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flying humans
Topic Started: Oct 11 2010, 12:12 AM (2,259 Views)
Owl Streak
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Do you think that if people used there arms enough their arms could possibly support them if we developed flight?
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colddigger
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They could just push off the walls couldn't they? Unless you mean something... very large, then if they didn't bother to make tools for moving around and they survived the zero gravity I suppose there would be selection for larger paddle-like hands and/or feet. Possibly more skin stretched behind the arm pits...

Or do what the space folk in All Tomorrows did...
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Spugpow
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Something like this:


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for more info about this structure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_cylinder

From Empyreon: Please observe internet etiquette and place oversized images in a spoiler box.
Edited by Empyreon, Nov 23 2010, 01:32 AM.
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T.Neo
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If that thing stops rotating, everyone dies. End of story. They won't be able to reproduce and their circulatory and muscoskeletal systems will atrophy.

I also see no reason for an O'Neill cylinder to stop rotating in that fashion. And change in rotation would likely be detected and compensated for long before it becomes a problem.

Flapping for propulsion in microgravity is possible... they tried it in their spare time up on the Skylab space station, but it requires a lot of energy to do...
Edited by T.Neo, Nov 5 2010, 07:16 PM.
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Spugpow
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I'm assuming the cylinder would stop rotating over a very long period of time, perhaps due to the friction created by water inside it. I'm also assuming that the cylinder's inhabitants have lost their technology the same way the tasmanians did (it's hard to keep technological advances alive in a small society...there's a higher probability of ideas dying out due to the small number of people).

I'm sure birds could propel themselves fine in zero-G. Humans might start out by flying normally as the gravity lowered, and by the time the it was gone completely they'd have the wings necessary to "swim" through the air...
Edited by Spugpow, Nov 7 2010, 11:11 PM.
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T.Neo
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No, the water is rotating along with the cylinder, inside it. The only thing I can think of that could affect the rotation is things like gravity gradient torque, and even that would be very long acting as well as probably unable to effectively remove all of the angular momentum of the cylinder.

However, the colony will almost certainly have a despun as well as a spun section, and a bearing between the two... it will be designed to be as frictionless as possible, but obviously it will slow the spin of the cylinder. Most colony designs also propose having two cylinders, either side-by-side or in a row, spinning in opposite directions so that they can be used to control the attitude of the station.

The cylinder could contain as many as 20 million, or something like that... this is not just a small space station, but a truely gigantic structure.

But the fact remains that if their technology is lost, they'll all die. It's a hydraulic society; it cannot survive without technological support. Losing artificial gravity is probably the least of their problems, if something extremely critical like temperature control or lighting fails.

While a gradual decline in gravity might help adaptation to microgravity, I doubt people would fare well in any acceptable amount of time. It's a very fundamental change that no organism in the history of life on Earth has had to endure.

Flapping flight is probably inefficient and too energy intensive; just pushing off stuff would probably be better.
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Holben
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How about attaching ropes to the edges of the cylinder and hauling yourself around?
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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T.Neo
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That'd be even better.
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Holben
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I thought so too. :P

Did you see those suits which exert force on the body to simulate gravity?
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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Flisch
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Oh god can we please stop posting such huuuuge pictures and instead put them in a spoiler or hide them as a link?

I don't have a 3 meter wide monitor and all the posts and the text is stretched the whole width of the picture.
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T.Neo
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Quote:
 
Did you see those suits which exert force on the body to simulate gravity?


Link?

I'm not sure what you mean, since there are various devices that can alter or help the body to deal with gravitational force in one way or another, but I haven't heard of any suit that could provide effective artificial gravity in space.
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Holben
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http://www.impactlab.net/2010/10/31/new-super-hero-style-spacesuits-for-astronauts-simulates-the-effects-of-gravity-on-the-body/

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Described in a new paper, prototype tests of the Gravity Loading Countermeasure Skinsuit, being developed by a research team at MIT’s Man-Vehicle Laboratory, show that the suit simulates the effects of gravity on the human body, which could solve one of the biggest obstacles to future human space travel.

Astronauts lose 1 to 2 percent of their bone mass for each month they spend in space. As far back as the Gemini missions, conditioning exercise regimes have been used to slow the rate of bone loss, but a 2001-2004 NASA-sponsored study showed that crew members aboard the International Space Station (ISS) were still losing up to 2.7 percent of their interior bone material and 1.7 percent of outer hipbone material for each month they spent in space. If ISS crew members lose this much bone density after 4 to 6 months in space, astronauts on long missions to Mars-voyages that could take years-could lose enough bone mass that they suffer fractures while carrying out tasks on the Martian surface.

With stirrups that loop around the feet, the elastic gravity skinsuit is purposely cut too short for the astronaut so that it stretches when put on-pulling the wearer’s shoulders towards the feet. In normal gravity conditions on Earth, a human’s legs bear more weight than the torso. Because the suit’s legs stretch more than the torso section, the wearer’s legs are subjected to a greater force-replicating gravity effects on Earth.

The prototype suit testing took place on parabolic flights that created brief periods of weightlessness. Results showed that the suit successfully imitated the pull of gravity on the torso and thighs, but it did not exert enough force on the lower legs. Researchers are now refining the suit’s design to address this; they also plan to test the suit to see how it performs when worn overnight. Volunteers who wore the suit on the test flights reported that the suit was comfortable and did not significantly restrict movement, which means crewmembers can work and exercise while wearing the suit.

An article on the study will be published in the journal Acta Astronautica.
Edited by Holben, Nov 9 2010, 08:47 AM.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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T.Neo
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Looks uncomfortable and I also doubt it can simulate all the effects of gravity.
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colddigger
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It's designed to simulate the pressure gravity puts on the person's skeleton, that's all.
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Spugpow
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"How about attaching ropes to the edges of the cylinder and hauling yourself around?"

Only the cylinder is about 5 miles wide and twenty miles long.

Remember that it stops spinning very gradually.
Edited by Spugpow, Nov 9 2010, 11:12 PM.
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Holben
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Ropes can be very long...
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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