Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Speculative biology is simultaneously a science and form of art in which one speculates on the possibilities of life and evolution. What could the world look like if dinosaurs had never gone extinct? What could alien lifeforms look like? What kinds of plants and animals might exist in the far future? These questions and more are tackled by speculative biologists, and the Speculative Evolution welcomes all relevant ideas, inquiries, and world-building projects alike. With a member base comprising users from across the world, our community is the largest and longest-running place of gathering for speculative biologists on the web.

While unregistered users are able to browse the forum on a basic level, registering an account provides additional forum access not visible to guests as well as the ability to join in discussions and contribute yourself! Registration is free and instantaneous.

Join our community today!

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Alterniverse; A world where dinosaurs, mammals, notosuchids, pterosaurs are dominant
Topic Started: Aug 5 2010, 05:55 AM (4,694 Views)
Cephylus
Member Avatar
Torando of Terror
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Okay here is a project I've been working on for some time. It has a very common theme, what if the asteroid never crashed at the end of Cretaceous and if dinosaurs had survived as the dominant clade on Earth. I already have a website on wikidot but I haven't yet discussed it much on this forum. I've been working on it alone except for some help from by paleontology crazed friends but now I'm posting it here for some suggestions and corrections since I want to make this project as plausible as possible and my ideas are limited.

So here are the general settings for this project:
- First, most importantly, the asteroid missed and so dinosaurs went on as the dominant clade. Although many dinosaurs were killed off during many extinction events in the Cenezoic, they still are the dominant land vertebrates in the present.
- As you can guess, mammals don't fare well as they do in HE but they are still one of the secondary major clades and a successful group. They fare far better than their Mesozoic ancestors with dinosaurs. However, mammals are still the prey and dinosaurs are still the predators..... with some exceptions
- Pterosaurs are one of the other successful clades. They fill various flyer niches occupied by birds in HE. There are some flightless animals that fill large omnivore/carnivore niches.
- Mosasaurs aren't so lucky in this New World. They survive and thrive in some places, but they are not the dominant sea vertebrates and their diversity reduced as they are more and more pushed off the stage by marine mammals and penguin-like sea dinos.
- Champsosaurs are still around and some managed to quite successfuly establish themselves in semi aquatic/ marine niches.
- Notosuchids are another successful clade and they range from small insectivores to gigantic dinosaur guzzling sabre toothed apex predators. All of them are heterodont and they distinctly resemble mammals.

So what do you think of this world? I'll be posting more specific stuff when this draws some attention..... Also I need help with those Latin names for classfication..... ;)
Spoiler: click to toggle
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Dodo
Member Avatar
Prime Specimen
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Sounds good so far :D .
Are your ideas from Maniraptora radiation topic going into this?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Cephylus
Member Avatar
Torando of Terror
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Yes, definately :D . THere were pretty good ideas of mine and other people's suggestions and I don't want them wasted

And also I'm having a problem on mammalian carnivores; should I have large felid and canid-like ones that hunt dinos?
Edited by Cephylus, Aug 5 2010, 06:55 AM.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Holben
Member Avatar
Rumbo a la Victoria

Well, the dinosaurs will be quite large, so i doubt a 3m-long mammalian carnivore will be given the oppurtunity to evolve.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Cephylus
Member Avatar
Torando of Terror
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
I don't mean mammalian carnivores that large.... that'll be impossible as you said, with all those dinos around. I was thinking of a more moderate sized predator about the size of a hyena or a wolf? :lol: I already got a small canid-like civet thingy that hunts in packs.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Holben
Member Avatar
Rumbo a la Victoria

Well, arboreal ones would be very easy, and perhaps very common. In places liek north america and asia, that is.

But later, when the americas meet, there can be a battle between the mammals as well as the competing dinosaurs!
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
dialforthedevil
Member Avatar
Frumentarii Administrator

Maybe the ice ages push the dinos back giving mammals a small chance?
Also i think mammals would probably fill arboreal niches,for we dont really know many dinos which are arboreal ^_^
Please come visit A Scientfic Fantasy http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/3433014/1/

ALSO!!! JOIN THE NEW RPG SITE!!! FOR ALL MEMBERS!!! IM GOING TO RUN MA GLOBAL SIMULATORS THERE!!! http://s4.zetaboards.com/jasonguppy/index/

Join the Campaign to save minotaurs from extinction!!! (include this in your signature to show your support!)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Cephylus
Member Avatar
Torando of Terror
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
I guess that there'd be a clash since I have arboreal dromaeosaurs as well :D ... which group will survive?

And also I'm definately having arboreal mammals for this project, maybe civet like ones?
Spoiler: click to toggle
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
dialforthedevil
Member Avatar
Frumentarii Administrator

maybe primates could evolve and are hunted by the dromaesaurs forcing the primates to use cunning to survive thus leading to sapience
Please come visit A Scientfic Fantasy http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/3433014/1/

ALSO!!! JOIN THE NEW RPG SITE!!! FOR ALL MEMBERS!!! IM GOING TO RUN MA GLOBAL SIMULATORS THERE!!! http://s4.zetaboards.com/jasonguppy/index/

Join the Campaign to save minotaurs from extinction!!! (include this in your signature to show your support!)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Cephylus
Member Avatar
Torando of Terror
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Well I have large arboreal predatory dromaeosaurs as the analogue of large jungle felids and also a descendent of the avimimids (an idea from Johnfaa) but there are also many arboreal mammals in this project.

And yeah, the Ice Ages, the Eocene-Oligocene cooloff and other smaller exinction events gave the mammals some footholds and mammals diversified far more than their Mesozoic ancestors. I'm even planning a small browser...
Spoiler: click to toggle
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
dialforthedevil
Member Avatar
Frumentarii Administrator

could the small browser be an oreodont :D i love those little guys :D :D
Please come visit A Scientfic Fantasy http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/3433014/1/

ALSO!!! JOIN THE NEW RPG SITE!!! FOR ALL MEMBERS!!! IM GOING TO RUN MA GLOBAL SIMULATORS THERE!!! http://s4.zetaboards.com/jasonguppy/index/

Join the Campaign to save minotaurs from extinction!!! (include this in your signature to show your support!)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Cephylus
Member Avatar
Torando of Terror
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Okay some more specific thingys about dinosaurs:

- Maniraptorans are the most successful, common and widespread group in this world. Maniraptorans range from tiny honey feeders to gigantic pseudo-tyrannosaurs and megaherbivore therizinosaurs.
- Tyrannosaurs survived and fair pretty well in this world, some retaining their position as apex predators, but their size greatly diminished and few weigh over a ton.
- Titanosaurs managed to survive the extinction and managed to diversify in Africa, evolving into large herbivores and omnivores but they are tiny compared to their extinct relatives.
- Hardrosaurs are the most common group of browsing megaherbivores. Some hardrosaurs have 'hooves' in which the middle digits fused to gether and other digits became vestigial.
- Ankylosaurs were almost wiped out but a strain of nodosaurs hold on as omnivores in South America and Australia.
- Ceratopsids are another successful group. Chasmosaurine ceratopsians are all wiped off but psittacosaurs, leptoceratoscids and protoceratopsids evolved into large and small herbivores/ omnivores/ carnivores and fill various niches across the globe except the poles.
- Neodryosaurs are also present. These small to middle sized dinosaurs usually fill herbivore and omnivore niches
- A group of small ornithischians evolved armor at the end of Eocene. THey later became larger to replace Ankylosaurs in the Americas, evolving into middle sized omnivores and herbivores. All of them lack bony clubs or spikes
- Heterodont hypercarnivorous quadruped ornithischians are common in the Southern Hemisphere; they are the first ornithischians to break the therapod monopoly in carnivores. The ceratopsians also evolve to be carnivores some time later.
Spoiler: click to toggle
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Cephylus
Member Avatar
Torando of Terror
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
1. Primates do evolve in my project as arboreal carnivore/ omnivores but they have raccoon intelligence and looks like a raccoon or small feline so I doubt them evolving sapience....
2. I love oreodonts too!! :D THere won't be true oreodonts, mind you but a group of similar ungualtes.... most herbivorous mammals will evolve from this group. I'm planning on cursorial goat-like animals and large tapir-like animals evolving from this group I haven't named all the mammalian groups yet so I welcome any help on those latin names...
Spoiler: click to toggle
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Toad of Spades
Member Avatar
Clorothod
 *  *  *  *  *  *
I really like this one. I have a few questions too.

Where do notosuchians reside? Are they everywhere, or are they limited to certain continents?

Did the penguin-like ocean dinosaurs evolve from maniraptorans?

Do any non-coelurosaur theropods still exist?

What do the carnivorous ceraptosians look like? Are they quadrupedal predators with big sharp beaks, or something else?

What differences in fauna does Australia's isolation from the rest of the continents produce?
Edited by Toad of Spades, Aug 5 2010, 01:28 PM.
Sorry Link, I don't give credit. Come back when you're a little...MMMMMM...Richer.

Bread is an animal and humans are %90 aluminum.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pando
Member Avatar
Obey or I'll send you to the moon
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Woohoo for Notosuchians!

Why don't you make Mosasaurs go extinct during the Oligocene cooling? Sea life perished and I doubt any large marine reptile would survive.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Alternative Evolution · Next Topic »
Add Reply