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Alterniverse; A world where dinosaurs, mammals, notosuchids, pterosaurs are dominant
Topic Started: Aug 5 2010, 05:55 AM (4,697 Views)
Cephylus
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Okay here is a project I've been working on for some time. It has a very common theme, what if the asteroid never crashed at the end of Cretaceous and if dinosaurs had survived as the dominant clade on Earth. I already have a website on wikidot but I haven't yet discussed it much on this forum. I've been working on it alone except for some help from by paleontology crazed friends but now I'm posting it here for some suggestions and corrections since I want to make this project as plausible as possible and my ideas are limited.

So here are the general settings for this project:
- First, most importantly, the asteroid missed and so dinosaurs went on as the dominant clade. Although many dinosaurs were killed off during many extinction events in the Cenezoic, they still are the dominant land vertebrates in the present.
- As you can guess, mammals don't fare well as they do in HE but they are still one of the secondary major clades and a successful group. They fare far better than their Mesozoic ancestors with dinosaurs. However, mammals are still the prey and dinosaurs are still the predators..... with some exceptions
- Pterosaurs are one of the other successful clades. They fill various flyer niches occupied by birds in HE. There are some flightless animals that fill large omnivore/carnivore niches.
- Mosasaurs aren't so lucky in this New World. They survive and thrive in some places, but they are not the dominant sea vertebrates and their diversity reduced as they are more and more pushed off the stage by marine mammals and penguin-like sea dinos.
- Champsosaurs are still around and some managed to quite successfuly establish themselves in semi aquatic/ marine niches.
- Notosuchids are another successful clade and they range from small insectivores to gigantic dinosaur guzzling sabre toothed apex predators. All of them are heterodont and they distinctly resemble mammals.

So what do you think of this world? I'll be posting more specific stuff when this draws some attention..... Also I need help with those Latin names for classfication..... ;)
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Toad of Spades
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Aug 10 2010, 07:23 PM
How about a marine non-theropod dinosaur? Maybe a sea-cow like descendant of a hadrosaur or a ceratopsians.
Maybe some of the carnivorous ornithischians could become seal-like to feed on aquatic prey. They could stay like that until niches open from an extinction, then they could radiate a bit.
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dialforthedevil
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What about the absolutely massive titanosaurs moving into the water to support their weight? Maybe eventually becoming like seacows or even whales?
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Cephylus
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dialforthedevil
Aug 11 2010, 04:19 AM
What about the absolutely massive titanosaurs moving into the water to support their weight? Maybe eventually becoming like seacows or even whales?
Non-therapod aquatic dinos are good.... I think Dodo you meant the aquatic duck-billed ornithischians from spec :lol:

they'd probably get similar to sea cows.

Hey Dial :D I was already thinking of titanosaurs going underwater to support their weight. I have a semi-aquatic one but it has the traditional shape of ordinary titanosaurs except for a fin on their tail I think I'll probably have aquatic ornithischians
And Dial I always welcome help you are free to help with this project if you like :D
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dialforthedevil
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Of course i will help what would you like me to do? :D
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spartan
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Hey Cephlaken, nice project! Its good to see this projects like Skull Island and Spec ;D

Sauropods are incluided in the project?
Edited by spartan, Aug 11 2010, 11:46 AM.
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The Dodo
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According to one of the earlier posts, they survive in Africa but in a smaller form.
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Cephylus
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Thanks Spartan :D :D your project always inspires me

Dodo's right :lol: Sauropods are in this project, but they only exist in Africa, and in smaller forms, being outcompeted by similar therizinosaurs and herbivorous therapods in the rest of the world.

And Dial it would be nice if you have some suggestions for the mammals I really need help with mammals thanks again for the offer :D :D
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dialforthedevil
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How about burrowing species of Hyracotheres?
A species of Oreodont which lives among the hers of larger dinosaurs which eats the berries and leaves which they drop while browsing.
In Alpine regions you could have areas dominated completely by mammals so the descendants of the survivng few could grow larger...
The descendants of Ambulocetus becoming terrestrial or maybe arboreal predators?
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Ook
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i dont think that something like pakicetus evolve into ambulocetus like forms
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Cephylus
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History of Alterniverse- Eocene

The Eocene is the second epoch of the Paleocene Period in the Cenezoic Era. The Eocene is marked by the emergance of the first modern dinosaurs found in more widespread and diversified forms nowadays.
The Earth's surface temperatures generally rose from the late Paleocene through the early Eocene, reaching maximum during the Early Eocene Climatic Optimum. A series of 'hyperthermals', geologically brief events characterized by rapid and extreme global warming. The most notable of these is the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum beginning at the Paleocene-Eocene Boundary, a rapid and intense worldwide warming event. This is the reasong for a major dinosaurian turnover on land and causes a major difference between Paleocene and Eocene fauna. The Eocene climate is the most homogenous of the Cenezoic period, the difference between modern climate being the greatest in the temeprate latitudes. The deep ocean currents were exceptionally warm, the poles were much warmer, temperate forests extending right to the poles, and the rainy tropical climate extending far, far over modern boundaries. However, the climate in the tropics were probably not much different from modern day.
The globally high temperaters all end as the late Eocene is marked by the start of a slow global cooling trend, the Eocene-Oligocene cooloff. It is probably triggered by the Arctic Ocean Azolla event and the formation of the Antarctic circumpolar current, creating turmoil on the ground and wiping out various lineages of dinosaurs not adapted to colder climates at all. This event is significant in history because this trend results in dinosaurs losing some grip on dominance and the eventual rise of mammals and notosuchids. The Eocene-Oligocene cooloff also eventually leads to the Pleistocene glaciations, which causes another upturn of terrestrial fauna.
At the beginning of the Eocene, the high temperatures and unusually warm oceans created a moist environment, with forests spreading throughout the world from pole to pole, practically covering the entire planet with forests. Subtropical and even tropical flora are found as far North as Greenland and Alaska. Tropical rainforests grew as far North as the Pacific Northwest and Europe. However, the cooling eventually dries the continential interiors out and by the end of Eocene forests are thinning out considerably in many areas, but the newly-evolved grasses have not yet expanded much and still confine to riparian and lacustrine environments. The formation of seasonal changes also marks the fall of tropical flora in the Northern Hemisphere, with Deciduous trees taking over, being better able to cope with large temperature changes. In the northernmost and southernmost part of continents, the tropical and subtropical flora is mostly wiped off and gives rise to forests consisting of deciduous forests and vast stretches of tundra.
The Eocene also gives rise to the oldest known species of modern dinosaurs. All members of these new dinosaur orders were small, under 10 killograms, all dwarf forms. It is thought that the high temperatures favoured smaller-sized animals that were better at coping with heat. As India travels North and attatches to Asia, some native Indian fauna radiate into the Northern Hemisphere, causing some turmoil in the suddenly sparked competition between native Asian fauna and the invasive species. Carcharodontosaurs radiate northward and are quite successful at establishing themselves, outcompeting some native lineages and claiming the place of apex predators in the Northern Hemisphere. It is speculated that the hunting methods of these large carnivores served as an advantage against tyrannosaurs and early unenlagiine pseudo-tyrannosaurs. Carcharodontosaurs have thumb claws and narrow, triangular and finely serrated teeth which is ideal for dispatching the giant sauropods and ceratopsians of Eocene. Carcharodontosaurs were also well-adapted ambush hunters, like many of the smaller dromaeosaurid predators. Although both the carcharodontosaurs and the dromaeosaurs were pathetic at long-distance running, but that weakness did not matter since this method worked perfectly in the dense Eocene forests that pretty much covered the entire world at the time. Tyrannosaurs and pseudo-tyrannosaurs on the other hand, were all specialized at long-distance pursuit. However, this particular weakness of Carcharodontosaurs and Deinonychosarus backfires against them in the dry, considerably un-forested world of Oligocene and this again gives rise to tyrannosaurs, unenlagiines and dromaeonychids(a new lineage of predatorial dromaeosaurs derived from small, basal relatives of primitive deinonychosaurs). The Carcharodontosaurs never rise again to such power after the Eocene. Both the carcharodontosaurs and the tyrannosaurs are all smaller than their Paleocene ancestors, the giant predators like Vastatoeversor wiped out in the rising temperatures of Early Eocene. Early forms of a presently dominant tyrannosaur lineage appear; the coelurotyrannosaurs. They are all of same size or are smaller than wolves, but their small size is an advantage in the reign of Carcharodontosaurs and in the humid, hot climate. They are also noted for their adult plumage, a trait that this lineage still carries today, which also makes these small predators look very similar to juvenile forms of primitive tyrannosaurs. The retaining of their insulatory covering even in adulthood is a characteristic that also later helps these animals successfuly survive the Pleistocene glaciations. These hatchling-like tiny tyrannosaurs, with long, slender legs, produces a diminutive predator well-suited to the dense forests of the Eocene Northern Hemisphere. These first coelurotyrannids chase after the earliest Korovans. The herbivores also go over various changes as Eocene precedes with its many turmoils caused by fast-changing climates. All herbivores have grown a lot smaller compared to their ancestors in the Paleocene. For hardrosaurs, the lambeosaurines are still the dominant megaherbivores, but the first members of modern day hardrosaur lineages with formidable chewing abilities appear during the period and later diversify in the late Eocene when the global forest starts to fragment. These early hardrosaurs are mostly small, herbivorous bipeds hunted by early coelurotyrannosaurs but they will become the megaherbivorous grazers in the future. Chasmosaurine ceratopsians meet a slow decline in the Eocene leading to their eventual demise in the Oligocene. Eocene Chasmosaurines are, like many other animals, are a lot smaller compared to their ancestors. Protoceratopsians slowly start to rise as larger herbivores and omnivores. Giant titanosaurs also roam the Eocene but eventually meet their demise in the Eocene-Oligocene boundary, only leaving behind small and more persistant forms in Africa. Ankylosaurs are also another clade meeting demise in the dramatic Cooloff event at the end of Eocene. Many modern avians appear at this time.
For mammals, the Eocene gives rise to familiar mammals such as ungulates, monotremes, marsupials, primates, rodents and Alterniverse bats. Early Eocene Alterniverse also sees a boom off small omnivorous and carnivorous notosuchids, some evolving into extra-bizzaroid forms. Enormous multiple-sabre toothed predatorial notosuchids are also inhabitants of Early Eocene Alterniverse, similar to modern-day predators but not necessarily related. These animals fill the same niche of their modern day cousins; giant sauropod hunters. Eocene also sees a boom of pterosaurs, with massive Azhdarchoids stalking small animals and tiny nocturnal Anurognathids as insect-hunters. The first flightless pterosaurs, relatives of flying Azhdarchoids also make their appearance. Mosasaurs thrive in the warm oceans, some evolving into enormous 20-metre marine predators strangely resembling the basilosaurus of our own Eocene. Besides that, cetacean-like mosasaurs are an extremely cosmopolitan and successful group in every ocean in the world.
:D :happy: :D
You already have very cool ideas
I love the oreodont idea.
In my projects mammals do get to be some large animals since dinosaurs lose some grip in the climate turmoils...

But I think Bexi's right. It'd be hard to have Pakicetus-like animals but I dunno I do have carnivorous ungulates similar to mesonychids.
As I already said, I can't figure out the marine mammals. I'm going to have some definately, but I don't know wether I should have ambulocetus-like ones evolving from hoofed carnivores like in our world or something else. Anyone care to give suggestions on what should marine mammals be like and what should be their ancestor in this project?
Edited by Cephylus, Aug 12 2010, 08:20 AM.
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Ook
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how about some cimolestans?

and how big will be there marine mammals?and what niches they take?
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Pando
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cephlaken
Aug 12 2010, 03:55 AM
Dodo's right :lol: Sauropods are in this project, but they only exist in Africa, and in smaller forms, being outcompeted by similar therizinosaurs and herbivorous therapods in the rest of the world.
Not again...
Sauropods were only in South America in the Late Cretaceous, as they were dying out (kept getting bigger and bigger but couldn't get smaller due to lack of niches). Titanosaurs were the only ones left. There is no way there could be an African species.
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Rick Raptor
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We don´t know anything about Late Cretaceous Africa, as there are currently no rock formations younger than 90 million years known. And since Titanosaurs were present in South America and India, they probably also lived in Africa, too. And Cretaceous Africa had Nigersaurus, a rebbachisaurid whose jaws and teeth would have rivaled the dental batteries of Laurasian hadrosaurs.
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Cephylus
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Rick's right thanks Rick for explaining :lol:
but I should probably have basal relatives of titanosaurs instead of real sauropods
Edited by Cephylus, Aug 13 2010, 12:13 AM.
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Pando
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Titanosaurs were real sauropods...

If you're referring to the prosauropods, they died out in Early Jurassic so they aren't an option.
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