| Speculative biology is simultaneously a science and form of art in which one speculates on the possibilities of life and evolution. What could the world look like if dinosaurs had never gone extinct? What could alien lifeforms look like? What kinds of plants and animals might exist in the far future? These questions and more are tackled by speculative biologists, and the Speculative Evolution welcomes all relevant ideas, inquiries, and world-building projects alike. With a member base comprising users from across the world, our community is the largest and longest-running place of gathering for speculative biologists on the web. While unregistered users are able to browse the forum on a basic level, registering an account provides additional forum access not visible to guests as well as the ability to join in discussions and contribute yourself! Registration is free and instantaneous. Join our community today! |
| Whales Everywhere! EVERYWHERE!; No fish, just cetaceans. | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Oct 24 2010, 06:15 PM (2,096 Views) | |
| Spugpow | Oct 24 2010, 06:15 PM Post #1 |
![]()
Prime Specimen
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I've always thought this idea was cool: What if all the fish in the ocean were magicked away? We'd have oceans dominated by cetaceans, which would undergo explosive radiation to fill all the empty niches. Squid and krill would would fill other niches as well, and provide food for the cetaceans. I'm thinking that baleen could be modified to form gills, and the blowhole could become the outlet through which water passes after entering the mouth. Here's a quick picture: |
| My deviantart page: http://amnioticoef.deviantart.com/ | |
![]() |
|
| Pando | Oct 24 2010, 06:21 PM Post #2 |
|
Obey or I'll send you to the moon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I don't think it's remotely possible for a tetrapod to grow gills again, unless its an amphibian. But then again, lungs grew on its own, it didn't come from the gills. Those concepts are cool, but I think whales would continue filter feeding with invertebrates taking the fish niches, and dolphins would have to either adapt to eatign crustaceans only or die. |
![]() |
|
| Spugpow | Oct 24 2010, 06:37 PM Post #3 |
![]()
Prime Specimen
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Why couldn't a tetrapod grow gills again? A gill is just a region of highly vascularized tissue with a large surface area. In fact, aquatic turtles are in the process of evolving gills: they're able to absorb oxygen through the lining of their bowels. It seems to me like whales are better poised to take over fish niches than squid or crustaceans, due to their energy efficient swimming and their ability to take oxygen from the atmosphere (the atmosphere has a higher concentration of oxygen the ocean). However, the various algae-grazing niches would probably be taken over by invertebrates. Edited by Spugpow, Oct 24 2010, 06:46 PM.
|
| My deviantart page: http://amnioticoef.deviantart.com/ | |
![]() |
|
| Kamidio | Oct 24 2010, 09:42 PM Post #4 |
![]()
The Game Master of the SSU:NC
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I see a flaw in your logic. All vertabrates are fish. Humans, crocodiles, and whales die off. It's simples cladistics. |
SSU:NC - Finding a new home. Quotes WAA
| |
![]() |
|
| colddigger | Oct 25 2010, 12:04 AM Post #5 |
|
Joke's over! Love, Parasky
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
LOLOLOLOLCLADISTICS Better say gilled chordates possessing no evolutionary history of legs whilst still in the ownership of permanent movable fins. Anyway, the way I see it is similar to what Pando said, the baleen whales continue happily filter feeding, while the dolphins and porpoises are forced to consume shellfish along with squid and OTHER DOLPHINS. Oh, and they would totally devour the whales, just look at orcas, they love them some humpback whale tongue. The bottom of the food chain -herbivores and such- would probably quickly be filled up with shrimps and crabs and mollusks... and iguanas while the larger predator niches would be chock-full of dolphins and porpoises. Much as it is today, except with maybe more links in the food chain. I'm hesitant on cetaceans developing gills as they are quite comfortable holding their breath and would likely continue developing that rather than bowel gills... Also, I thought the trachea and esophagus were separate in a whale? Or for some reason that's what I thought... Is it true or not? |
|
Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
![]() |
|
| Spugpow | Oct 25 2010, 12:06 AM Post #6 |
![]()
Prime Specimen
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
All Elasmobranchs, Actinopterygii, Agnathans, the two kinds of lung fish and the Coelocanth disappear. |
| My deviantart page: http://amnioticoef.deviantart.com/ | |
![]() |
|
| Spugpow | Oct 25 2010, 12:21 AM Post #7 |
![]()
Prime Specimen
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You're right, Silver Slave, the trachea is separate in whales. *smacks head against desk*. Oh well. About the development of gills, I figure that cetaceans would develop them as they got smaller and their lungs became more easily compressible. That logic may be wrong though. I figure gills would develop from gums which grew up around baleen rods. Of course, that route wouldn't be available to toothed whales, so I guess you're right about them remaining more or less the same. There's still some room for change though: I figured the little whales in the picture were the dolphins' answer to sardines, and that they would patrol the surface waters snapping up plankton and occasionally surfacing en masse for air. |
| My deviantart page: http://amnioticoef.deviantart.com/ | |
![]() |
|
| colddigger | Oct 25 2010, 12:43 AM Post #8 |
|
Joke's over! Love, Parasky
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Personally I think that the deeper waters would be dominated by shrimp while these dolphins controlled the shallower waters. That might just be due to my adoration for open water shrimp. Sperm whales dive down into those deep waters to feed on squid, so they would still do that I suppose, and probably fairly comfortably with just their lungs... dunno how getting smaller would effect them, if they would get smaller at all... There are pygmy sperm whales... so there ya go... |
|
Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
![]() |
|
| Spugpow | Oct 25 2010, 12:53 AM Post #9 |
![]()
Prime Specimen
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I HAVE A HUGE CRUSH ON KRILL. They're just like fish but completely different .Sperm whales' lungs are crushed to 1% their normal volume when they dive. Air filled chambers just don't do very well at low depths, especially not small ones (I think). |
| My deviantart page: http://amnioticoef.deviantart.com/ | |
![]() |
|
| Carlos | Oct 25 2010, 04:40 AM Post #10 |
|
Adveho in me Lucifero
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
While I'm not against gills, I think that cetaceans replacing fish is for all purposes impossible. For example, their reproductive rates are insanely low, and they take eons to grow. Its like suggesting elephants will replace rabbits. In addition, following this logic would imply that mosasaurs and plesiosaurs would have replaced fish as well in the late Cretaceous, since the decline in fish stocks would have allowed enough time for a decreasing in size and other stuff. |
|
Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
![]() |
|
| lamna | Oct 25 2010, 06:03 AM Post #11 |
![]() ![]()
|
A bigger flaw in this is that Fish don't exist. We're far closer to a coelacanth than a coelacanth is to a shark. But I have my doubts about whales filling the small niches, I think Squid and crustacean could do a much better job. However I imagine whales would do pretty well replacing sharks. |
|
Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
![]() |
|
| Carlos | Oct 25 2010, 10:07 AM Post #12 |
|
Adveho in me Lucifero
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Well, every marine tetrapod tried to replace sharks, but they never did. I suppose whales/ichtyosaurs/sauropterygians/sea crocs/mosasaurs/whatever occupy different niches from those of sharks. On the other hand, sea crocs also seem to occupy a different ecological niche from the whale analogues, ence why marine gharials and crocodiles managed to co-exist with whales up to the present (although they severely declined during the Pliocene obviously, but that was due to the cooling of the seas). Edited by Carlos, Oct 25 2010, 10:08 AM.
|
|
Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
![]() |
|
| lamna | Oct 25 2010, 11:43 AM Post #13 |
![]() ![]()
|
If we were in position with no large sharks, but plenty of toothed whales and squid do you think the small sharks would take over the niche again before the toothed whales and squid did? |
|
Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
![]() |
|
| colddigger | Oct 25 2010, 11:44 AM Post #14 |
|
Joke's over! Love, Parasky
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Ah yes, forgot about the low birth rate of dolphins. Another limiting factor that I had forgotten was that fish are capable of producing huge amounts of offspring (in comparison to mammals) since their fry go off and fend for themselves upon hatching. Cetaceans require nurturing upon birth and the mothers have to nurse their young. |
|
Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
![]() |
|
| Carlos | Oct 25 2010, 03:11 PM Post #15 |
|
Adveho in me Lucifero
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Of course; it happened like a million times across the time sharks have dominated our oceans, many times when large marine reptiles were around. It also helps they get smarter each time such a thing happens; the last time in was the KT event, and sharks were so smart by that point that they figured out how to survive the mass extinction with most of their diversity intact anyway, with only some primitive forms like hybodontids and the larger lamniformes dying. Edited by Carlos, Oct 25 2010, 03:12 PM.
|
|
Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Alternative Evolution · Next Topic » |




whaleworld1.jpg (137.89 KB)






.



1:50 PM Jul 11