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JohnFaa
Oct 25 2010, 03:11 PM
It also helps they get smarter each time such a thing happens; the last time in was the KT event, and sharks were so smart by that point that they figured out how to survive the mass extinction with most of their diversity intact anyway, with only some primitive forms like hybodontids and the larger lamniformes dying.

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It also helps they get smarter each time such a thing happens

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It also helps they get smarter each time

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they get smarter each time

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they get smarter

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they smarter

They plan on becoming the dominant species, and to get there, they'll DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! I'll take the chicken. DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! DESTROY US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!
Edited by Kamidio, Oct 25 2010, 08:38 PM.
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colddigger
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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Oh Billy, you so silly.
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Kamidio
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They're already ammassing an army.
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Spugpow
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"I think that cetaceans replacing fish is for all purposes impossible"

I'm aware of this. That's why all the fish "mysteriously disappeared!" Maybe aliens released a virus into the ocean that kills only non-mammal vertebrates, somehow. Anyways, this is mainly about seeing what cetaceans would look like as fish analogues, not how fish could become extinct while cetaceans survive.

"A bigger flaw in this is that Fish don't exist"
C'mon, we all know what fish are. Those slimy swimmy things! :)

Yeah, I know "fish" is an invalid clade. Just replace it with "all the vertebrates that never left the sea".

"If we were in position with no large sharks, but plenty of toothed whales and squid do you think the small sharks would take over the niche again before the toothed whales and squid did?"

Sharks are also dead, so any empty niches will be occupied by whales, crustaceans and squid.

"low birth rate of dolphins."

Mainly because of their lifestyle, I think. It shouldn't be too hard for little dolphins to give birth to litters.


Croc of Diamonds, please go away.
Edited by Spugpow, Oct 25 2010, 10:43 PM.
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Kamidio
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No.
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Adman
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Totally not lamna
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I think porpises could evolve fast reproduction, given their short life span.
Projects and concepts that I have stewing around
Extended Pleistocene- An alternate future where man died out, and the megafauna would continue to thrive (may or may not include a bit about certain future sapients)
Inverted World- An alternate timeline where an asteroid hit during the Barremian, causing an extinction event before the Maastrichtian. Dinosaurs, pterosaurs, and notosuchians make it to the present, along with a host of other animals.
Badania- Alien planet that has life at a devonian stage of development, except it exists in the present day.
Ido- Alien world where hoppers (derived flightless ballonts) and mouthpart-legged beasts are prevalent.
Leto- Life on a moon orbiting a gas giant with an erratic orbit; experiences extremes of hot and cold.
The Park- ???
Deeper Impact- a world where the K-Pg extinction wipes out crocodilians, mammals, and birds; squamates, choristoderes, and turtles inherit the earth.
World of Equal Opportunity- alternate history where denisovans come across Beringia and interact with native fauna. Much of the Pleistocene fauna survives, and the modern humans that end up crossing into North America do not overhunt the existing animals. 10,000 years later, civilizations exist that are on par with European and Asian societies.
The Ditch- Nothing is what if seems..
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Spugpow
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What do you make of the bottom dweller? He's got a throat pouch he can expand to suck in prey. Does that sound plausible?

Also, how much surface area do the gills need to have in order to power a medium-sized whale?
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Adman
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Totally not lamna
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Solution for those who don't want to whine. THEY ABSORB OXYGEN THROUGH THEIR SKIN/butt. :#
Projects and concepts that I have stewing around
Extended Pleistocene- An alternate future where man died out, and the megafauna would continue to thrive (may or may not include a bit about certain future sapients)
Inverted World- An alternate timeline where an asteroid hit during the Barremian, causing an extinction event before the Maastrichtian. Dinosaurs, pterosaurs, and notosuchians make it to the present, along with a host of other animals.
Badania- Alien planet that has life at a devonian stage of development, except it exists in the present day.
Ido- Alien world where hoppers (derived flightless ballonts) and mouthpart-legged beasts are prevalent.
Leto- Life on a moon orbiting a gas giant with an erratic orbit; experiences extremes of hot and cold.
The Park- ???
Deeper Impact- a world where the K-Pg extinction wipes out crocodilians, mammals, and birds; squamates, choristoderes, and turtles inherit the earth.
World of Equal Opportunity- alternate history where denisovans come across Beringia and interact with native fauna. Much of the Pleistocene fauna survives, and the modern humans that end up crossing into North America do not overhunt the existing animals. 10,000 years later, civilizations exist that are on par with European and Asian societies.
The Ditch- Nothing is what if seems..
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Carlos
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That, however, seems more easy a task for cold blooded aquatic reptiles, because they don't demand oxygen as much. I don't know how that would work for a whale
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colddigger
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It could work partially I imagine, although they would probably still have to rely on their lungs. But once that gets started I suppose they could continue developing it and developing it until they end up with something that could work... although that might hinder their swimming...
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Spugpow
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Yeah, the lack of an outlet for the water is a problem...is it certain that the blowhole couldn't serve the purpose/porpoise (LOLOLROFLMAO :D) ?

I suppose that the whales could breathe using only their gills while at rest, but take breaths at the surface when engaged in strenuous activity.
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colddigger
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What purpose? The blow hole is just a nostril, I don't see it doing much other than letting air into the creature's lungs...
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Spugpow
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So that the whales could swim with their mouths open continuously, like sardines. It really isn't vital, though. I think I was thinking too much of fish when I posted that.
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T.Neo
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I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt cetaceans could re-evolve gills like that. Yes, there are turtles and sea snakes that are evolving/have evolved tissues that allow them to partially respire underwater, but they aren't cetaceans. They're reptiles which means, among other things, that they have a lower metabolic rate.

Cetaceans, well, a lot of them, feed on fish. So I think that instead of radiating massively, many species would unfortunately go extinct. Some will survive and prosper, but the real radiation is going to be in invertebrates, specifically crustaceans and molluscs. Without fish predators and with their reproductive stratagies, they will balloon in number. Which could provide a good food source for some cetaceans, such as baleen whales.

It will be an ecological disaster... the whole balance will be tipped. And I can certainly see a gigantic bloom of crustecean reproduction following that, and in deeper time, radiation to fill the niches left open by the mysteriously vanished fish.

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colddigger
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I particularly like this idea of tiny (3 feet) porpoises with short gestation periods and rapidly grows to adulthood. They could be rats of the sea.

I basically see the food chain going: shrimp --> squid --> porpoise.
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