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The truth about Grendel; I've discovered what Grendel really is!
Topic Started: Aug 31 2010, 10:40 AM (3,646 Views)
Spartan Delta
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Ok, so I've thought hard about this, and I've reached a major finding. I was trying to draw Grendel, but was having trouble deciding how to draw him. In the poem Beowulf, Grendel varies in description from being a big, hairy monster to being a big, slimy monster, to even being described as a monstrous man! So I was trying to figure out how best to describe him, and I decided to list the facts that I knew about Grendel and his mother.

1) Grendel and his mother life up north, around England or Germany, since that's where the poem came from. Since temperatures there are often cold, especially in winter, the monster is likely warm-blooded, and also has a way to keep warm in the colder temperatures.

2)The poem describes them as living in a deep, dark, mist-shrouded lake surrounded by trees and cliffs. Since Grendel also attacks the people on land, it's obvious that Grendel is amphibious.

3) Grendel is carnivorous, and has sharp claws and teeth. He also is bipedal, giving him a taller appearance.

4) Grendel is likely a juvenile, since he is still under some parental care. So it follows that he is not as heavily built as his mother. However, he's old enough to go hunting on his own.

5) Grendel is pained whenever he hears singing. Logic says that Grendel has very sensitive hearing. (Either that, or he's a real killjoy.)

6) Grendel, as the poem says, is "charmed" so that no sword or spear can slay him. It's more likely, however, that his skin is just thick or stronger than normal. However, he loses an arm in the fight with Beowulf, so he must have a weaker build.


And when I listed these attributes, I found my answer. it only makes sense, if you think of Grendel...as a whale.

No, I don't mean modern whales that live in the ocean. I mean prehistoric whales - the ancestral whales that still had limbs, and could walk. Now I know it sounds unlikely, but just think about it!

Modern whales have a high body fat content that allows them to live in cold polar waters. Add a layer of fur on top, and that'd be perfect for living in the lake!

While ancestral whales didn't have echolocation like today's whales, it's possible that they had sensitive hearing. So that could explain why Grendel hated music - the volume and tone were painful to his hearing.

Ancestral whales were, of course, amphibious, but they were also carnivorous. In fact, most early whales - even the early whales that were fully aquatic - were mainly carnivorous! So that fits with Grendel's appetite for flesh.

And to top it all off, many amphibious cetaceans like Ambulocetus often show more defined legs, and shorter, weaker arms (since they were mainly using their legs to swim, and only needed arms when on land). So that weaker musculature would explain how Grendel could lose his arm so easily, especially if he was a juvenile.

The only bit that has trouble fitting is bipedal locomotion. While there's no evidence that prehistoric whales could walk bipedally, there is always the possibility of a semi-bipedal creature. There are several crocodilian species, both living and extinct, that can move on two legs for a short time. And it's likely that Grendel's variety could have been able to at least stand semi-erect sometimes.

So there's my epiphany. That devil, that fiend, Grendel, only works ,from a biological perspective, as a prehistoric whale. That's the only way it makes sense for him to attack on land AND still live underwater. So what do ya think?
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But he's bipedal. Each and every single prehistoric whale was a quadraped, and most were built either like otters or hippos.
My personal theory is that Grendel was some sort of hideous, inbred human being, if anything at all.
You may be a king or a lil' street sweeper, but sooner or later, you'll dance with the reaper!
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Holben
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Spartan Delta
Aug 31 2010, 10:40 AM
1) Grendel and his mother life up north, around England or Germany, since that's where the poem came from. Since temperatures there are often cold, especially in winter, the monster is likely warm-blooded, and also has a way to keep warm in the colder temperatures.

3) Grendel is carnivorous, and has sharp claws and teeth. He also is bipedal, giving him a taller appearance.

And when I listed these attributes, I found my answer. it only makes sense, if you think of Grendel...as a whale.

No, I don't mean modern whales that live in the ocean. I mean prehistoric whales - the ancestral whales that still had limbs, and could walk. Now I know it sounds unlikely, but just think about it!

Modern whales have a high body fat content that allows them to live in cold polar waters. Add a layer of fur on top, and that'd be perfect for living in the lake!

While ancestral whales didn't have echolocation like today's whales, it's possible that they had sensitive hearing. So that could explain why Grendel hated music - the volume and tone were painful to his hearing.

Ancestral whales were, of course, amphibious, but they were also carnivorous. In fact, most early whales - even the early whales that were fully aquatic - were mainly carnivorous! So that fits with Grendel's appetite for flesh.

And to top it all off, many amphibious cetaceans like Ambulocetus often show more defined legs, and shorter, weaker arms (since they were mainly using their legs to swim, and only needed arms when on land). So that weaker musculature would explain how Grendel could lose his arm so easily, especially if he was a juvenile.

The only bit that has trouble fitting is bipedal locomotion. While there's no evidence that prehistoric whales could walk bipedally, there is always the possibility of a semi-bipedal creature. There are several crocodilian species, both living and extinct, that can move on two legs for a short time. And it's likely that Grendel's variety could have been able to at least stand semi-erect sometimes.

So there's my epiphany. That devil, that fiend, Grendel, only works ,from a biological perspective, as a prehistoric whale. That's the only way it makes sense for him to attack on land AND still live underwater. So what do ya think?
Denmark, it thought? And it's quite warm there, about 17 degrees average in most places. Because of the sea, winters aren't bad.

3. He could be quasi-bipedal.

It's really not polar up here.

Hey, check out my orcathero.

But i don't think he's meant to be 100% biologically accurate...
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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SIngemeister
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Yeah, Beowulf goes on to fight a poison breathing talking dragon, so you know.
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Pando
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SIngemeister
Aug 31 2010, 02:57 PM
Yeah, Beowulf goes on to fight a poison breathing talking dragon, so you know.
That could be a surviving pterosaur that spits poison...


All seems good until the bipedal part. I suggest a semi-amphibious giant hominid.
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dialforthedevil
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Thank you for bringing Grendel up i almost forgot about the lovable guy :D
In my project Grendel is the last of a linneage of more savage Alpine Hunchbacks which are actively carnivorous...
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Pando
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Alpine? Grendel was north of the alps.
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Carlos
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Several depictions make Grendel resemble a quadruped monster, so he doesn't need to be bipedal
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dialforthedevil
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@Pando this is a tribe way out of their natural habitat and die to starvation turned to eating humans

@JohnFaa please show me a quadraped Grendel from a respected source the original text described him as a humanoid...
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Rodlox
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Aug 31 2010, 02:38 PM
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you might like the book Ice Hunt by Rollins.


I always thought Grendel was, overall, like the picture on the cover of The Relic

i think i like your whale theory better.
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lamna
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Grendel is supposed to be from Denmark, which is decidedly not alpine. It's flatter than the Netherlands.
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Spartan Delta
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Aug 31 2010, 11:40 AM
But he's bipedal. Each and every single prehistoric whale was a quadraped, and most were built either like otters or hippos.
My personal theory is that Grendel was some sort of hideous, inbred human being, if anything at all.

As for the dragon, I stand by my belief that you can't truly explain dragons. They're too diverse to be explained by simply calling it an ancient animal. The dragon's a dragon, and Grendel and his mommy are semi-erect prehistoric whales. That's my theory.
Didn't you read my part about that?

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The only bit that has trouble fitting is bipedal locomotion. While there's no evidence that prehistoric whales could walk bipedally, there is always the possibility of a semi-bipedal creature. There are several crocodilian species, both living and extinct, that can move on two legs for a short time. And it's likely that Grendel's variety could have been able to at least stand semi-erect sometimes.


I explained that, dude.

And I didn't say it was polar. I said whales can swim in polar areas, thanks to their blubber. I didn't say that England was polar - just cold. Mostly in the wintertime, anyway.

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Spartan Delta
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lamna
Sep 1 2010, 08:41 AM
Grendel is supposed to be from Denmark, which is decidedly not alpine. It's flatter than the Netherlands.
That's what the poem said. Don't look at me - I just gathered facts from what I read.

Rodlox
 

I always thought Grendel was, overall, like the picture on the cover of The Relic

i think i like your whale theory better.

Aw, thank you!
It's so fun coming up with interesting possibilities! :D
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I know you explained it with a "semi-bipedal" possibility, but when something takes such a lifestyle as that, they seem to require a very specific build: a body with small forelimbs, a long and thick tail, and its center of gravity being in its pelvic region (i.e. a huge butt). Currently, very few mammals are known to be bipedal at all (us included), and the only animal that seems to be able to meet semi-biped criteria is the pangolin (which is really really weird).
While it is an intriguing concept-an extreme divergence from a very popular evolutionary line in mammals- it doesn't seem to fit what we know the proto-whales were capable of. Not to mention, there is a lot of literature that points to this thing being very man-like, with people even going so far as to call him a descendent of the biblical Cain.
...but, then again, it's theorized that ancient sailors mistook manatees for humanoid mermaids, so Grendel might've been an Ambulocetus descendant (whose stock, btw, lived in the Middle East).
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dialforthedevil
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lamna
Sep 1 2010, 08:41 AM
Grendel is supposed to be from Denmark, which is decidedly not alpine. It's flatter than the Netherlands.
I said these animals were way out of their normal range...
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