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Topic Started: Oct 12 2010, 08:08 PM (1,442 Views)
Owl Streak
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Lets say dinosaurs some how became dominant creatures AGAIN after they lived a long time ago what would happen?
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Kamidio
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Either Discovery Kids was lying to me or you are.
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Pando
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Flisch
Oct 16 2010, 10:00 AM
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Flisch
Oct 15 2010, 05:10 AM
Yes, because it's simply wrong. Birds were never dominant. Oh right, there were some big predator birds, but honestly, mammals became the dominant vertebrate group pretty soon after the cretaceous.

It's like saying today's world is dominated by snakes and crocodiles.
What I said was that birds managed to keep the mammals small for a llittle while. The mammals won eventually.

And that's where you're wrong, birds never kept mammals small.
Yup, it was land crocodiles that kept the mammals small during the time that non-avian dinos ruled the land, then the worldwide rainforest was part of the reason mammals stayed small after it, except for a few large mammals that adapted to being a large ground herbivore in a rainforest.
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Carlos
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Forbiddenparadise64
Oct 16 2010, 05:53 AM
ovivivapory? I thought all archosaurs couldn't develop ovivivapory. Yeah, if someone engineered a flying animal with all the advantages of birds and pterosaurs and wiped out mammals and birds, than they would have great potential for dominance.
Pterosaur eggs seemed to have had extremely thin, calcium-less shells. Presumably, much like modern lizards, ovovipary could be developed. In addition, it is very likely pterosaurs were actually related to drepanosaurs, not derived archosaurs.

@lamna: Yes, I do realise pterosaurs were not dinosaurs by any stretch of imagination. No, I will not shut up on how awesome they were.

As pointed out above, crocodillians make also extremely good competitors against mammals. The only disandvantage seems to be obligatory ovipary, much like in birds; no known crocodillian had decent heat conserving integrument either, but that could easily be solved.
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Flisch
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Croc of Diamonds
Oct 16 2010, 10:05 AM
Either Discovery Kids was lying to me or you are.
...

*facepalms*
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Kamidio
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So Discovery Kids and Ben Stiller by being the narrator lied to me? Bullcrap.
Edited by Kamidio, Oct 16 2010, 01:41 PM.
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Toad of Spades
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JohnFaa
Oct 16 2010, 05:04 AM
While birds always had and will always have a much higher biodiversity than mammals, they simply can't be dominant. Granted, birds have adaptations like a much superior pulmonary system, several adaptations to preserve water, and feathers, but they also have many disadvantages, like obligatory bipedal stance and ovipary, which simply make them inferior to mammals. Birds can evolve large, flightless forms in a world dominated by mammals, but thats about it; the only mammal group they can triumph over are bats.
There is no real reason for them not to become quadrupedal again. Of course it would be difficult for them to evolve to walk on their hands again, but its not impossible for them to. Their arms and shoulders could adapt to carry weight and walk again. Once they do they can evolve into more flexible body plans based on their limbs.

It doesn't have to start on the ground either. They could start out in the trees and cliffs using their arms as well as their legs similar to hoatzin chicks. Once they evolve their arms back into a use of locomotion that isn't based on flight, they could adapt their limbs further to able to bear weight. They could also evolve back their long tail for balance, though it wouldn't be flexible, instead becoming stiff and flexible at the base like dromaeosaur tails. Some lineages could leave the trees and become totally land based creatures. Once the environment turns in favor of reptiles/birds, they could evolve on a similar course to the early archosaurs.

The scenario above isn't the only way birds could re-adapt into a flexible bodyplan again. Their are many ways they could evolve towards this kind of body plan and isn't impossible. Look at the early archosauriformes. If an intelligent species lived back then do you think any of them would have thought that it would be plausible that creatures like those could evolve into the early archosaurs, the very diverse crurotarsans, the pterosaurs, and the dinosaurs/birds. Evolution is random and life always finds solutions to problems.

Also look at the archosaurs. They laid eggs, but that didn't stop them from flourishing once the environment turned in their favor. Once the environment turns in the favor of reptiles/birds the tables will certainly turn.
Edited by Toad of Spades, Oct 16 2010, 11:02 PM.
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colddigger
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I thought one of the major issues for birds was that their skeletons were fused...
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Carlos
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I'm honestly sick of saying many reasons of why quadrupedality in birds is for all purposes impossible. But even if it was, it would still take time, and for what? For lizards to take over while birds would still be shifting from pure bipedality to the ancestral pose?
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lamna
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Might I remind you again this is about Dinosaurs taking over again, not crocodiles or pterosaurs or lizards or jellyfish or motorcycles. Dinosaurs.
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Kamidio
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lamna
Oct 17 2010, 05:33 AM
motorcycles
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motorcycles

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motorcycles

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motorcycles


*pupils dialate into pinholes*

CARDGAMES ON MOTORCYCLES!!!!!!
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Ook
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or flying pigs?
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Toad of Spades
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JohnFaa
Oct 17 2010, 05:14 AM
I'm honestly sick of saying many reasons of why quadrupedality in birds is for all purposes impossible. But even if it was, it would still take time, and for what? For lizards to take over while birds would still be shifting from pure bipedality to the ancestral pose?
The body shift doesn't have to occur during a major climate change. It could happen when mammals are still dominant. When the climate shifts in favor of reptiles/birds, they would already be prepared.
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colddigger
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I think what's being suggested here is not that birds have a change in their body structure and as a result become dominant but rather that a small group changes for a tiny little niche and then when a mass extinction happens that one group diversifies. Or something like that, if it's the hoatzin and using their front limbs to clamber around the trees (I would imagine that would still retain some flight or gliding or something, too good to lose ya know?) then I think that's... believable, or more believable that geese falling over and knuckle walking.

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lamna
Oct 17 2010, 05:33 AM
motorcycles
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motorcycles

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motorcycles

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motorcycles


*pupils dialate into pinholes*

CARDGAMES ON MOTORCYCLES!!!!!!


Yes.
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Toad of Spades
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SIiver Slave
Oct 17 2010, 02:59 PM
I think what's being suggested here is not that birds have a change in their body structure and as a result become dominant but rather that a small group changes for a tiny little niche and then when a mass extinction happens that one group diversifies.
That's what I'm suggesting. I doubt that my version of quadrupedal arboreal birds will be common at first. After all, the first dinosaurs weren't common at first either.
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So, JohnFaa, if I may ask, if pterosaurs and crocodiles were oh-so-better at everything than stinky birds and rats, why is one group dead and the other limited to about 10 species?
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